Dundee United 2015/16 Season

[1320Lichtie]

It's very believable at that time.

Look at the signings we made when we went up:

• Roberts (released from Falkirk and a young nutcase)
• Bain (part time Alloa)
• Stewart (part time Cowdenbeath)
• McGinn (part time Dumbarton)
• Tankulic (level 4 German football)
• Konrad (level 4 German football)
• Clarkson (training with lower division clubs and rejected at multiple top flight clubs)
• McPake (Hibs)
• Thomson (Hibs)
• Ferry (Portsmouth)
• Harkins (released from St Mirren)
• McGowan (released from St Mirren but for financial reasons)

The only other players that we had were Letheren, Irvine, Dyer, Davo, McAlister, McBride, Peaso and Boyle. All of them, with the exception of Boyle who was a youngster, were signed for First Division football at a time when we were struggling for money.

You are only really looking at Harkins, Ferry, Thomson, McPake, McGowan and maybe Irvine (due to time spent at the club) who were on 'top flight money'. I really don't think that anyone else in the squad touched the £1k mark.

The talk at the time was that when we went up unprepared in 2012, the top end of the wages was originally something like £800 per week.

Obviously, we've handed out a few renewals now to the guys that have proven themselves but it's also worth remembering that we were also paying settlement fees to most of the previous seasons squad too. They had automatic renewals in a few of their deals and they weren't good enough to play top flight football so we choose to move them on. We're less restricted now.

EDIT: Apologies, now that I think of it, McAlister was signed before the SPL season but that was at a time when we didn't yet have the TV money to spend and had no overdraft facility. He was looking for a club after leaving Hamilton and was a very cheap signing.

This is figures from season 12/13, remember these averages will include every member of a 1st team squad.

Do you really think Murray, getting about 900 a week, would only have 6 players at Dens getting more money than him?

[Zetterlund]

I think a lot of people overestimate how much players earn in Scottish football. I remember circa 2003 when I worked for a then Utd director he told me the top players like Charlie Miller would earn about £2.5k, I have no idea how this compares to now but clubs are meant to be run a bit more responsibly these days - although Mixu's ensemble of short-term mercenaries are no doubt on a sizeable wedge.

[harry94]

This is figures from last year, remember these averages will include every member of a 1st team squad.

ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1461709505.090513.jpg

Do you really think Murray, getting about 900 a week, would only have 6 players at Dens getting more money than him?

 

Well as I just laid out, we only had 5/6 players who would be considered in the higher tier of earners. The rest of the squad were from our First Division squad or were totally unproven at this level and although I can't prove it, our ceiling was originally around £800 a week when we were low on funds and went up due to the Rangers situation. I very much doubt that many players breached this.

 

An 'average' doesn't really mean anything on it's own. Kevin Thomson was rumoured to be on pretty good money and the other senior players I alluded to wouldn't have come cheap. Paul McGowan, although having off the park issues, was regarded as a very good player and that would have been reflected in his wage packet. We aren't included in that table but if we were, I imagine that the higher earners would have us above the £1k a week barrier.

 

The pay-offs like I said were also taking a big chunk of the wage and if you actually looked at how many players we were effectively paying for a season, the list was very large.

 

Being promoted and then having such a large turnover of players in this manner is going to produce a bigger difference in the wages of our squad compared to a team like say St Johnstone who had a squad that were mostly top flight.

 

We can never prove these things as the full data isn't going to ever be released but with all that was happening at the club, I would be very confident to say that only 6 or so players breached the £1k figure. Now though it's a different story. We're paying fewer players but we have renewed Bain and Stewart's contract and we've managed to attract some players from teams around our level.

 

I don't think the statement would be true anymore but what Deefiant has said does have an element of truth in it when you look at the spread of players we had at that time and the nature of squad we had. 

