Charles Kennedy

[SweeperDee]

Still a crime in Scotland which you can spend time in the cells for, which is absolutely scandalous but hey ho. That's the legal system.

[BFTD]

Still a crime in Scotland which you can spend time in the cells for, which is absolutely scandalous but hey ho. That's the legal system.

Suicide? Really? Wikipedia says no, for what that's worth.

A stint in a psychiatric hospital might be a decent plan for all concerned. For the suicidee, not yourself, obviously

[BFTD]

Whilst it is indeed a tragic case the SNP need to stop their puritanical attacks on alcohol. Alcoholics will always find a way to get drunk. I've been told Police Scotland's next move is to try and ban people from buying a bottle of wine with their meal and insist on buying it by the glass. That'll do wonders for tourism

"Scotland? f**k no. They b*****ds don't allow you neck at entire bottle of Bucky during your meal. Drinking out of glasses, indeed. Come, my dear, to France! Where the government appreciates the work of a true piss artiste!"

[SweeperDee]

Suicide? Really? Wikipedia says no, for what that's worth.

A stint in a psychiatric hospital might be a decent plan for all concerned. For the suicidee, not yourself, obviously

Yup, really. You get caught trying to kill yourself by the police then you get put in the cells until you're deemed no longer to be a danger to yourself. In my line of work I hear stories about it all the time.

[BFTD]

Yup, really. You get caught trying to loll yourself by the police then you get put in the cells until your deemed no longer to be a danger to yourself. In my line of work I hear stories about it all the time.

That's probably not a bad idea, considering they'll make sure it's an environment that you can't hurt yourself in.

Psychiatric ward would be better, obviously. But I think you'd be there a whole lot longer.

[SweeperDee]

That's probably not a bad idea, considering they'll make sure it's an environment that you can't hurt yourself in.

Psychiatric ward would be better, obviously. But I think you'd be there a whole lot longer.

It's awful. If I'd just tried to top myself and failed, the last place I'd like to be is a jail cell on my own where I just have myself and my thoughts for company. The first place they should go is the hospital or a psychiatric ward like you say, but money talks unfortunately.

They usually get released on their own anyway which is the funny part, they will go and try again and if they fail again they will end up back in the cells. It's lunacy.

[I'm Brian]

It's awful. If I'd just tried to top myself and failed, the last place I'd like to be is a jail cell on my own where I just have myself and my thoughts for company. The first place they should go is the hospital or a psychiatric ward like you say, but money talks unfortunately.

They usually get released on their own anyway which is the funny part, they will go and try again and if they fail again they will end up back in the cells. It's lunacy.

When I got picked up in similar circumstances they took me to the police station. No cells involved, and then on to the hospital for an assessment. All the police are doing is ensuring your safety as they are obliged to do.

Not wanting to open up a whole debate on this as there is a thread elsewhere but one or two of the comments in this thread regarding depression are ignorant to say the least.

Edit: not the one I have quoted DD

[SweeperDee]

When I got picked up in similar circumstances they took me to the police station. No cells involved, and then on to the hospital for an assessment. All the police are doing is ensuring your safety as they are obliged to do.

Not wanting to open up a whole debate on this as there is a thread elsewhere but one or two of the comments in this thread regarding depression are ignorant to say the least.

Edit: not the one I have quoted DD

Thankfully I'm sure some police officers have some conscience and don't lock individuals up in that scenario.

You'll be flabbergasted at the ignorance on the topic of depression in wider society tbh, no surprise this forum reflects that.

[I'm Brian]

Thankfully I'm sure some police officers have some conscience and don't lock individuals up in that scenario.

You'll be flabbergasted at the ignorance on the topic of depression in wider society tbh, no surprise this forum reflects that.

I think to be fair to the police here, for me it was a Monday night and the two of them sat me in an office and talked away to me. Had it been a Friday or a Saturday they wouldn't have been able to do that and a cell probably would have been the only option to ensure my safety, as they would have been required elsewhere.

Oh I wouldn't be flabbergasted. I work in an environment where peoples reaction to depression is to openly ridicule and put down people who may be exhibiting signs of it. The ignorance is astounding, however society's ignorance it is not helped by fuckwits who phone up their work on a Monday morning saying they won't be in because they think they've got a wee touch of that depression.

[Savage Henry]

I think to be fair to the police here, for me it was a Monday night and the two of them sat me in an office and talked away to me. Had it been a Friday or a Saturday they wouldn't have been able to do that and a cell probably would have been the only option to ensure my safety, as they would have been required elsewhere.

Oh I wouldn't be flabbergasted. I work in an environment where peoples reaction to depression is to openly ridicule and put down people who may be exhibiting signs of it. The ignorance is astounding, however society's ignorance it is not helped by fuckwits who phone up their work on a Monday morning saying they won't be in because they think they've got a wee touch of that depression.

Do people actually do that? A touch of depression is a contradiction in terms.

