Thursday means nothing

[Double Jack D]

We probably need to get FFA and show that it can work before a majority could be convinced to vote for independence.

However, the problem then may be loss of support for independence, as people may want to settle for FFA, even though they are completely confident we could be an independent country.

Dependent on our voice and the general direction of UK foreign policy and defence, I would perhaps be in this camp.

A big if though as the current direction is miles away from what I would support.

[Granny Danger]

That would be a disaster and would cause conflict, resentment and division for generations to come.Our negotiating position on almost everything would be unbelievably weak. To have credibility it needs to be 60% or more and preferably over 65% of the vote for Yes.This is going to require a longer game than many think.

No a win by a single would enough, equally a loss by a single vote would be enough.

Dependent on our voice and the general direction of UK foreign policy and defence, I would perhaps be in this camp. A big if though as the current direction is miles away from what I would support.

The problem with anything short of independence is that we could have anything and everything taken away at any time.The UK parliamentary system has rightly been described as an elected dictatorship as there are no counter balances.This Tory government could legally abolish the Scottish parliament. I'm not saying it would, I'm not saying their wouldn't be a reaction; but they could legally do it.

[boabinoban]

That would be a disaster and would cause conflict, resentment and division for generations to come.

Our negotiating position on almost everything would be unbelievably weak.

To have credibility it needs to be 60% or more and preferably over 65% of the vote for Yes.

This is going to require a longer game than many think.

So you're saying the referendum result wasn't credible?

[doulikefish]

Thursday meant lots.Do you really think if we had returned the usual 40 labour types cameron would be up in jockoland today?

[Wee Bully]

What would a centre right SNP voter look like, in terms of a profile?

Me. I'm centre right economically.

Soft left / liberal handwringer socially.

[Granny Danger]

Me. I'm centre right economically.

Soft left / liberal handwringer socially.

Then you don't understand power structures.

[Sooky]

I know a fair few SNP members who are centre-right but are members due to their desire for independence. Once independence has been achieved the majority say they would probably vote for a more centre-right party in an Indy Scotland.

[doulikefish]

I know a fair few SNP members who are centre-right but are members due to their desire for independence. Once independence has been achieved the majority say they would probably vote for a more centre-right party in an Indy Scotland.

Put me in that category aswell

[Granny Danger]

I know a fair few SNP members who are centre-right but are members due to their desire for independence. Once independence has been achieved the majority say they would probably vote for a more centre-right party in an Indy Scotland.

I would hope that it is taken for granted that following independence that there would need to be a political realignment with a number of parties coming to the fore offering real, different political choices to the Scottish electorate.

That said I think the SNP will continue in the short to medium term as a significant political force for reasons that would be understandable. However, for democratic reasons, it would have to fragment eventually.

[Scary Bear]

Me. I'm centre right economically.

Soft left / liberal handwringer socially.

Surely everyone has differing views dependant on the subject? I know I do.

As you're centre right economically, but have differing views on other subjects, would you come under the banner of centre right?

Is centre right such a bad place to be? Being in the centre is quite reasonable, whether you are to the left of it or the right of it.

What does your profile need to look like to be described as right wing?

[Sooky]

I would hope that it is taken for granted that following independence that there would need to be a political realignment with a number of parties coming to the fore offering real, different political choices to the Scottish electorate.That said I think the SNP will continue in the short to medium term as a significant political force for reasons that would be understandable. However, for democratic reasons, it would have to fragment eventually.

I actually agree you with 100%. Apologies, I'm sure this makes you feel uneasy.

[Granny Danger]

I actually agree you with 100%. Apologies, I'm sure this makes you feel uneasy.

Not in the least, you're probably the only Tory on here that I would engage with in a meaningful way because I think you're genuine. The other supposed Tories like the red rob guy are just zoomers who I wouldn't waste my time with.

The fact that you can occasionally be correct by agreeing with me100% is probably just some sort of statistical anomaly. I doesn't make me feel uneasy at all.