[1320Lichtie]

That is a fair point. Murray and his salary however is not a stick to beat United with though. Getting paid at a level which would be below average for most clubs, never mind United, who were at the time one of the better teams/paying better wages than most other clubs in the league. I'm sure Rory McAllister turned down 700 a week from St Mirren to continue playing part time as he made a lot more money with his plumbing/part time contract..?

Anyway that's the only point I was making.

The wage structure has clearly gotten out of hand at United but it's not down to guys like Murray.

[Deeboy]

You think paying players of Murray's calibre '£900' per week isn't exactly why it's out of hand?

Oh my.

[vikingTON]

The median wage is far more significant for working out the value of first-team players - having dozens of youth diddies watering down the 'average wage' to a different extent at each club makes the average figure completely meaningless.

Of course, almost all wage claims for individual player contracts are wildly inflated online, but if they're even close to shelling out £900 a week for barely out of the youth system squad fodder like Murray then they're absolutely fucked, there can be no doubt about that.

[Deefiant]

The median wage is far more significant for working out the value of first-team players - having dozens of youth diddies watering down the 'average wage' to a different extent at each club makes the average figure completely meaningless.

Of course, almost all wage claims for individual player contracts are wildly inflated online, but if they're even close to shelling out £900 a week for barely out of the youth system squad fodder like Murray then they're absolutely fucked, there can be no doubt about that.

This.

He would have been a top earner (give or take a handful of players) at Dens.

He's probably floating around the average squad player figure at Utd.

If anyone thinks Demel is on anything less than £3k a week (likely a fair bit more) they are crazy. He is a bit of an exception in that he was bought in desperate times but I guarantee guys like Rankin, Dixon, Paton etc would be the top earners at Dens comfortably.

[1320Lichtie]

This.

He would have been a top earner (give or take a handful of players) at Dens.

He's probably floating around the average squad player figure at Utd.

If anyone thinks Demel is on anything less than £3k a week (likely a fair bit more) they are crazy. He is a bit of an exception in that he was bought in desperate times but I guarantee guys like Rankin, Dixon, Paton etc would be the top earners at Dens comfortably.

You see the figures I posted?

900 a week is f**k all for a full time footballer. (About 36k a year after tax?) It's a good wage but it's not even that great a wage in an ordinary profession, I'm still on poor wages, and they'd be about half of that.

Guys like Murray aren't the problem, but just you continue to believe that.

Eta: I don't disagree about Demel, players like him are the problem.

[Deefiant]

You see the figures I posted?

900 a week is f**k all for a full time footballer. It's a good wage but it's not even that great a wage in an ordinary profession.

Guys like Murray aren't the problem, but just you continue to believe that.

When guys like Murray are offered £900 per week (plus a generous bonus package) they are a good indication that a problem is there.

£900 is a first team player wage. Not a boy coming from part time being given his chance. He won't have been given a wage on a par with utds top earners, nor will he be on the same as a regular first team player. He was 5th or 6th choice striker in pre season - bilate, Bodul, muirhead, ciftci all ahead of him for starters. If you are paying squad players £900 a week (before generous bonuses) you are overspending dramatically.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm not getting at your man crush, more power to Simon for getting paid at least double his worth. More fool Utd.

You can believe me or not - I don't care what a 1/3 Arbroath, 1/3 DAB, 1/3 Celtic fan thinks he knows.

The only deluded party is yourself. You clearly struggle with both the wages available in Scottish football and generally the value of money.

£47k a year not a great wage in a normal profession. What do you earn? now factor in he doesn't do a 37.5 hour week for a flavour of how much he gets paid per hour.

[1320Lichtie]

When guys like Murray are offered £900 per week (plus a generous bonus package) they are a good indication that a problem is there.

£900 is a first team player wage. Not a boy coming from part time being given his chance. He won't have been given a wage on a par with utds top earners, nor will he be on the same as a regular first team player. He was 5th or 6th choice striker in pre season - bilate, Bodul, muirhead, ciftci all ahead of him for starters. If you are paying squad players £900 a week (before generous bonuses) you are overspending dramatically.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm not getting at your man crush, more power to Simon for getting paid at least double his worth. More fool Utd.

