The Greenock Morton Thread - It's Better Than Yours

[Dunning1874]

Just take your greeny. Fackin'ell.

Pretty gutted that I typed all that only to be surpassed by the absolute genius of a mere five words from thomas 62, to be honest.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Dunning1874

[Branch Ton]

I genuinely admire your ability to be blindly optimistic and wish I could be as positive about the season as you, but surely you can admit yourself that this is entirely based on blind hope rather than any actual reasoning or evidence?

Regardless of your thoughts on the standard of the Championship in the grand scheme of football, what's actually relevant is the standard of the Championship in relation to League One. If you're seriously going to argue that the gulf isn't huge and that a team which won League One by two points is going to be fine in the Championship with almost the exact same squad, with new signings coming from other League One teams, you are deluding yourself. The gap between these divisions is the biggest in Scottish football and countless players have been a success in League One and failed miserably in the Championship. Many of our players were bang average in League One and we were far off the standard of sides who went on to be comfortably mid-table after winning League One.

We have four players (Gaston, Tidser, Forbes & MacDonald) who are proven in the Championship. We are relying on the rest of the squad adjusting to the step-up and doing so immediately. Even if by some ridiculous stroke of luck every single player is capable of making the transition, they need to be doing it from the first week of the season: if they all take the time to adjust to playing at a higher level that Stefan McCluskey did to adjust to League One last season we'll be relegated by the time we start playing well.

I do reckon some will manage it - Russell has great potential, if he's got Forbes and Tidser feeding him passes Barr should do well, I still think O'Ware and Miller have the potential to be solid centre backs at this level - but going into the season with the majority of your starting eleven being entirely untested at the level you're playing at is asking for trouble. That's why I entirely disagree that we are not any worse than other sides, who aside from Alloa all have far more players who are proven at this level or above.

For what it's worth I do feel that people are massively over-rating Raith. McKinnon's not a great manager, and while they've made some decent signings there's nothing so great to suggest they're capable of clawing back the gap on QoS and Falkirk. That said though, they're comfortably superior to us in personnel in defence and attack and I'd be amazed if McKinnon does such a bad job that they end up going so far backwards from where they were under Murray that they end up finishing bottom.

Alloa certainly could end up being worse than us. They've a squad full of unknown quantities and that can turn out to be a disaster, as it was for us two years ago. All of them being awful is our best hope of avoiding automatic relegation as it stands: if they are as bad as we were two years ago then we should have no problem finishing above them. Of course, it could turn out that Lennon's done a substantially better job than Moore did and some of them are actually capable players at this level who have enough to stay clear of relegation, so we can't be convinced of that - if half of them are good Championship players we're in trouble. We just have to wait and see, and the fact that we're relying on Alloa's new signings turning out to be shite for us to avoid tenth speaks volumes about how much of a disaster this summer has been.

Dumbarton have a far better squad than us, with players who are proven at this level or higher throughout the squad. Of course they'd still take Tidser, Forbes and MacDonald, but so would everyone other than Rangers and Hibs, it's the rest of our team that's the problem and they're considerably stronger than us. Barring some unexpected excellent signings in the next couple of weeks we'll be a long way behind them at the end of the season.

Livingston could implode financially but there's no guarantee it'll happen and we're clutching at straws if that's our reason to be hopeful of finishing eighth.

The only way Rangers will have any impact on us is they get liquidated during the season and no team is automatically relegated. Even if they were to go into administration they'd still be comfortably above us after a points deduction.

Tidser is one player. A terrific player who can deliver double figures in goals from midfield over a season and drag a team to results they wouldn't have a hope of getting without him, but regardless of how good he is he's not going to be able to do everything by himself. If MacDonald gets injured and we have no proper alternative, if we have a shapeless midfield through players being played out of position, if we have no holding midfielder protecting the defence and we have a defence full of League One players who haven't adjusted to the Championship we can't expect him to keep us up.

Yes, we still have signings to make, and indeed most sides in the division still haven't completed their squads. The difference is that other sides, with the exception of St. Mirren, are just needing one or two signings and they're good. We have no holding midfielder, we only have one out and out striker who as we've discussed needs real competition, the only right back at the club was out of his depth in League One, none of the defence are proven in the Championship, we've only two natural wide midfielders. We're short in all of those positions, but the assistant manager has explicitly said that we'll only get three more signings, which will leave us with a starting eleven that isn't good enough and a lack of cover.

Also, while if you're just needing one player it makes sense to wait for the right option to come along and no one wants us to rush in and fill the squad with non-entities because they're all that's available, when you're short in so many areas this late on you generally end up scrambling for anyone you can get in desperation. Yeah, you can end up with Declan McManus when that happens, but in the past it's seen us get Adam Coakley, Jay Shiels and Darren McGeough. And we're already offering six month contracts to players being brought in as cover because Duffy's not sure about them, when we need players coming in to improve the starting eleven.