[FuzzyAffro]

If we are ever to win independence there is one thing we absolutely must do. And several times during indyref I felt like punching yes voters in the face over this, you see it on here all the time too. Its very infuriating and borne of pure ignorance.

Don't, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, for any reason whatsoever, use the word socialism. The yes campaign won the left-wing vote, but what do you think an accountant in North Berwick thinks when they hear the word socialism? 'Aye and who's going to pay for your socialist utopia? Me'. That's what they think so they voted against it.

Its just brutal ignorance anyway, yes voters going on about socialism blatantly just don't know what the word means. Nobody was ever proposing any form of socialism, there is nothing remotely socialist about the SNP, and there would have been nothing remotely socialist about an independent Scotland.

Yet still people went on and on about socialism, and you still hear it all the time. This is just stupid people who don't know what the word means.

Instead of socialism you should say social justice or progressive politics. The SNP and an independent Scotland are a million miles from socialism, not even close. And using the word scares off higher earning voters who think they will be paying 80% tax.

If you want independence, engage your fucking brain and don't ever, ever, ever say or write the word socialism ever again for the rest of your life. Firstly, you don't have a clue what you're talking about, secondly, every time you do you lose the yes campaign a vote.

[banana]

Instead of socialism you should say social justice or progressive politics.

Solid propaganda using fluffy, feelgood, but highly twistable/open to interpretation terms such that they're borderline meaningless. Intellectually dishonest, but agree it's probably an effective approach to appeal to and indoctrinate the masses.

[FuzzyAffro]

That would be a disaster and would cause conflict, resentment and division for generations to come.

Our negotiating position on almost everything would be unbelievably weak.

To have credibility it needs to be 60% or more and preferably over 65% of the vote for Yes.

This is going to require a longer game than many think.

No it doesn't, you just don't get results like that in votes like that. 51-49 is fine, that's a mandate. You're living in dreamland with 65%, 10% of the population are English, then other UK nationals, and Britnats. 65% will never happen, 51-49 is fine.

[FuzzyAffro]

Solid propaganda using fluffy, feelgood, but highly twistable/open to interpretation terms such that they're borderline meaningless. Intellectually dishonest, but agree it's probably an effective approach to appeal to and indoctrinate the masses.

No that's utter nonsense, they are not fluffy or twistable they are political terms with specific meanings and are accurate. Socialism is not.

[gavin_3110]

Well, the first one was won by the good guys. So it has to be best of three at least, everyone knows that.

My only regret about the last year's referendum was that there was no option to dissolve the Scottish Parliament entirely.

Scottish nationalists, respecting the democratic will of the nation, well unless they give the wrong answer, then we'll just keep asking.

[FuzzyAffro]

It doesn't have to be the best of three, that's laughable. One win for yes, even by one vote, and its independence. There are no limits to the amount of referenda we can hold either.

British nationalists, think one win in the most underhanded fashion ever settles the question for all time. Aw bless.

[Granny Danger]

Well, the first one was won by the good guys. So it has to be best of three at least, everyone knows that.

My only regret about the last year's referendum was that there was no option to dissolve the Scottish Parliament entirely.

Scottish nationalists, respecting the democratic will of the nation, well unless they give the wrong answer, then we'll just keep asking.

If you feel so strongly then why not start a political party whose objective is to dissolve the Scottish Parliament?

[banana]

No that's utter nonsense, they are not fluffy or twistable they are political terms with specific meanings and are accurate. Socialism is not.

Unfortunately not as previously explained, and they say nothing of policies nor the merits of those policies.

Ask your average punter on the street what Progressive politics means by definition and they won't know. But it has the word 'progress' in it so it must by default be good, and therefore a party saying they're Progressive can only be good for the country and the people. Same goes for 'Social justice' - how can that be anything but positive? Look at all those social injustices, 'Social justice' will fix all that! Sign me up!

Totally agree that talking in terms of Socialism isn't good propaganda right now, so again agree that your two other proposed terms are preferable from an indoctrination effectiveness standpoint.