You can believe me or not - I don't care what a 1/3 Arbroath, 1/3 DAB, 1/3 Celtic fan thinks he knows.

The only deluded party is yourself. You clearly struggle with both the wages available in Scottish football and generally the value of money.

£47k a year not a great wage in a normal profession. What do you earn? now factor in he doesn't do a 37.5 hour week for a flavour of how much he gets paid per hour.

There'd be tax on that, he'd be bringing home about 33/34? Hardly outrageous for a full time footballer, but I'd agree it would be more than he's probably worth. What would you say was a suitable wage for him out of interest? Considering he was a plumber before and getting part time wages off of us? Remembering that somebody like Rory McAllister had turned down £700 a week at St Mirren as it wasn't enough for him to make the move from Plumbing/Part Time to FT.

And I'm not struggling at all, again, did you see the figures I quoted?

I agree that the bloated squad/guys you've mentioned have been the problem.

[Deefiant]

There'd be tax on that, he'd be bringing home about 33/34? Hardly outrageous for a full time footballer, but I'd agree it would be more than he's probably worth. What would you say was a suitable wage for him out of interest? Considering he was a plumber before and getting part time wages off of us?

And I'm not struggling at all, again, did you see the figures I quoted?

I agree that the bloated squad/guys you've mentioned have been the problem.

He was offered approximately half that at dens, again with a generous bonus package. That's on a par with deals recently signed by Craig Wighton and Cammy Kerr - a wage befitting their status as squad players. Cammys wage at the start of this season would shock you.

He had a choice to make, stay part time, pick up a plumbers wage on top and be financially well off. All he has to do is a 40 hour week of manual labour, give up 2 or 3 of his evenings a week to train/play midweek plus give up every Saturday. Basically graft like f**k 6 days a week.

Hartley offered him a way in to full time football and the potential income that can lead to - basically an opportunity to prove himself. In doing so I think he'd have been financially slightly worse off, but he'd have worked about 4 hours most days, had every afternoon/evening to himself apart from games and obviously Saturday's would be out as is usual for a footballer.

Thankfully for Simon Murray, McNamara and Utd are thick as f**k and offered him well in excess of his value. You then need to look at whether they broke their wage structure for him or whether they simply pay daft wages across the board.

I know which I think it is.

Side Note - All salaries are taxed. £30k is seen as a "good wage" and is above the national average - take home a little over £26k (roughly) and still a good salary. Not many guys Si murrays age earning circa £50k a year...

[1320Lichtie]

450 a week offer to a 24 year old to be a full time player and give up his work, no wonder he turned that down. I knew Dundee were diddy but no that diddy.

And it's been mentioned on here already by one of your fellow Dee's that that'll be below average at Tannadice. 900 a week is probably more than his worth, I've said that, but it's hardly outrageous which is why you can't use it as a stick to hit United with.

It's the bloated squad that'll be getting a lot more than that that's to blame.

Anyway I imagine you'll spend all day posting on this thread as usual Deefiant but I'm away to work, very pleased to know that I'm not missing out on much by not being a full time footballer, well, at Dundee.

[Deefiant]

450 a week offer to a 24 year old to be a full time player and give up his work, no wonder he turned that down. I knew Dundee were diddy but no that diddy.

And it's been mentioned on here already by one of your fellow Dee's that that'll be below average at Tannadice. 900 a week is probably more than his worth, I've said that, but it's hardly outrageous which is why you can't use it as a stick to hit United with.

It's the bloated squad that'll be getting a lot more than that that's to blame.

Anyway I imagine you'll spend all day posting on this thread as usual Deefiant but I'm away to work, very pleased to know that I'm not missing out on much by not being a full time footballer, well, at Dundee.

Rattled.

It's not my fault you have absolutely no concept of Scottish footballers wages.

