English football - over rated?

[FuzzyAffro]

Good post. They do get a lot of money, but they could certainly be spending it more efficiently, in the case of City and Chelsea. Arsenal are very careful with their money, but probably too careful, especially when you add in the fact that they either balls up the group stage and draw a top team before heroically existing the tournament, or balls up a knockout tie that they really should win.

The last "good year" was probably when Chelsea won it, 2011-12. Although that's arguable, as the other English sides had a bit of a nightmare - both Manchester clubs into the Europa League, and Arsenal with their customary horror show in the round of 16. Year before that was less arguable - all four sides into the knockout stages, one in the final, two in the quarters and, once again, Arsenal in the round of 16.

After that though, it's not been great, but think it's important to look at the results in isolation. Forget City, they've been rank pretty much every time they've been in the tournament, which is ridiculous given the money they've spent.

2012/13

Man Utd put out by Real Madrid after winning their group. Pretty unlucky to get Madrid thanks to Dortmund's fantastic group stage, and probably pretty unlucky not to go through anyway in a tight game. Arsenal only went out on away goals to eventual winners Bayern. Chelsea were absolutely rotten, into the Europa League, but they did win it, which is still "good".

2013/14

Could be argued to be a good but not great year for English sides. All into the knockout stages. Man City pumped by Barcelona, Arsenal once again fall foul of Bayern. United then also get put out by Bayern. Chelsea beaten in the semis.

There's a theme going through all those exits though - most of them are from sides who are hardly paupers in comparison. Bayern are a terrifically well run club, and extremely well off. Real and Barcelona aren't exactly poor, and hold the rest of the Spanish clubs to ransom. They've definitely had some bad results over the past few years, and they're on a dip in Europe for sure, but they've hardly been crisis results. There should be a couple of sides from England in the competition at the quarter final stage IMO, but should they always be expected to reach the semi finals? Are any of them really better at the moment than Barcelona/Real Madrid/Bayern? Should they be?

Barca, Real and Bayern are the three best teams in the world right now. I don't think England's performances in Europe recently have actually been that bad, just a few of their big clubs rebuilding just now. The likes of Man City you can't expect them to put out Barca, Barca are a better team that would be an upset.

[Tamdunk]

Good post. They do get a lot of money, but they could certainly be spending it more efficiently, in the case of City and Chelsea. Arsenal are very careful with their money, but probably too careful, especially when you add in the fact that they either balls up the group stage and draw a top team before heroically existing the tournament, or balls up a knockout tie that they really should win.

The last "good year" was probably when Chelsea won it, 2011-12. Although that's arguable, as the other English sides had a bit of a nightmare - both Manchester clubs into the Europa League, and Arsenal with their customary horror show in the round of 16. Year before that was less arguable - all four sides into the knockout stages, one in the final, two in the quarters and, once again, Arsenal in the round of 16.

After that though, it's not been great, but think it's important to look at the results in isolation. Forget City, they've been rank pretty much every time they've been in the tournament, which is ridiculous given the money they've spent.

2012/13

Man Utd put out by Real Madrid after winning their group. Pretty unlucky to get Madrid thanks to Dortmund's fantastic group stage, and probably pretty unlucky not to go through anyway in a tight game. Arsenal only went out on away goals to eventual winners Bayern. Chelsea were absolutely rotten, into the Europa League, but they did win it, which is still "good".

2013/14

Could be argued to be a good but not great year for English sides. All into the knockout stages. Man City pumped by Barcelona, Arsenal once again fall foul of Bayern. United then also get put out by Bayern. Chelsea beaten in the semis.

There's a theme going through all those exits though - most of them are from sides who are hardly paupers in comparison. Bayern are a terrifically well run club, and extremely well off. Real and Barcelona aren't exactly poor, and hold the rest of the Spanish clubs to ransom. They've definitely had some bad results over the past few years, and they're on a dip in Europe for sure, but they've hardly been crisis results. There should be a couple of sides from England in the competition at the quarter final stage IMO, but should they always be expected to reach the semi finals? Are any of them really better at the moment than Barcelona/Real Madrid/Bayern? Should they be?

