Jamaldo Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Imagine being a Lib Dem candidate, on the back of your party going into coalition with the Conservatives, and coming out of your own constituency vote with enormous credit and respect, only to then f**k it all up within weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I think there actually is a problem with the quality of scrutiny the SNP are faced with but where I'll probably disagree with the SNPBAAAAD!!! mob, is that it seems to be a two way street to me. I do think there's a lot of people with an unhealthy level of unwavering support for the SNP. You'd think they had an absolutely perfect record in Government, given some of the defensiveness some folk have about them (not really on this thread but generally). On the other hand, the memo thing, especially whichever Labour guy it was that refused to apologise because "she obviously thinks it", was pretty illustrative of just how badly some of their detractors have jumped the shark. It doesn't actually matter what's true or even halfway reasonable. It's all not particularly healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I think there actually is a problem with the quality of scrutiny the SNP are faced with but where I'll probably disagree with the SNPBAAAAD!!! mob, is that it seems to be a two way street to me. I do think there's a lot of people with an unhealthy level of unwavering support for the SNP. You'd think they had an absolutely perfect record in Government, given some of the defensiveness some folk have about them (not really on this thread but generally). On the other hand, the memo thing, especially whichever Labour guy it was that refused to apologise because "she obviously thinks it", was pretty illustrative of just how badly some of their detractors have jumped the shark. It doesn't actually matter what's true or even halfway reasonable. It's all not particularly healthy. Quality is the key word, and as you suggest credibility. No government is perfect. And the SNP aren't immune to that. In the grand scheme of things, unfortunately it doesn't matter how good or bad a government is performing, if they are relatively popular they will continue to get elected. The SNP bad rhetoric will only increase the SNP's already formidable strength. For me, the last thing I want to see is a one party state, but at the moment from my point of view it is a means to an end, as I see them as being the only party that is actively trying to take Scotland forward. What the SNP do is speak up for people of Scotland. None of the other major, or minority in the case of the Lib Dems, parties do this. They are always happy to pander to their imperial masters down south, because to win power, you must win England. And as we all know in this United Kingdom, Westminster are always happy to shit all over Scotland (and Wales and NI for that matter) for the benefit of England. I've been saying it for a while but until credible independent parties emerge in Scotland, that will actually speak for Scotland, then the current scenario will continue. I know only too well that there are people who will sometimes defend the indefensible wrt the SNP, but you do get that in every party. Scotland is on a political express at the moment. Until adequate change that will satisfy the Scottish people is delivered this scenario will continue. My opinion is either Home Rule or full independence are the only two options to fulfil the electorate's wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The SNP bad rhetoric will only increase the SNP's already formidable strength. Absolutely and this is what I've had to make a conscious effort not to be too influenced by. It can easily get to the stage where any media or political criticism of the SNP - justified or not - just bounces off you because the stream of hysterical, nonsensical pish is that fucking constant I dare say the SNP don't really mind, I'm sure it's ended up helping them in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I really don't remember the outcry at that from the other parties at the time. I might have missed it. I do presume, however, that your interpretation of the funding figures and budgetary implications are different to Mr Swinney's, probably biased against his and wholly subjective. Is there, perhaps, an objective analysis we can perhaps peruse for some insight here? West Dunbartonshire Council asks for freedom to raise council tax without punitive block grant sanctions: www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/council-in-plea-to-raise-council-tax.114965492 Opposition parties hit out at Council Tax freeze for not being fully funde as they face real terms cuts to their block grant: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/427348/opposition-parties-hit-out-at-council-tax-freeze/ To play this game you must be a good liar and that warrants praise? Are you a good liar Mr Lib? I'm only crediting him in the same way Alex Salmond praised the successes of Vladimir Putin in restoring national pride to Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Oh and you asked if I'm a good liar? No. I'm a terrible liar. That's why I'll never make it in politics. I am pathologically honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Hopefully nobody is affected by the HSBC redundancies,but lets remind ourselves of this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28896614 And they also warned they would do the same if Labour won the ge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Quality is the key word, and as you suggest credibility. No government is perfect. And the SNP aren't immune to that. In the grand scheme of things, unfortunately it doesn't matter how good or bad a government is performing, if they are relatively popular they will continue to get elected. The SNP bad rhetoric will only increase the SNP's already formidable strength. For me, the last thing I want to see is a one party state, but at the moment from my point of view it is a means to an end, as I see them as being the only party that is actively trying to take Scotland forward. What the SNP do is speak up for people of Scotland. None of the other major, or minority in the case of the Lib Dems, parties do this. They are always happy to pander to their imperial masters down south, because to win power, you must win England. And as we all know in this United Kingdom, Westminster are always happy to shit all over Scotland (and Wales and NI for that matter) for the benefit of England. I've been saying it for a while but until credible independent parties emerge in Scotland, that will actually speak for Scotland, then the current scenario will continue. I know only too well that there are people who will sometimes defend the indefensible wrt the SNP, but you do get that in every party. Scotland is on a political express