Category Bs v Terrors - Boxing Day plus 1

[Trackdaybob]

Another spineless, tactically inept performance against a glorified pub team when thousands of Arabs have spent good money to come along

[Kyle]

As I say AM, I'm not one of those calling for his head, I'm just making what I believe is justifiable criticism.

Can't speak for anyone else but I've never called St Johnstone, in this thread or any other, a team of cloggers.

Check the reply after yours

A huge number of delusionals in the United support.

[mizfit]

Absolute Heads gone from the Category B team here.

[lampshade]

Plan b ! Glorified pub team beat you 5 out of the last six games ! What a muppet

[SaintSam]

Can see why Dundee United fans are frustrated about the result yesterday. Beating Celtic then losing to a team below them in the league would be incredibly frustrating for us if it were Saints in the same position. Jackie McNamara is taking Dundee United as far as he can in the league. Even if United had won yesterday, nobody is going to challenge Celtic for this league title. They may not win it by a 20+ point margin this season but they will win it and I would be surprised to see them move from the top between now and May. Expecting more of your team - i.e. a title challenge - is just not going to happen. The best teams like United and Aberdeen can hope for is second or third. If McNamara achieves that this season, he has done well.

Few observations about yesterday and it does just go to show how differently people see the same match. Ciftci is by far United's best player. He is wonderful to watch and very difficult to play against. He is consistently the one player I fear when we play United. Not GMS or Armstrong who do not cope well with the physicality of our team. The ball sticks to him like he has a magnet in his boot and we struggle to get it off him. The problem lies in the lack of support around him. He was holding the ball up exceptionally well yesterday, sometimes holding off two or three Saints players but there was nobody making the run for him or getting close enough to him for the pass. No wonder he gets so frustrated.

I actually thought United competed so much more yesterday than they did in May and looked more capable of beating us than they did in the final. I didn't really see where a goal was going to come from as the game wore on but we are not a team of quitters. The team spirit never more apparent than the way the whole team celebrated with Millar after his goal. For all the talent United possess, I think they fundamentally lack the fight and spirit we have in abundance. I credit Tommy Wright with that, I think he is a phenomenal manager. It's not a failure on McNamara's part that his team lack that. TW is the first manager in my time supporting Saints that I feel is able to inspire players to be better than they otherwise could be. It's pretty incredible.

Going forward we really have earned the right to believe we can take a good number of points from the next two games. To have taken 6 out of 6 from games against ICT and Dundee United is probably more than any of us Saints fans probably thought possible, even after our form picked up.

[Weesiecodal]

Groundhog Day again

Another spineless, tactically inept performance against a glorified pub team when thousands of Arabs have spent good money to come along

I was well hacked off again yesterday, and speaking to many arabs in the pubs of perth and dundee last night I think the tide of Arab opinion is starting to turn against Jackie Mac.

He needs to demonstrate that he can learn from his mistakes, and so far i'm not convinced that he can.

You, my good man, are a complete foamer.

Away back to united mad where you belong before your post count gets into double figures

[ArabFC]

Few observations about yesterday and it does just go to show how differently people see the same match. Ciftci is by far United's best player. He is wonderful to watch and very difficult to play against. He is consistently the one player I fear when we play United. Not GMS or Armstrong who do not cope well with the physicality of our team.

I don't really buy this. Anderson and Wright may well be industrious, but as far as centre backs go, they ain't all that big. And the rest of the St Johnstone team yesterday was pretty small too. I wouldn't say St Johnstone are any more physical in approach either, than St Mirren or Celtic or Inverness for example.

[Gibby82]

You, my good man, are a complete foamer.

Away back to united mad where you belong before your post count gets into double figures

To be fair to the United Mad throbbers, they're giving the team that pumped us in the Scottish Cup final a little more credit by referring to them as 'glorified juniors'.

[peeeel]

Any United fan "turning against JMac" is a fucking mouth breather and has delusions of grandeur.

Since JMacs arrival, we've built a young exciting team, turned Tannadice into one of the most difficult grounds in the country to visit, became debt free, reached a cup final, sit 2nd in the league, seen United win 50% of JMacs games(Which is ridiculous btw) still in both cups and without doubt seen some of the best football United have played in my lifetime.

I'll just leave a few previous managers names here:

Brewster-win ratio 10%

Chisholm-win ratio 27.8%

McCall-win ratio 30.8%

Smith-win ratio 31.3%

Just to highlight JMacs good work further.

Jim McLean- win ratio 48.1%

and

JMac- win ratio 49.4%

[Widge]

To be fair to the United Mad throbbers, they're giving the team that pumped us in the Scottish Cup final a little more credit by referring to them as 'glorified juniors'.

I saw that one when I had a wee peek at it. Apparently our back line is junior standard. Aye ok then....

[ArabFC]

Just to highlight JMacs good work further.

Jim McLean- win ratio 48.1%

and

JMac- win ratio 49.4%

Which only goes to show how utterly meaningless some stats are.