With the money of the top English clubs there should definitely be one at a level similar to the big 3. Chelsea are probably closest, but they're not really near that level.

[heedthebaa]

Yes its overrated, right now its fucking gash. Still, the scotch obsession with it is still the same

[Tamdunk]

Yes its overrated, right now its fucking gash. Still, the scotch obsession with it is still the same

Think that's a bit unfair considering our national broadcasters plough all their resources into English football, leaving the Scottish game with some scraps.

[heedthebaa]

The scotch game is between dire and teargas, be thankful for the scraps. More people in this country watch MOTD than Sportscene, without a healthy Old Firm its even more of a f**k up

[Raidernation]

The scotch game is between dire and teargas, be thankful for the scraps. More people in this country watch MOTD than Sportscene, without a healthy Old Firm its even more of a f**k up

f**k off. Just not fucking true

[1320Lichtie]

Yes its overrated, right now its fucking gash. Still, the scotch obsession with it is still the same

Well that's just not true

I think fans all over Europe will be having this conversation with the English calling it the best league in the world.

Think football fans all over the world will discuss what league, be it Spanish/English/German/Italian they think is best, worst, most over rated etc. We'd be having the exact same conversation if la Liga or the Bundesliga was constantly called the best by pundits.

Your post is a bit of a riddy

Also when you compare our league to other countries of a similar size it's actually not bad at all, this is blatantly obvious to everybody who is not a moron

[Ira Gaines]

heedthebaa, on 26 Apr 2015 - 12:32, said:

[nsr]

The scotch game

Is that some sort of whisky-drinking contest? If so, count me in.

[throbber]

Yes its overrated, right now its fucking gash. Still, the scotch obsession with it is still the same

You are a dick head

[RussellAnderson]

The premiership is a lot of shite.

I give the english game less credit than its due tbh but I can't stand the navel-gazing in the english media. Worse, I don't understand how people buy into it so wholeheartedly. I know Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea "fans" who watch every game on telly, buy the strips, have fully formed opinions on "their" team and talk in "we" and "our" and all that shite that you just can't do if you haven't been to a game once, let alone regularly. If I go a couple of months without seeing the Dons (such as times this season because of uni commitments, finances, etc) I begin to feel like I don't deserve to be feeling glad that we've won. These guys buy into all the things about football that I find least appealing.

My conclusion is very self-righteous: They don't enjoy football properly. They'll never be in a bounce, they'll never feel what its like to see their city turn out for a cup final and win. They'll never suffer like I do!!

This is a very deep seated emotion. I was one of three proper Dons in my year at school. There was one Rangers fan and the rest had English teams. "Scottish Football is shite". No mate, the TV show is pish, but the actual football is as engrossing and entertaining as any, so long as you invest something in the team. The more you put in, the better it gets.

I don't even like european football very much. Most leagues are a one horse race and I've got my own one horse race to watch here thank you very much.

[1320Lichtie]

The premiership is a lot of shite.

I give the english game less credit than its due tbh but I can't stand the navel-gazing in the english media. Worse, I don't understand how people buy into it so wholeheartedly. I know Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea "fans" who watch every game on telly, buy the strips, have fully formed opinions on "their" team and talk in "we" and "our" and all that shite that you just can't do if you haven't been to a game once, let alone regularly. If I go a couple of months without seeing the Dons (such as times this season because of uni commitments, finances, etc) I begin to feel like I don't deserve to be feeling glad that we've won. These guys buy into all the things about football that I find least appealing.

My conclusion is very self-righteous: They don't enjoy football properly. They'll never be in a bounce, they'll never feel what its like to see their city turn out for a cup final and win. They'll never suffer like I do!!