Thanks for taking the time to make such a detailed reply. Good post, don't particularly disagree with any of it. I agree that our squad is nowhere near strong enough as yet. We need to be able to score and to do that early in games particularly at home. We could survive easily if we adopted the Tony Pulis high tempo pressing game but Tidser and Forbes are not suited to that so as I see it the only option is creativity, therefore we need strikers and a holding midfielder. As I said previously Frail said on the Celtic website weeks ago that Donnelly was going out on loan, would have thought if they have reneged we could have leveraged someone else. The Dutch boys just suggest a shambles.

Still think we spend too much time focusing on who is bad in our team and who is good in others and not vice versa.

[Phantom of the Chopra]

The Ton are going down.

[djchapsticks]

Yes, we still have signings to make, and indeed most sides in the division still haven't completed their squads. The difference is that other sides, with the exception of St. Mirren, are just needing one or two signings and they're good.

It's not for the want of trying. We had around 8 new trialists today in a bounce match against Burnley. That's not including the two ex-Burnley lads who have been offered deals and Shaun Rooney who is expecting to hear one way or another tonight or tomorrow. Others are still tied up one way or another and it's apparently just a waiting game for us.

By our gaffer's admission we're still at least 5 signings away from what he reckons the squad will look like on the first night at Ibrox.

[Branch Ton]

The Ton are going down.

Strong stuff that Scottish Joker shandy.

[Dunning1874]

It's not for the want of trying. We had around 8 new trialists today in a bounce match against Burnley. That's not including the two ex-Burnley lads who have been offered deals and Shaun Rooney who is expecting to hear one way or another tonight or tomorrow. Others are still tied up one way or another and it's apparently just a waiting game for us.

By our gaffer's admission we're still at least 5 signings away from what he reckons the squad will look like on the first night at Ibrox.

Aye, that's the other point I was going to make (because my posts aren't long enough as it is). While St. Mirren are also still needing plenty of signings, Murray has been extremely active in looking with a huge number of trialists having been with you throughout pre-season. You can say with confidence that if St. Mirren's squad isn't ready, it's because Murray's had a proper look at a good number of players and decided that some of of them aren't what he's looking for, while he has always had more trialists in to replace those he chooses not to offer a contract. That shows that he clearly has plenty of players in mind and is doing everything he can to get more players signed before competitive games begin, but won't rush into signing players just because they're all that's available.

Contrast this with Morton, who've had a grand total of two trialists all summer. We're told that Duffy's just playing the waiting game and has players in mind but has to wait and see if clubs are willing to let under contract players go or players holding out for bigger clubs will be willing to drop their demands as the window goes on. However there's bugger all evidence that he's actively trying to find players in case his other plans don't work out, while he's already desperate enough to chuck six month deals at the first two trialists who've appeared. Duffy said himself that he isn't looking at anyone other than the Dutch players at the moment which just smacks of total laziness. If, as people defending Duffy's performance over the summer argue, we're not going to be getting the other players he has in mind until later in the window, that amounts to writing off two cup competitions and the first four league games. Either way he's making a mess of it.

The two approaches are massively different and it's not encouraging for us at all.

[djchapsticks]

Aye, that's the other point I was going to make (because my posts aren't long enough as it is). While St. Mirren are also still needing plenty of signings, Murray has been extremely active in looking with a huge number of trialists having been with you throughout pre-season. You can say with confidence that if St. Mirren's squad isn't ready, it's because Murray's had a proper look at a good number of players and decided that some of of them aren't what he's looking for, while he has always had more trialists in to replace those he chooses not to offer a contract. That shows that he clearly has plenty of players in mind and is doing everything he can to get more players signed before competitive games begin, but won't rush into signing players just because they're all that's available.

Contrast this with Morton, who've had a grand total of two trialists all summer. We're told that Duffy's just playing the waiting game and has players in mind but has to wait and see if clubs are willing to let under contract players go or players holding out for bigger clubs will be willing to drop their demands as the window goes on. However there's bugger all evidence that he's actively trying to find players in case his other plans don't work out, while he's already desperate enough to chuck six month deals at the first two trialists who've appeared. Duffy said himself that he isn't looking at anyone other than the Dutch players at the moment which just smacks of total laziness. If, as people defending Duffy's performance over the summer argue, we're not going to be getting the other players he has in mind until later in the window, that amounts to writing off two cup competitions and the first four league games. Either way he's making a mess of it.

The two approaches are massively different and it's not encouraging for us at all.

