The 2016 US Presidential Election

[Peppino Impastato]

It's far too complex a question to answer in a few sentences.   The West is responsible for the existence of IS in the first place so there is that.  The people we support are doing just as much damage in aleppo killing just as many people and using chemical weapons just our media don't report that.   The Russians were invited by the legitimate government of Syria,  we were not..  I'm not happy about us being there at all.

 

This is easily the most dangerous moment for the world since the Cuba new missile crisis,  if we manage to avoid war with Russia over this it will be a miracle,  and putin will have to be the peacemaker as our leaders have no interest in peace.  Do you not wondrous Why?   Does that nt make you Worried? 

[banana]

LULZ

[DeeTillEhDeh]

It's far too complex a question to answer in a few sentences.   The West is responsible for the existence of IS in the first place so there is that.  The people we support are doing just as much damage in aleppo killing just as many people and using chemical weapons just our media don't report that.   The Russians were invited by the legitimate government of Syria,  we were not..  I'm not happy about us being there at all.

 

This is easily the most dangerous moment for the world since the Cuba new missile crisis,  if we manage to avoid war with Russia over this it will be a miracle,  and putin will have to be the peacemaker as our leaders have no interest in peace.  Do you not wondrous Why?   Does that nt make you Worried? 

Do you want me to explain about Wahabbism - a concept that goes back to at least the 18th century - long before the West intervened in the Middle East.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

LULZ

Aye - Trump doesn't have any emails deleted because he doesn't use email.

I bet he knows what a shredder is though . . .

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Over the course of decades, Donald Trump’s companies have systematically destroyed or hidden thousands of emails,digital records and paper documents demanded in official proceedings, often in defiance of court orders. These tactics—exposed by a Newsweek review of thousands of pages of court filings, judicial orders and affidavits from an array of court cases—have enraged judges, prosecutors, opposing lawyers and the many ordinary citizens entangled in litigation with Trump.

The first example is the Justice Department lawsuit in the early 1970s. In that case, "the Trumps ignored the government’s discovery demands, even though court procedure in a civil or criminal case requires each side to produce relevant documents in a timely manner." The Trumps stonewalled, delayed, and refused to hand over anything.

Finally, under subpoena, Trump appeared for a short deposition. When asked about the missing documents, he made a shocking admission: The Trumps had been destroying their corporate records for the previous six months and had no document-retention program. They had conducted no inspections to determine which files might have been sought in the discovery requests or might otherwise be related to the case. Instead, in order to “save space,” Trump testified, officials with his company had been tossing documents into the shredderand garbage.

The reason this is shocking is because Trump goes around saying that Clinton deleted 33,000 emails after getting a subpoena and that if she did that in the private sector she would be in jail.

So this is one more example of Trump the master projectionist: Whatever he accuses his opponent of is typically something he does himself.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Are early votes in America counted before election night? It's just I keep hearing reports of Clinton/Trump being however many votes up in certain areas?

There are also reports that there has been a large increase in Hispanics voting early - one would think not good news for Trump.

[welshbairn]

2 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

There are also reports that there has been a large increase in Hispanics voting early - one would think not good news for Trump.

And apathy from the African American vote, which could balance it out. I'm hoping the money and time the Democrats have spent on the ground will swing it. Trump's just spent his cash preaching to the converted.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

It's far too complex a question to answer in a few sentences.   The West is responsible for the existence of IS in the first place so there is that.  The people we support are doing just as much damage in aleppo killing just as many people and using chemical weapons just our media don't report that.   The Russians were invited by the legitimate government of Syria,  we were not..  I'm not happy about us being there at all.

 

This is easily the most dangerous moment for the world since the Cuba new missile crisis,  if we manage to avoid war with Russia over this it will be a miracle,  and putin will have to be the peacemaker as our leaders have no interest in peace.  Do you not wondrous Why?   Does that nt make you Worried? 

Agree with the first paragraph, but seriously doubt this ever goes nuclear or leads to to direct NATO vs Russia confrontation as that would need Russia to attack actual Turkish territory for treaty obligations to kick in and there's no way they are going to do that. The Americans have been backing off since the fiasco of bombing the wrong side at Deir Ezor as they have a lot less on the line than the Russians do, who are not helping Assad out of the goodness of their hearts and the cause of the socialist inspired secularism of the Baath party, but because a Qatar to Europe gas pipeline would be very bad news for Gazprom. The Turks, Saudis and Qataris have their own agendas and don't need the Americans to tell them what to do and pull their strings.