This is a very deep seated emotion. I was one of three proper Dons in my year at school. There was one Rangers fan and the rest had English teams. "Scottish Football is shite". No mate, the TV show is pish, but the actual football is as engrossing and entertaining as any, so long as you invest something in the team. The more you put in, the better it gets.

I don't even like european football very much. Most leagues are a one horse race and I've got my own one horse race to watch here thank you very much.

Very good post, I don't think the EPL is shite tho, I quite enjoy it, very well said on everything else though.

[Ira Gaines]

1320Lichtie, on 29 Apr 2015 - 00:28, said:

Very good post, I don't think the EPL is shite tho, I quite enjoy it, very well said on everything else though.

It really isn't though. It's the same self-important "I support my local team!" bullshit I've seen a thousand times over. People have their reasons for supporting a team. Having a hysterical bitchfit over it doesn't make someone a better football supporter.

[RussellAnderson]

Very good post, I don't think the EPL is shite tho, I quite enjoy it, very well said on everything else though.

Aye I said its better than I give it credit for, but I hold it almost solely responsible for the "state-of-scottish-football" and I get angry watching it, usually because it comes along with bloody Jonathon Pearce bellowing "You don't get this anywhere else in the world!! This is the English Premier League!!" as if this is the first time a team in 12th has beaten a team in 3rd ever.

This is then followed by Robbie Savage highlighting a "cultured" foreign centre half (someone like Marcos Rojo) playing "stunning" diagonal balls, one of which assists a goal but at least one of the others misses completely ("ok, it doesn't come off here but it shows he had the right idea", "Yes and he was doing that all game Gary"). This is followed by a series of hoofs up the park by an English "clogger" centre half (usually playing for Stoke or West Ham) as an example of how they can't build from the back. They're both fuckin hoofing it up the park, its just the better team had a better striker on the end of it to convert the chance.

Its laughable how much unnecessary analysis goes on and depending on what mood I'm in, I'll either mock it or just turn it off.

[throbber]

What Russel Anderson talks about really is more of a problem with society as a hole in this day and age - I wasn't about in the 70's and 80's etc fair enough but the interest Scottish football had over there wasn't because the standard of football was better but because there was no other option. As people we have sadly turned into consumers, Sky TV have got so big and most people now prefer to watch the games in the pub or at home due to the convenience and to not have to pay extra or get cold.

The premiership has benefited greatly from this plus with the takeovers of the likes of City and Chelsea with money that we can only dream of it has sucked a lot of the morality out of the game. The tragic thing i find is the guys i went to school with claiming to support Man City because they always had a soft spot for them coz of Oasis, its utterly pathetic what sort of happiness can people up here genuinely take in seeing Man City or Chelsea win titles down south? Its basically brainwashing, Sky tv being the only option for most and people sitting down and doing what they're told which really isn't too much of a fault of their own and I'm sure most of us are guilty of following it.

I drifted in and out of Scottish football but follow it more passionately than ever now and think that if people took a deep breath and stepped back and started following their local teams the way football should be it would be a wonderful place to be but can't see that happening any time soon

[1320Lichtie]

What Russel Anderson talks about really is more of a problem with society as a hole in this day and age - I wasn't about in the 70's and 80's etc fair enough but the interest Scottish football had over there wasn't because the standard of football was better but because there was no other option. As people we have sadly turned into consumers, Sky TV have got so big and most people now prefer to watch the games in the pub or at home due to the convenience and to not have to pay extra or get cold.

The premiership has benefited greatly from this plus with the takeovers of the likes of City and Chelsea with money that we can only dream of it has sucked a lot of the morality out of the game. The tragic thing i find is the guys i went to school with claiming to support Man City because they always had a soft spot for them coz of Oasis, its utterly pathetic what sort of happiness can people up here genuinely take in seeing Man City or Chelsea win titles down south? Its basically brainwashing, Sky tv being the only option for most and people sitting down and doing what they're told which really isn't too much of a fault of their own and I'm sure most of us are guilty of following it.

