NotThePars Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Figured I might as well presume most people on here are considering all the polls were overwhelmingly pro-Yes and pro-SNP. So why are you a Scottish nationalist or a Yes voter? I've thought about it quite a lot recently since the fall out from the referendum and the feeling that the Yes campaign has largely maintained it's support base to the extent that another referendum seems inevitable. Been reading quite a few Marxist and left wing analyses of the referendum and I would say my support for independence is centred on the feeling that a socialist or social democratic republic is impossible unless we escape the United Kingdom. Although I don't think the SNP are the party that would take Scotland to the extent on the left I would want they're a means to an end and I can't see large scale redistribution, attacks on the super rich and land reform* unless we escape from Westminster. The other reason I'm a nationalist is because I detest the United Kingdom. Scotland to some extent is complicit in the role of empire but it would be incredibly satisfying to leave the UK and condemn the rUK to irrelevance in world affairs. Seeing the rUK lose it's place on the security council and loss of prestige as well as the economic devastation from our exit and knowing I had a small part in that would be very satisfying IMO. So what makes you a nationalist? A cultural belief in Scotland? Economic factors? A petty GIRFUY to the people who would weep for the end of the union? *i have seen this mentioned a few times by the SNP which is good IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I'm Scottish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Pretty much similar to what you describe. The UK is corrupt, inherently unfair and broken (pretty much beyond all repair). I think an independent Scotland could and would be a lot closer to the kind of society I want to see than the UK is. The referendum and the actions of the establishment and unionist parties during it has hardened me beyond the point of no return though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Its right for Scotland and as the dude above says I'm Scottish. I just want us to be like every other country in the world and always be governed by people who's number one priority is what's best for Scotland. I think we deserve that, and could make a fantastic wee country we could all be proud of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGafraidh Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I used to be a working class died in the wool Labour activist, canvasser, and voter and was the second generation of my family to do so. (My grandfather was a member of the NUM and Labour activist) I grew up in Monklands East (Now Airdrie and Shotts) so at that time it would be laughable to consider anyone other than Labour representing us at Westminster (and later Hollyrood) in hindsight, perhaps I was with the Labour party due to family connections, perhaps I was a sheep but Old Labour was a decent fit for me, New Labour was not! The high point for me was in 2007 with the "things can only get better" campaign, from then we partied until 2am when it was declared that Tony and Cherie had got in at last. Next up was the Yes/Yes campaign where we shared a platform with everyone but the Tories. The Nationalists I met with, consulted with and campaigned with were all decent folks, shared some of the same ideals and were not the bogey men I had believed them to be. Now i don't know if it was because the thrill of the chase had gone (between 1997 to 1999) or maybe it was a sickening of the degradation of the party I once saw part of my identity in slide into "quasi-Tories" but I became ultra-disillusioned with politics and didn't vote between 1999 and 2003. I found myself at the 2003 MSP elections actually researching candidates for the first time and found myself at the eleventh hour doing something I never thought I would do and join the SNP. I ended up helping out Lloyd Quinans failed bid to oust Jack McConnell in Motherwell and Wishaw. Suddenly I had a cause to believe in again, I didn't originally buy into the independence deal, however it was the party that suited me best and they were doing what Labour had promised to do but forgot about when they were in power. I left the UK in 2007 but not after voting in the SNP in where I was living before I left (Glasgow Hillhead) and by the time between the 2003 and 2007 elections I researched fully how we could be better off independent and was fully convinced. Now I just hold the coats and cheer from afar (Just like Sir Sean) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Figured I might as well presume most people on here are considering all the polls were overwhelmingly pro-Yes and pro-SNP. So why are you a Scottish nationalist or a Yes voter? I've thought about it quite a lot recently since the fall out from the referendum and the feeling that the Yes campaign has largely maintained it's support base to the extent that another referendum seems inevitable. Been reading quite a few Marxist and left wing analyses of the referendum and I would say my support for independence is centred on the feeling that a socialist or social democratic republic is impossible unless we escape the United Kingdom. Although I don't think the SNP are the party that would take Scotland to the extent on the left I would want they're a means to an end and I can't see large scale redistribution, attacks on the super rich and land reform* unless we escape from Westminster. The other reason I'm a nationalist is because I detest the United Kingdom. Scotland to some extent is complicit in the role of empire but