[Savage Henry]

Do you want me to explain about Wahabbism - a concept that goes back to at least the 18th century - long before the West intervened in the Middle East.

He has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

Anyone who says the West created Islamic State had read one too many Alex Jones websites. I have no problems with anyone criticising Western foreign policy when it comes to the Middle East. However, when it goes so far as saying IS is a Western/Mossad creation, it becomes clear that are miles out of their depth.

[LongTimeLurker]

What does Alex Jones have to do with any of this? If Saddam Hussein was still in power in Baghdad there would be no ISIS right now. Secular Baathist regimes like his and the Assads in Syria were the bulwark against a further spread of the Islamic fundamentalism of the Saudis, but who had most of the oil that keeps the global economy ticking over and who needed to keep buying weapons by the billion from the west to help keep the petrodollar cycle flowing?

[Savage Henry]

What does Alex Jones have to do with any of this? If Saddam Hussein was still in power in Baghdad there would be no ISIS right now. Secular Baathist regimes like his and the Assads in Syria were the bulwark against a further spread of the Islamic fundamentalism of the Saudis, but who had most of the oil that keeps the global economy ticking over and who needed to keep buying weapons by the billion from the west to keep the petrodollar cycle flowing?

I have no doubt your intentions are in the best possible place, but with respect, you have no idea how wrong your claims are.

IS pre dates Saddam Hussein by decades. It didn't just spring to life in 2003. And even if it did, the Arab Spring of 2011 would have permitted IS to develop into a serious actor.

[LongTimeLurker]

And Alex Jones? Where does he fit in again? If Dubya hadn't invaded Iraq, events in 2011 would have unfolded completely differently. Beyond that it's funny how Al Jazeera and the western media went gaga over Egypt and Libya giving it wall to wall 24 hours coverage, but didn't give the same sympathetic coverage to the demonstrations in Bahrain and the Shia populated portion of Saudi Arabia, if spreading democracy was really the name of the game.

[welshbairn]

4 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

And Alex Jones? Where does he fit in again? If Dubya hadn't invaded Iraq, events in 2011 would have unfolded completely differently. Beyond that it's funny how Al Jazeera and the western media went gaga over Egypt and Libya giving it wall to wall 24 hours coverage, but didn't give the same sympathetic coverage to the demonstrations in Bahrain and the Shia populated portion of Saudi Arabia, if spreading democracy was really the name of the game.

If Dubya hadn't invaded Iraq, destroyed all its institutions including the army, police, and state run enterprises, and sacked all Baathist party members who had to join just to be a school teacher, in the expectation that freedom loving liberated Iraqis, aided by Halliburton, would embrace free enterprise and magically rebuild a state with the help of Republican Party loyalist 25 year olds on their gap year, then it is very possible that IS wouldn't have emerged. But Syria and Iraq would have blown up eventually, they always do when you have a minority sect imposing rule. IS came into being because they thought Al Qaida were too soft, aided substantially by jobless Sunni officers and men from Saddam's army who were angry at their communities being bullied by the new Shia rulers.

Western liberals like myself first thought there was great hope in the Arab Spring, deluded probably just as much as the neocons who mainly had the best of motives for Iraq. Tunisia's done best but with serious security problems, Egypt was a tragedy all on its own, Libya was going to be a shitfest with or without Western interference, but we could have put some effort into what happened after. Bahrain has kept its brutal dictatorship going with Saudi help, the Shia minority in Saudi Arabia have no chance for the foreseeable future. It's possible that Assad could have put down the Syrian rebellion if the rebels hadn't had outside assistance, as his Dad did in Hama in 82 killing around 20 to 40 thousand, which would be have been a godsend given the current tally. But the revolt this time was much more widespread, so who knows. What's for sure is that the Syrian people's lives haven't improved by having Russians, Australians, Lebanese, Iranians, British, Belgians, Chechnyans, Canadians, French, Germans, Dutch, Jordanians, Qataris, Saudis, UAE, Turkish, and Americans involved.

Not sure what my point was now but I'll post it anyway.

P.S. Nothing makes sense in the Middle East unless you put it in the context of a civil war by proxy between Saudi/Sunnis and Iran/Shia. The US v Russia thing is a sideline.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

If Dubya hadn't invaded Iraq, destroyed all its institutions including the army, police, and state run enterprises, and sacked all Baathist party members who had to join just to be a school teacher, in the expectation that freedom loving liberated Iraqis, aided by Halliburton, would embrace free enterprise and magically rebuild a state with the help of Republican Party loyalist 25 year olds on their gap year, then it is very possible that IS wouldn't have emerged. But Syria and Iraq would have blown up eventually, they always do when you have a minority sect imposing rule. IS came into being because they thought Al Qaida were too soft, aided substantially by jobless Sunni officers and men from Saddam's army who were angry at their communities being bullied by the new Shia rulers.