I don't want him sacked - sure a lot of his decisions piss me off, but then, I can only imagine how much I'd be crying with Peter Houston still in charge.

[Granny Danger]

Any United fan "turning against JMac" is a fucking mouth breather and has delusions of grandeur.

I assume your not suggesting that we are not allowed to criticise him though.

[Weesiecodal]

Which only goes to show how utterly meaningless some stats are.

I don't want him sacked - sure a lot of his decisions piss me off, but then, I can only imagine how much I'd be crying with Peter Houston still in charge.

What's meaningless about the stats? They show that JMac has won more games than Jim McLean.....???

I can't say a lot of his decisions piss me off. I don't understand some of his decisions, but that's not to say they are wrong.

I WAS pissed off with him yesterday for not taking Morris off though, and it had an impact on the game.

I think he's done a fantastic job at united. He came in when we had a team that houston felt he could do nothing with, and he has achieved plenty.

I would have been happy with a top 6 finish last season. Who would ever have thought at the start of last season that we would get to the scottish cup final?

And here we are this season sitting in the top 3, having beaten celtic, and had a very impressive home run of wins.

We might not be bonny to watch at times, but we are getting the results, and with the young bunch of lads we have, inconsistency is a given. Even Ciftci, who is a brilliant talent, is still just a young laddie who will improve as he matures

[ArabFC]

What's meaningless about the stats? They show that JMac has won more games than Jim McLean.....???

Yes. A stat shows a figure, a fact maybe. What does this stat it mean? Pretty much diddly-squat.

Alex McLeish had a 70% win ratio with Scotland in qualifiers. Does that mean that he is the greatest Scotland manager of all time? No.

[peeeel]

I assume your not suggesting that we are not allowed to criticise him though.

No of course not, I'd say there was a big difference from critcising him and turning against him. He's a young manager not learning from his mistakes, that is worthy of criticism. His overall management is not worthy of criticism or "turning against" him.

[Granny Danger]

Just watched the highlights, being in the North stand I didn't have a great view of any of the goals.

Ours: determination by Butcher, credit to the lad.

St Johnstone's first: terrible marking, similar to the non-marking of Armstrong for our second on Sunday.

St Johnstone's second: Rankin was awful, just gave up.

I thought at the time Rado had a good game, he gets a lot of undeserved stick from Arabs (and some deserved stick) but two cracking saves and not at fault for either goal.

[ArabFC]

Just watched the highlights, being in the North stand I didn't have a great view of any of the goals.

Ours: determination by Butcher, credit to the lad.

St Johnstone's first: terrible marking, similar to the non-marking of Armstrong for our second on Sunday.

St Johnstone's second: Rankin was awful, just gave up.

I thought at the time Rado had a good game, he gets a lot of undeserved stick from Arabs (and some deserved stick) but two cracking saves and not at fault for either goal.

Rado just can't kick the feckin ball. Its embarrassing how bad he is at it!

[Weesiecodal]

Yes. A stat shows a figure, a fact maybe. What does this stat it mean? Pretty much diddly-squat.

Alex McLeish had a 70% win ratio with Scotland in qualifiers. Does that mean that he is the greatest Scotland manager of all time? No.

Dearie me! I don't think anyone is suggesting that Jackie Mac is the greatest United manager of all time, which is the implication you've just made. But he certainly has had a very positive impact on our club. He's got them playing a better style of football, he has the belief that they can play well and beat anyone on their day. The only thing that's lacking is consistency.

You can't compare the two managers because they aren't starting from the same base. Jim McLean was allowed to bully and dictate to players. He was able to sign them on long term contracts and tie them in, they were allowed to withhold wages when the players played shite etc. it's a whole different era now.

These days, players have bloody rights ....grrrr

In fact, playing devils advocate, if you followed that line of thinking , you could argue that Jackie Mac is a better manager than Jim McLean......... Just sayin

[Granny Danger]

Thank Christ for ArabFC. If it wasn't for his subjective, myopic pish the United threads would be a lot less interesting.

Apropo nothing, I was sitting towards the West side of the North Stand yesterday and there were some total rockets there including more than one shouting for McNamara's head. I thought at the end of the game there was going to be a punch up. These guys should start supporting the likes of Celtic or Chelsea where they would be amongst other fans who thought they had a divine right to win every game.

[Jamie_B]

Some United fans have stupid expectations sometimes and a massively over inflated sense of what a Dundee United team should be all about.

Met an Arab in the pub pre match who was confident of a win because we'd have no-one up front. I told him Maclean was back and starting. His response? "ooooh no, I'm so scared." United fans would rather have sand dancers with shite haircuts (GMS, Armstrong) than guys like Millar and Maclean who may not be as flashy, but are generally very, very effective.

Same goes for the zoomers on United Mad, who give some of our WAP lot a run for their money. Criticising our defence as "pub league standard" when they've got Dillon back there is hilarious.

Delighted with that win yesterday - just didn't see us scoring until we got the equaliser. Lead at half time flattered United, but equally we'd had very little clear cut. United's defending went out the window from the first Saints goal til the end.