As for being out in a cell, I think irrespective of the legal wording, in reality a failed suicide person (not sure what noun to use) would be taken into custody elsewhere given the availability.

[throbber]

I worried it was a suicide due to the timing of his death in relation to losing his seat. I suppose though drinking yourself into oblivion over years is a slower form of suicide.

I was unaware as to how much of a boozer he was, i always thought he was on and off it but seeing footage of him in the past few years he really did look un well and his performance on question time a month before the election was pretty tragic as we were effectively watching a dying man.

[S7C]

Gets sadder the more you read about it.

Always had a bit of respect for him. RIP.

[invergowrie arab]

Still a crime in Scotland which you can spend time in the cells for, which is absolutely scandalous but hey ho. That's the legal system.

No it isn't.

Getting put in the cells doesn't equal something being criminal. Someone will be detained under the mental health act as the police have a duty of care to ensure that no harm comes to them and take them to a place of safety. Whilst ideally that is a hospital that isn't always possible.

[SweeperDee]

No it isn't.

Getting put in the cells doesn't equal something being criminal. Someone will be detained under the mental health act as the police have a duty of care to ensure that no harm comes to them and take them to a place of safety. Whilst ideally that is a hospital that isn't always possible.

They are treated like criminals. Should have worded it better, apologies.

[I'm Brian]

Do people actually do that? A touch of depression is a contradiction in terms.

As for being out in a cell, I think irrespective of the legal wording, in reality a failed suicide person (not sure what noun to use) would be taken into custody elsewhere given the availability.

Yes. I have heard those exact words. I also used to work in a place where it was the favoured reason to put on your self cert.

The point about the cells is that it isn't always possible to get to a hospital very easily, so the police have to hold you until it is possible to get you to a hospital. I have been detained by the police twice. Once I was taken to a police station until the hospital was able to see me, the second time I was taken to A and E and the police stayed until I was in the care of an appropriate professional. I think(although I may have misheard) that a report is also sent to the Procurator Fiscal

[Ad Lib]

^

Seems to think that suicide is a taboo and somehow less worthy a death than one precipitated by a long hopeless torment.

Not at all. I'm saying that a 10 year old boy, who's just lost his dad, would probably find it more difficult to deal with and to understand and to come emotionally to terms with, a suicide than his actual cause of death, a haemorrhage. This is in part because he's a 10 year old boy and probably isn't well versed in the nuances of the effects of mental illness and addiction on human behaviour even though he's lived with someone suffering from it.

But it's also because the society he lives in, notwithstanding the fact his family is fairly liberal, still stigmatises suicide and entrenches preconceptions of it that might make him and other members of his family feel certain more painful emotions and confusion and anger and guilt that they might not otherwise have felt, at least to the same degree.

At no point was I saying that I believe suicide to be a lesser form of death.

[sophia]

Not at all. I'm saying that a 10 year old boy, who's just lost his dad, would probably find it more difficult to deal with and to understand and to come emotionally to terms with, a suicide than his actual cause of death, a haemorrhage. This is in part because he's a 10 year old boy and probably isn't well versed in the nuances of the effects of mental illness and addiction on human behaviour even though he's lived with someone suffering from it.

But it's also because the society he lives in, notwithstanding the fact his family is fairly liberal, still stigmatises suicide and entrenches preconceptions of it that might make him and other members of his family feel certain more painful emotions and confusion and anger and guilt that they might not otherwise have felt, at least to the same degree.

At no point was I saying that I believe suicide to be a lesser form of death.

I understand your point with regard to his son but there is an area that I find interesting and that's the failure of many to grasp why suicides occur.

Its got nothing at all that is related to being of "sterner" stuff and everything to do with illness.

I agree with throbber that an alcoholic is on a suicidal journey and the difference between what Kennedy suffered and what was expressed as a fear in multiple speculative conversations following his death is a momentary act of violence.

[H_B]

Sophia is a known idiot.

My best friend growing up's dad committed suicide when he was 18. It's very obvious why that is much much more difficult to deal with. Their family had a lot of difficulty dealing with the thoughts that their dad just didn't love them enough to stay around and watch them grow up.. Graduate.. Get married.. Have kids etc.

Now obviously it's not that simple. But its an entirely understandable mindset for people to fall into.

A sudden death through heart attack or hemorrhage is something tragic of course... But there isn't any reasonable sense of abandonment. I too feared the worst when I heard the news and was glad it turned out not to be suicide.

[Ad Lib]

I understand your point with regard to his son but there is an area that I find interesting and that's the failure of many to grasp why suicides occur.

Its got nothing at all that is related to being of "sterner" stuff and everything to do with illness.

I agree with throbber that an alcoholic is on a suicidal journey and the difference between what Kennedy suffered and what was expressed as a fear in multiple speculative conversations following his death is a momentary act of violence.

I didn't say it was related to people being or not being made of sterner stuff. I didn't even remotely infer it.

[sophia]

I didn't say it was related to people being or not being made of sterner stuff. I didn't even remotely infer it.

I know you didn't