A few of our fans are certainly at the knicker-wetting stage already over of B&WA over the high turnover of bodies. They seem to think because there is a plethora of trialists coming in and indeed, going out, that also constitutes laziness on Murray's part and a lack of clear direction over his actual targets. Most see it as the opposite, the vast majority of trialists will no doubt get the punt. If we started signing every single guy who came in for a few days, I'd start to worry. They system is being used by clubs like ours to try and uncover a rough gem or two in a multitude of undoubted shite.

As an example, he had a guy on trial a few weeks ago who seemed to have a decent enough pedigree. 6ft 5 Danish centre half, 30 years old, spent his career in the top division of Denmark and recently League 1 and 2 in England. Had him in to good reviews and decided to punt him as he tired badly towards the end of the weeks training and wasn't willing to go with someone at this stage he wasn't 100% confident about. Same with Steven Saunders as well, who patchy injury record aside, I'd have thought would be a great signing.

[stawner upper]

As Dunning said there are positives about your situation,Morton on the other hand only deal in the negative side and seem to lack any type of ambition...I am not wetting my knickers just now, I just feel let down by the whole way the club is going about its business

[Branch Ton]

As Dunning said there are positives about your situation,Morton on the other hand only deal in the negative side and seem to lack any type of ambition...I am not wetting my knickers just now, I just feel let down by the whole way the club is going about its business

Problem is we don't actually know how the club is going about its business. Whilst it is sensible that it does not conduct it's business in public the main issue for me is that the club is hopeless at setting and managing its own news. The website is useless. There is an occasional "exclusive" in the Telegraph but apart from that just Dougie and his megaphone. The potential signing of the Dutch boys has been appallingly presented. We are told that Donnelly would be signing on loan and the Celtic Development Team manager announces on the Celtid website over 14 days ago that Donnelly will be going out on loan to an unnamed club. We have a statement from Duffy that' Della may have changed his mind. Seems to me that the club should have set out its position rather more clearly and on its website. This though is followed by Donnelly actually playing against us when we have two unknown Dutch mercenaries on trial and providing neither the experience or the real positional cover we require..Donnelly's appearance seems insensitive at best if the loan is not going ahead. Would like to think that Duffy is not kicking up a stink because he is trying to blag something else. Had the Dutch lads been-brought in to a training camp early in the season fair enough but this introduction is so random as to suggest we have no strategy.

[stawner upper]

Fair enough comment,but the club seems to be in an absolute shambles,I mean from not getting season tickets by mid July (as promised) to the fiasco I have had with sponsoring players kits over the years! To be a fan of Morton and a good honest club supporter I feel as if we are treated with disregard and utter contempt and yet there are good football people the length and breadth of the country telling us the fans are the most important part of any club....maybe that message has not reached Cappielow yet! or maybe I am just a bit disgruntled at the way the commercial and public side of the club presents itself and deals with its customers but unfortunately I don't think I am the only person who thinks this.

Surely the club or Duffy could come out and say publicly that the club are involved or not actively involved in seeking players or trying to strengthen the playing squad and maybe giving our long suffering support some hope for the season ahead,because at the moment is there much to look forward to

[Branch Ton]

Fair enough comment,but the club seems to be in an absolute shambles,I mean from not getting season tickets by mid July (as promised) to the fiasco I have had with sponsoring players kits over the years! To be a fan of Morton and a good honest club supporter I feel as if we are treated with disregard and utter contempt and yet there are good football people the length and breadth of the country telling us the fans are the most important part of any club....maybe that message has not reached Cappielow yet! or maybe I am just a bit disgruntled at the way the commercial and public side of the club presents itself and deals with its customers but unfortunately I don't think I am the only person who thinks this.

Surely the club or Duffy could come out and say publicly that the club are involved or not actively involved in seeking players or trying to strengthen the playing squad and maybe giving our long suffering support some hope for the season ahead,because at the moment is there much to look forward to

Totally agree. I e-mailed the club early last week making comments and suggestions about the website general lack of information etc. no response whatsoever, not even a bland acknowledgement. This might just be excusable from a community club but Morton is effectively owned by a multimillion pound turnover confectionary group which has to market in a fairly competitive environment. Bizarre but probably underlines that we are still Dougies wee indulgence and not really a proper business.

[ShaggerG]

Aye, that's the other point I was going to make (because my posts aren't long enough as it is). While St. Mirren are also still needing plenty of signings, Murray has been extremely active in looking with a huge number of trialists having been with you throughout pre-season. You can say with confidence that if St. Mirren's squad isn't ready, it's because Murray's had a proper look at a good number of players and decided that some of of them aren't what he's looking for, while he has always had more trialists in to replace those he chooses not to offer a contract. That shows that he clearly has plenty of players in mind and is doing everything he can to get more players signed before competitive games begin, but won't rush into signing players just because they're all that's available.