it would be incredibly satisfying to leave the UK and condemn the rUK to irrelevance in world affairs. Seeing the rUK lose it's place on the security council and loss of prestige as well as the economic devastation from our exit and knowing I had a small part in that would be very satisfying IMO. So what makes you a nationalist? A cultural belief in Scotland? Economic factors? A petty GIRFUY to the people who would weep for the end of the union? *i have seen this mentioned a few times by the SNP which is good IMO. You're reasons for being a nationalist are massively negative, defeatist and frankly weird. If Scotland became independent what would it matter that the rUK lost a seat on the UN or suffered "economic devastation"? What sort of socialist wants other countries to suffer such devastation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Figured I might as well presume most people on here are considering all the polls were overwhelmingly pro-Yes and pro-SNP. So why are you a Scottish nationalist or a Yes voter? I've thought about it quite a lot recently since the fall out from the referendum and the feeling that the Yes campaign has largely maintained it's support base to the extent that another referendum seems inevitable. Been reading quite a few Marxist and left wing analyses of the referendum and I would say my support for independence is centred on the feeling that a socialist or social democratic republic is impossible unless we escape the United Kingdom. Although I don't think the SNP are the party that would take Scotland to the extent on the left I would want they're a means to an end and I can't see large scale redistribution, attacks on the super rich and land reform* unless we escape from Westminster. The other reason I'm a nationalist is because I detest the United Kingdom. Scotland to some extent is complicit in the role of empire but it would be incredibly satisfying to leave the UK and condemn the rUK to irrelevance in world affairs. Seeing the rUK lose it's place on the security council and loss of prestige as well as the economic devastation from our exit and knowing I had a small part in that would be very satisfying IMO. So what makes you a nationalist? A cultural belief in Scotland? Economic factors? A petty GIRFUY to the people who would weep for the end of the union? *i have seen this mentioned a few times by the SNP which is good IMO. Pretty much similar to what you describe. The UK is corrupt, inherently unfair and broken (pretty much beyond all repair). I think an independent Scotland could and would be a lot closer to the kind of society I want to see than the UK is. The referendum and the actions of the establishment and unionist parties during it has hardened me beyond the point of no return though. Pretty much exactly what's been said there. The Westminster system set up in a way that means that it keeps the rich boys in London happy and squeezes some of the most vulnerable sections of society. I want independence because we would have a government who were wholly focussed on the best thing for Scottish people. And the fear-mongering in the final days of the referendum set my beliefs in concrete. I still look back on it and have a properly deep lying anger over it. The worst of it is that it's happening again. These "Most Dangerous Woman In Britain" headlines are being shat out of the same places as before. We were promised that we would be seen on more of a level playing field as London but as soon as a political party here is stepping into a position to absolutely guarantee this would happen everyone in Westminster completely loses their shit. Independence will happen. It may not happen soon. But it will happen in my lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 What sort of socialist wants other countries to suffer such devastation? A bizarre non-sequitur; a genuine socialist wouldn't give a toss about whether certain 'countries' had prosperity or otherwise. That's not even remotely a socialist, class-based frame of reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strathman Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I believe Scotland is a country and should be able to elect it's own government and not have one that another country votes for. I also think that with the best will in the world Scotland cannot be the priority of a Westminster Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 'Scotland cannot be the priority of a Westminster Government' That says it all for me...understandably so, whats best for Scotland doesnt register with the powerbrokers at Westminster if it impinges negatively on their South-east of England power-base. Other than that, I've never felt British in my whole entire life, Scotland is my country and I want it to be run by Scots for the people who live here. I'm certain we'll gain Independence during my lifetime...hopefully sooner, rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 You're reasons for being a nationalist are massively negative, defeatist and frankly weird. If Scotland became independent what would it matter that the rUK lost a seat on the UN or suffered "economic devastation"? What sort of socialist wants other countries to suffer such devastation? Half of me wants independence to see real distributive justice happen on a nationwide scale. The other half of me wants to see the country that's perpetuated this myth of a benign empire and a global force for good lose it's prestige and privileged place in the world that IMO would only devastate the privileged class that have also caused such widespread inequality in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yank Mike Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Been