Western liberals like myself first thought there was great hope in the Arab Spring, deluded probably just as much as the neocons who mainly had the best of motives for Iraq. Tunisia's done best but with serious security problems, Egypt was a tragedy all on its own, Libya was going to be a shitfest with or without Western interference, but we could have put some effort into what happened after. Bahrain has kept its brutal dictatorship going with Saudi help, the Shia minority in Saudi Arabia have no chance for the foreseeable future. It's possible that Assad could have put down the Syrian rebellion if the rebels hadn't had outside assistance, as his Dad did in Hama in 82 killing around 20 to 40 thousand, which would be have been a godsend given the current tally. But the revolt this time was much more widespread, so who knows. What's for sure is that the Syrian people's lives haven't improved by having Russians, Australians, Lebanese, Iranians, British, Belgians, Chechnyans, Canadians, French, Germans, Dutch, Jordanians, Qataris, Saudis, UAE, Turkish, and Americans involved.

Not sure what my point was now but I'll post it anyway.

P.S. Nothing makes sense in the Middle East unless you put it in the context of a civil war by proxy between Saudi/Sunnis and Iran/Shia. The US v Russia thing is a sideline.

IS existed long before the First Gulf War.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

IS existed long before the First Gulf War.

Not sure what you mean. There's been people wanting a Caliphate ruling over the Muslim world (whether they wanted it or not) since well before the collapse of the Ottoman empire, but I thought Daesh emerged from Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia (Iraq) along with Baathist Sunnis in around 2006.

[banana]

As Reptillary continues to fade, Trump has stabalised around the low to mid 30s for the last few days according to Nate Vegetable, now at 35.2% chance of winning. Now at Trump 48% v 42.6% in the LA Times daily poll.

[Peppino Impastato]

Is were started in 1999 by zarqawi, not 'decades' before Iraq.   They were formed as most groups of that type are in response to 7srael and western foreign policy in the middle East.   And I'm the one out of my depth apparently,  salaafism and wahaabism are basically a century old but saying that means is are that old is like saying pira are a thousand years old because the ideology is.  Nonsense. 

 

As for only clowns think we created isis well John pilger said it in the article I posted two pages ago, we didn't literally create them our actions did indirectly, we are responsible,  same old thing as the mujahideen in the 80s becoming Al qaeda,  similar to the contras too. And we have been funding and arming groups directly linked to, and fighting literally alongside them for years as we practice the same old failed cold war doctrine of my enemies enemy is my friend,  that and the fact that the last thing we want is stable governments in the middle east.

 

We are being lied tomb your own press and government even day,  two weeks ago there was hysteria in the news at a Russian convoymsailing though British waters, whipped up a frenzy the defence sec saying they will be monitored every inch of the way etc,  may saying same day that we have to sop Russian atrocities (this is not diplomatic language bow very dangerous,  and we ignore,  deny and our media doesn't report similar atrocities carried out by our allies the 'rebels' which we would call insurgents in a different context), the UK had known about that Russian convoy for fucking MONTHS it's officially documented nd 100% routine, this is pure propaganda to whip, up anti Russia sentiment.  We are agitating and preparing for war with Russia and everybody with a brain should be demanding to know WHY?   This is so serious I can't understand why people aren't aware of it we are sleepwalking into ww3 being dragged there by mendacious warmongers min dowing St and the white house. 

[Peppino Impastato]

Remember the pish last year about good rebels and bad rebels and our government saying it's okay our guns are only going to the good rebels that's site Al nusra and daesh and all then other groups we arm are directly linked,  the Syria opposition is miniscule it's foreign fighters almost all Islamic fundamentalists of one degree ad that's the ideology we're supposedly fighting a 'war on terror' against its fucking nonsense why people are not in the streets demanding answers to this I have no, idea, probably watching X factor

[Zetterlund]

20 minutes ago, banana said:

As Reptillary continues to fade, Trump has stabalised around the low to mid 30s for the last few days according to Nate Vegetable, now at 35.2% chance of winning. Now at Trump 48% v 42.6% in the LA Times daily poll.

[welshbairn]

How do you accidentally type 7raeli?