I drifted in and out of Scottish football but follow it more passionately than ever now and think that if people took a deep breath and stepped back and started following their local teams the way football should be it would be a wonderful place to be but can't see that happening any time soon

Good post Throbber.

I like, term used very loosely, Liverpool. I've also been obsessed with Borussia Dortmund since I was a kid.

If they win or lose though I don't get to up or down either way, compare that to Arbroath, I've been in a shitey mood for months now when I think of them, a bad result can ruin my week, if we get beat next week in the play offs I'll be feeling shite about football all summer

Think some of these EPL fans haven't gave their local team a chance, they don't get the highs and lows and emotional attachments you get, standing in the freezing cold on a rainy day 15 pound out of pocket watching 11 guys play utterly pish most weeks is a miserable experience, so when these 11 guys actually achieve something and there are good times it makes going along all the more special. This applies to armchair OF fans aswell.

I said at the time but I remember watching us in L1 one week getting humped 4-0 by Albion Rovers down in Coatbridge, I'd made the journey in the car as I couldn't make the bus, stone cold sober driving down to Coatbridge full of excitement for some reason on a terrible rainy Novembers day, to get there and watch us get fucking pumped. 8 hours and about £45 out of pocket to watch that.

Few weeks later it was Celtic away, they'd just beaten Barcelona, 8 of the team that played against them had played against us, mind all my mates and me having a conversation about how many goals Celtic would score on the bus. Went down and 1-1 with an 87th minute equaliser. Fucking fantastic feeling that these Man City or Chelsea fans or whatever won't ever get.

I mind when Chelsea won the champions league my Chelsea supporting mate sent me a text with a photo right after it sitting back in his chair with a hint of a smile saying 'yassss'... When Arbroath won the league I was going absolutely fucking mental.

There's no rule about who you can and can't support, at the end of the day I suppose they are supporters as they support the club by buying merchandise etc but there's no way they can get the same feelings from being a fan as people that physically go week in week out can get.

As soon as I have a bairn he's getting dragged along to Gayfield with me. I would hate for him to miss out on some of the amazing feelings I've had as a football fan.

[throbber]

Yeah the Old firm don't help matters in Scotland much either. I grew up near Inverness and everyone was either Rangers or Celtic and usually supported an English team on the side. I like to think its changed a lot as a good few of my pals support Calley and county but a lot of them still follow the Old firm. I always said i supported Man Utd to avoid confrontation but preferred Rangers over the two if i had to pick, probably brought on for my dislike of MON and Chris Sutton among others.

As my situation has changed i now find myself with a season ticket to Easter Road and i very much enjoy myself although don't go about calling myself a fan - gets me out the house now and then, get a few beer with my mates and get time out in the fresh air. i was genuinely gutted when they were knocked out by Falkirk, this was mostly due to me wanting a day out with my mates to Glasgow and a piss up but at least the result effected me personally rather than supporting EPL giants that don't need my support!

[RussellAnderson]

It really isn't though. It's the same self-important "I support my local team!" bullshit I've seen a thousand times over. People have their reasons for supporting a team. Having a hysterical bitchfit over it doesn't make someone a better football supporter.

I have a lot of mates that have zero reason for supporting a team. Their main team, the one they say they support first if you ask them. Zero reason. Other than they won the league when they were nine and making up their mind. I can't understand it, it seems so irrational!

[Raidernation]

I am an Aberdeen supporter, have been for over 40 years now, (pre 1980 I was the ONLY Dons fan at my high school!) and it's the only team I care about. I have no "other" team although I will occasionally look to see how ex Dons are doing elsewhere, I really don't care all that much, certainly not enough to get excited or depressed over.

I've stated why I watch EPL earlier so not going to repeat myself.

[heedthebaa]

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