reading quite a few Marxist and left wing analyses of the referendum and I would say my support for independence is centred on the feeling that a socialist or social democratic republic is impossible unless we escape the United Kingdom. Although I don't think the SNP are the party that would take Scotland to the extent on the left I would want they're a means to an end and I can't see large scale redistribution, attacks on the super rich and land reform* unless we escape from Westminster. I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'd be interested in an answer to a question. First, I'd never known of a separate Scottish identity from the British until I started following Rangers a couple years ago. I only learned of it from looking at blogs, articles, and message boards related to football. Second, I'm a Republican is the USA for full disclosure. I follow politics more than some people, but not to an extreme extent. I drive for a living and listen to conservative political podcasts if I run out of sports podcasts on a particular day. Politics are interesting in the same way as sports, but I'm not horribly offended by the opposition. In the run up to the Scottish independence referendum there were English conservative unionists in the American media. Their general thoughts were that they supported the continued United Kingdom for nationalist reasons related to the flag, shared history, etc, but that conservative politics in both England and Scotland would benefit from Scottish independence. Their basic argument was that Scottish independence would allow for a resurgence of the Scottish conservative movement. They claimed that Scottish attitudes and opinions are not as left wing as the parties they vote for in the current system. Some claimed this is similar to African Americans in the US and the French in Canada. I would be curious to hear the response to this argument from a left wing Scottish person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Please don't hijack my thread, I'm not far off gauging the enthusiasm for a modern day attempt at the Jacobite Rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Starko Rover Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The best people to runAustralia = Australians India = IndiansCanada = CanadiansScotland = English??? I'm Scottish and I believe the best people to run Scotland Left/Right/Centre is our own people, it really is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Basically what you have said tbh. I cannot stand what the UK is and has stood for in the past. We are 4 different countries. We all have different wants and needs. We should have a Scottish government that Scottish people choose, controlling all Scottish matters and caring only about Scotland. And fwiw I don't think that England should be influenced by Scotland either. Why should England get Labour when they voted for a Conservative majority just because the SNP will back Labour? I don't think that's fair either.... England should get the government they vote for in a majority. But now for the first time it looks like that might not happen. Maybe after it they'll start to question how much they really want a Union aswell... But hey ho, they want a United Kingdom just now, so whilst we are all in it they'll just have to suck it up and accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Basically what you have said tbh. I cannot stand what the UK is and has stood for in the past. We are 4 different countries. We all have different wants and needs. We should have a Scottish government that Scottish people choose, controlling all Scottish matters and caring only about Scotland. And fwiw I don't think that England should be influenced by Scotland either. Why should England get Labour when they voted for a Conservative majority just because the SNP will back Labour? I don't think that's fair either.... England should get the government they vote for in a majority. But now for the first time it looks like that might not happen. Maybe after it they'll start to question how much they really want a Union aswell... But hey ho, they want a United Kingdom just now, so whilst we are all in it they'll just have to suck it up and accept it. To be fair We do have a scottish goverment that we the people choose that looks after scotland and its affairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaDundee Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I hate Britain and everything it stands for. Would be anything other than British. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Always thought of myself as Scottish, and found it illogical that we don't actually govern ourselves. I just don't understand 90-minute nationalists. I've never felt remotely British or proud of its history, though I'm an Anglophile. I find the prospect of creating a country afresh pretty exciting too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizfit Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 People fawning over a family we put in a palace (people are camping outside a hospital draped in the union flag for f**k sake) Illegal wars Sneering at anything that is not faux English Boris Johnson These are reasons I detest the union, I always said I was Scottish over being British. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 There was this woman who had been interviewed on BBC that was from some snooty town that said the SNP shouldn't be allowed to get any powers in Westminster as they want to break up the country - so what the f**k are we meant to vote for in Scotland? UKIP? Stupid fucking snobby f**k that she was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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