at the moment. Until adequate change that will satisfy the Scottish people is delivered this scenario will continue. My opinion is either Home Rule or full independence are the only two options to fulfil the electorate's wishes. I can't disagree with any of that, however I hope we can avoid the SLab trap of complacency. As AS says there is a lack of scrutiny and in a democracy that's a bad thing. I think some of the criticisms that SLab have made of Holyrood policy is legitimate but no one is listening because they, deservedly, have zero credibility. I get the impression that most of us will forgive the odd transgression on the basis that the ultimate goal of Independence trumps everything else. However a wee bit of self analysis is not a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Opposition parties hit out at Council Tax freeze for not being fully funde as they face real terms cuts to their block grant: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/427348/opposition-parties-hit-out-at-council-tax-freeze/ I for one am total convinced by the figures in this article. How can you argue with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 West Dunbartonshire Council asks for freedom to raise council tax without punitive block grant sanctions: www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/council-in-plea-to-raise-council-tax.114965492 Opposition parties hit out at Council Tax freeze for not being fully funde as they face real terms cuts to their block grant: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/427348/opposition-parties-hit-out-at-council-tax-freeze/ I'm only crediting him in the same way Alex Salmond praised the successes of Vladimir Putin in restoring national pride to Russia. The first thing didn't work for me. The second did, however it showed that a member of an opposition party disagreed that the freeze was fully funded. It's not really the independent objective analysis I'd suggested would be helpful. It doesn't really backup your claim that John Swinney lied either. What about if we agree to say that it's probably an over simplication to say that it was fully funded or not fully funded? There are, I'd expect, a number of different factors which could be massaged to suit either argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Oh and you asked if I'm a good liar? No. I'm a terrible liar. That's why I'll never make it in politics. I am pathologically honest. Is that you bowing out from standing for future elections? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Is that you bowing out from standing for future elections? Why, are you going to put it next to the latest tinfoil hat column in The National if it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 To be honest, I am delighted that the SNP are refusing to pass down any tax raising powers to local government when you look at the utter incompetence and corruption in display in councils like Aberdeen and Glasgow. I wouldn't trust these people with a 5 year olds pocket money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Why, are you going to put it next to the latest tinfoil hat column in The National if it is?Why would I do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 John Swinney lied. It wasn't fully funded. Politicians lie all the time. I have no moral objection to John Swinney being a minister, and MSP and a liar. He's just playing the game. And has duped a lot of people. Credit to the lad. Why, are you going to put it next to the latest tinfoil hat column in The National if it is? And this, Libbers, is why 0% of people recently polled in Central Scotland by TNS said they would vote for the Busted Flushocrats. It's entirely this type of attitude and patter that has seen the glorious death of Unionist parties in Scotland, particularly your sorry mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I think there actually is a problem with the quality of scrutiny the SNP are faced with but where I'll probably disagree with the SNPBAAAAD!!! mob, is that it seems to be a two way street to me. I do think there's a lot of people with an unhealthy level of unwavering support for the SNP. You'd think they had an absolutely perfect record in Government, given some of the defensiveness some folk have about them (not really on this thread but generally). On the other hand, the memo thing, especially whichever Labour guy it was that refused to apologise because "she obviously thinks it", was pretty illustrative of just how badly some of their detractors have jumped the shark. It doesn't actually matter what's true or even halfway reasonable. It's all not particularly healthy. Right now the SNP have the luxury of taking all the credit for the successes at Holyrood and passing any blame onto Westminster. However, the tide is likely to turn against them once independence has been achieved and the same failures still exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Right now the SNP have the luxury of taking all the credit for the successes at Holyrood and passing any blame onto Westminster. However, the tide is likely to turn against them once independence has been achieved and the same failures still exist. Fine, we can all vote for someone else then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 To be honest, I am delighted that the SNP are refusing to pass down any tax raising powers to local government when you look at the utter incompetence and corruption in display in councils like Aberdeen and Glasgow. I wouldn't trust these people with a 5 year olds pocket money. Let's not leave out Edinburgh and their Trams to Nowhere. ‘SYSTEM WILL RUN AT LOSS UNTIL 2029’ EDINBURGH’S tram system will run at an operating loss until 2029, financial projections estimate. The project needed a start-up loan of £3 million but the city expects to receive £51m in payments and dividends over 15 years. However, it will pay out £85m in maintenance and refurbishment costs. By contrast, Lothian Buses – the trams bedfellow in Transport for Edinburgh – is set to generate a £33m dividend for the council over the same period. But when the costs of the tram scheme are included, profits drop to £5m. Any losses sustained will be absorbed by the council. Transport chiefs stress there will be “no financial impact” on the city’s much-loved bus service. http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/500-000-edinburgh-tram-journeys-in-first-month-1-3468414 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I once bought an undecided voter a pint on the condition he vote No Bribery IMO. Fifa esque revote IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I once bought an undecided voter a pint on the condition he vote No Bribery IMO. Fifa esque revote IMO. Sit down, Scrappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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