Thursday means nothing

[git-intae-thum]

Unpopular but...... in the bigger picture, last Thursday was an irrelevance.

the SNP are just the means to an end. I want independence but remain independent of mind. I did not celebrate the result.

My reason......In order to gain independence, the whole country needs to be carried.

We have plenty of left/centre left parties covering the independence ground.

Question to independence supporters.

How do we win the centre and right. For to gain our goal, that is who we now have to convince

[SodjesSixteenIncher]

My reason......In order to gain independence, the whole country needs to be carried.

No it doesn't. Some people will never get behind the idea. Namely the right-wing and the British nationalists (pretty much the same people).

The No campaign (successfully, unfortunately) convinced enough people naturally on the centre and left that we were too wee, poor and stupid. Those kind of people can be convinced otherwise, increasingly so in future years as the people who get their entire view of the world through Reporting Scotland and the Record are replaced by more advanced, independently minded generations.

There's simply no point in trying to win round everyone. The GTSQ type are a complete fringe anyway.

[I'm Brian]

I totally disagree. Thursday meant so much for the independence cause. I've said it since 19th September.

Now I will say it first before I say what I am going to say, but a one party state is bad for democracy, however in this instance it is a means to an end.

Had we not done so spectacularly well it would have ratified the decision to remain as part of the UK to the point that independence would have probably not have happened in my lifetime.

What is required is every area of government needs to have a huge majority of representatives supporting independence.

Stage one was completed last week. The 56 MP's that were returned now need to start earning their corn and show themselves capable of creating a better Scotland for all. At every turn of the road they have to be screaming and shouting for everyone in Scottish society. They have to show that there is an alternative, and they also have to highlight how badly the Westminster system serves Scotland. My other hope is they can open up a few can of worms down there by being able to highlight some of the stuff that has been hidden over the years. Their participation on the committees should be priceless in this respect. The SNP must have a loud voice in every area of WM life and they need to ask very awkward questions for the establishment.

If any one of those 56 thinks they are going down to WM to sit on their hands and play the WM system then I hope they are suitably chastised by the party members and hierarchy. It is a massive five years for these MP's and they need to be rock solid as a group. It has been all too easy for the Lab/Tory govts over the years to show themselves as doing the best for Scotland. A minority of people who have been perceived as being nasty divisive nats have been screaming against them over the years. We are now in a position to prove it.

Stage two is next year at Holyrood and then I think just as importantly stage three is removing the old guard in the local councils and in these two I hope that a lot of non SNP independence supporting candidates will be elected, again to show that Scotland is more than capable of governing itself away from the traditional system.

If it can be shown that Scotland is capable of governing itself then the people will be more likely to vote for independence. A lot of the conversations I have had on the doorsteps back this up. A lot of people have said they weren't convinced by the arguments last year. What better way to prove them wrong than by showing they are capable of governing.

[Fide]

All you need to do is look at the Twitter feeds of the likes of Historywoman, Effie Deans et al to know that there are some people who can never be convinced of the benefits of an independent Scotland.

What we need to do is convince a broad base of at least 60% of the electorate that independence is the best wa forward for our country.

We aren't ready now. But we're getting there.

[SlipperyP]

All you need to do is look at the Twitter feeds of the likes of Historywoman, Effie Deans et al to know that there are some people who can never be convinced of the benefits of an independent Scotland.

What we need to do is convince a broad base of at least 60% of the electorate that independence is the best wa forward for our country.

We aren't ready now. But we'll get there.

FTFY

[Fide]

FTFY

Chamon, brother.

[Mr Bairn]

The only people not celebrating a fundamentalist Nationalists who want independence for the sake of it.

Those who view independence as a means to progressive politics are delighted.

[Scary Bear]

All you need to do is look at the Twitter feeds of the likes of Historywoman, Effie Deans et al to know that there are some people who can never be convinced of the benefits of an independent Scotland.

What we need to do is convince a broad base of at least 60% of the electorate that independence is the best wa forward for our country.

We aren't ready now. But we're getting there.

We probably need to get FFA and show that it can work before a majority could be convinced to vote for independence.

However, the problem then may be loss of support for independence, as people may want to settle for FFA, even though they are completely confident we could be an independent country.

[Scary Bear]

As for the 56 SNP MPs that have been elected, that can't be a bad thing. If nothing else, it was great to see so many safe seats turned upside down. But at the end of the day the Tories are calling the shots again, which is a pain.

[Elixir]

The overwhelming majority of centre-right diddies in Scotland will be self-loathing, servile arseholes.

[banana]

Those who view independence as a means to progressive politics are delighted.

'Progressive', such a nice word in theory instead too often hijacked to mean whatever your 'different' policies are.

On a more general note... Anyone else out there considered that the referendum result, in hindsight, is a good thing for the independence cause and the health of any post-union Scotland? It's seems to have brought people together even more, resulting in a general election result that has added massive legitimacy to the cause. A 2014 newly independent Scotland being in a weaker overall position, less 'ready' than a for example 2024 newly independent Scotland.

[Granny Danger]

If we can win the next referendum by a single vote I'll take it.

[Mr Heliums]

As for the 56 SNP MPs that have been elected, that can't be a bad thing.

Well it could. Imagine at the next general election the SNP lose seats - almost inevitable if they're defending that many. If a referendum is on the SNP's manifesto for that election - as it's fairly likely to be - any drop in support might change the narrative - ie it would be used as evidence of declining support.

[thisal]

The overwhelming majority of centre-right diddies in Scotland will be self-loathing, servile arseholes.

That should get them onside.

[Scary Bear]

Well it could. Imagine at the next general election the SNP lose seats - almost inevitable if they're defending that many. If a referendum is on the SNP's manifesto for that election - as it's fairly likely to be - any drop in support might change the narrative - ie it would be used as evidence of declining support.

Coming from a position where they've won the entire country, bar 3 seats, and in two of those losing by around 1,000 votes, you would think it's going to be downhill from there. That supposes the likes of Labour and the Lib Dems have got their shit together again.

[Scary Bear]

That should get them onside.

Let's be honest. Nothing would get them onside. I have a few pals in this camp. They are the real hardcore British nationalists.

[thisal]

Let's be honest. Nothing would get them onside. I have a few pals in this camp. They are the real hardcore British nationalists.

Do you seriously think there are no Scottish nationalists who are centre right?

[Mr Bairn]

'Progressive', such a nice word in theory instead too often hijacked to mean whatever your 'different' policies are.

On a more general note... Anyone else out there considered that the referendum result, in hindsight, is a good thing for the independence cause and the health of any post-union Scotland? It's seems to have brought people together even more, resulting in a general election result that has added massive legitimacy to the cause. A 2014 newly independent Scotland being in a weaker overall position, less 'ready' than a for example 2024 newly independent Scotland.

Agreed.

A 51-49 win for Yes would have led to an incredibly disunited iScotland trying to make it as a newly independent country in difficult economic circumstances without the protection of quantitative easing. It had unmitigated disaster written all over it.

When we're ready to be independent in a few years time Yes will win with 65-70% of the vote and (hopefully) we will be launching our own currency

[Scary Bear]

Do you seriously think there are no Scottish nationalists who are centre right?

The previous poster did say 'the overwhelming majority', not 'all'.

What would a centre right SNP voter look like, in terms of a profile?

[Fide]

Do you seriously think there are no Scottish nationalists who are centre right?

Nope.