£900 a week is excessive for a squad player at any club outwith Celtic (who obviously pay a shed load more)

Greg Stewart signed for less than Si Murray signed for Utd. Just let that sink in

ETA - while we are at it, I'm fortunate enough to have a desk job that allows me internet access whilst picking up a very decent salary. I did get notice of redundancy and had lost my job for a brief spell last week. I took a massive pay cut to keep a job though and will continue to happily graft my arse off for a touch more than Si Murray takes home.

Thank you

[Deeboy]

There's also extenuating circumstances why McAlister turned down St Mirren (and other) offers, which he openly told in a recent interview before the Petrofac cup final.

Simon made £250 a week at Arbroath if he appeared and scored. Add on any win bonus, then his plumbers wage he'd be on an excellent weekly income that at a guess would sit around £700.

He then had a decision to make - stay where he is and possibly be labelled an underachiever whilst having to knock his cùnt in weekly. (lol, jk. Plumbers don't work hard, ken?) or move up a level. Now I'm exceptionally happy the way it panned out that both Dundee never offered him enough and that he never signed for his boyhood club because as has been shown - he's nowhere near this level.

If you seriously don't think Dundee United offering a poor player well over the odds for his services is stupid, then you can't compare it to players who have proven in the past that they SHOULD be able to make an impact at this level, Demel/Pongolle/Kawashima etc.

[1320Lichtie]

Rattled.

It's not my fault you have absolutely no concept of Scottish footballers wages.

£900 a week is excessive for a squad player at any club outwith Celtic (who obviously pay a shed load more)

Greg Stewart signed for less than Si Murray signed for Utd. Just let that sink in

ETA - while we are at it, I'm fortunate enough to have a desk job that allows me internet access whilst picking up a very decent salary. I did get notice of redundancy and had lost my job for a brief spell last week. I took a massive pay cut to keep a job though and will continue to happily graft my arse off for a touch more than Si Murray takes home.

Thank you

Simon Murray is better than Greg Stewart, so I'm not surprised to hear that.

Sorry to hear about your letter of redundancy but I'm glad you've got something sorted. I also have a desk job with Internet access but I'm not anywhere near Murrays wage.

I do however look forward to walking past Cammy Kerr and/or Craig Wighton in the streets and throwing 50s at them in a Wolf of Wall street 'esque manner.

[Deefiant]

Simon Murray is better than Greg Stewart, so I'm not surprised to hear that.

Sorry to hear about your letter of redundancy but I'm glad you've got something sorted. I also have a desk job with Internet access but I'm not anywhere near Murrays wage.

I do however look forward to walking past Cammy Kerr and/or Craig Wighton in the streets and throwing 50s at them in a Wolf of Wall street 'esque manner.

Just remember that after a season or 2 and if they have proved themselves at Scottish Premiership level (I think they will) they will return the favour with Benjamin's.

On a serious note when I was Wightons age I earned £11k a year so I reckon he'll be happy enough.

[1320Lichtie]

Just remember that after a season or 2 and if they have proved themselves at Scottish Premiership level (I think they will) they will return the favour with Benjamin's.

On a serious note when I was Wightons age I earned £11k a year so I reckon he'll be happy enough.

Both good players. Think Wighton may get a move and Kerr will be a solid 1st team player for you.

And paying over the odds for anybody is stupid Deeboy, of course, I just found using Murray as an example wasn't fair. Like you say it's not that much more than he could get at part time/plumbing, and United are one of the biggest full time clubs in the country. That is all.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Simon Murray is better than Greg Stewart, so I'm not surprised to hear that.

Sorry to hear about your letter of redundancy but I'm glad you've got something sorted. I also have a desk job with Internet access but I'm not anywhere near Murrays wage.

I do however look forward to walking past Cammy Kerr and/or Craig Wighton in the streets and throwing 50s at them in a Wolf of Wall street 'esque manner.

 

 

[banana]

One can only imagine how much we offered Imrie.

[powerhouse7]

Give this a read hahahah