Contrast this with Morton, who've had a grand total of two trialists all summer. We're told that Duffy's just playing the waiting game and has players in mind but has to wait and see if clubs are willing to let under contract players go or players holding out for bigger clubs will be willing to drop their demands as the window goes on. However there's bugger all evidence that he's actively trying to find players in case his other plans don't work out, while he's already desperate enough to chuck six month deals at the first two trialists who've appeared. Duffy said himself that he isn't looking at anyone other than the Dutch players at the moment which just smacks of total laziness. If, as people defending Duffy's performance over the summer argue, we're not going to be getting the other players he has in mind until later in the window, that amounts to writing off two cup competitions and the first four league games. Either way he's making a mess of it.

The two approaches are massively different and it's not encouraging for us at all.

Never mind, you'll be signing Paul Heffernan soon. Think that's a stick on!

[thomas 62]

More piss-poor excuses champ. Even in your fantasy island scenario where Jim Duffy specifically targets individuals in the other side to attack (he doesn't and can't), the onus is still on their defensive partner to recognise that threat and maintain an organised, competent defence. Which is supposedly the experience he would lend to our defence: he failed. His marked striker was taken down for a penalty and he was nowhere to be seen when McManus scored the winner.

Are you sure your a Morton supporter VT. Running down your own team even before the season starts. I think you are a secret Paisley "Buddie" sent to trawl other teams forums. If so they slipped up ,should have picked someone with a brain.

Edited July 23, 2015 by thomas 62

[Branch Ton]

More piss-poor excuses champ. Even in your fantasy island scenario where Jim Duffy specifically targets individuals in the other side to attack (he doesn't and can't), the onus is still on their defensive partner to recognise that threat and maintain an organised, competent defence. Which is supposedly the experience he would lend to our defence: he failed. His marked striker was taken down for a penalty and he was nowhere to be seen when McManus scored the winner.

Are you sure your a Morton supporter VT. Running down your own team even before the season starts. I think you are a secret Paisley "Buddie" sent to trawl other teams forums. If so they slipped up ,should have picked someone with a brain.

I think he must be because he certainly has no idea about what happened at Stranraer.

[The Moonster]

I think he must be because he certainly has no idea about what happened at Stranraer.

Stevie Aitken did have an idea of what happened at Stranraer. Funnily enough he now manages at this level and didn't make an offer for either of the centre backs he had last year. You think maybe he might have an idea if they were good enough for this level having played in it himself, even if it was a number of years ago?

Edited July 23, 2015 by The Moonster

[gmfc]

Or maybe he knew Mckeown was turning full-time just a thought.

[Branch Ton]

Stevie Aitken did have an idea of what happened at Stranraer. Funnily enough he now manages at this level and didn't make an offer for either of the centre backs he had last year. You think maybe he might have an idea if they were good enough for this level having played in it himself, even if it was a number of years ago?

Funny that given it was

Stevie Aitken did have an idea of what happened at Stranraer. Funnily enough he now manages at this level and didn't make an offer for either of the centre backs he had last year. You think maybe he might have an idea if they were good enough for this level having played in it himself, even if it was a number of years ago?

And you know he didn't how?

My comment was in relation to VT twisting what happened to rubbish McKeown. I have no strong views on him either way, wouldn't have been my first pick unless the only other option was someone on the way down due to injuries and who had only played 18 game in 2.years.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Branch Ton

[The Moonster]

Funny that given it was

And you know he didn't how?

My comment was in relation to VT twisting what happened to rubbish McKeown. I have no strong views on him either way, wouldn't have been my first pick unless the only other option was someone on the way down due to injuries and who had only played 18 game in 2.years.

Well, we had 3 centre backs signed up before Frank signed with you (I'm sure) and we're not on the look out for another. Rumsby signed up with Stranraer again so I'm assuming either he was offered a lot to stay at Stranraer or he didn't have offers from this league. As for Barr, it's possible for someone with his injury record and going part time to be offered something like a pay as you play deal. A fairly low risk signing. I don't know what Franks situation is with his Fireman's job but I imagine going full time has had an effect on it in some way. If he had the option to play at this level at part time I think he'd have done that. I could be wrong.

[SpoonTon]

Well, we had 3 centre backs signed up before Frank signed with you (I'm sure) and we're not on the look out for another. Rumsby signed up with Stranraer again so I'm assuming either he was offered a lot to stay at Stranraer or he didn't have offers from this league. As for Barr, it's possible for someone with his injury record and going part time to be offered something like a pay as you play deal. A fairly low risk signing. I don't know what Franks situation is with his Fireman's job but I imagine going full time has had an effect on it in some way. If he had the option to play at this level at part time I think he'd have done that. I could be wrong.

He had an offer from Alloa but knew this was his one and only change of full time football.

[stawner upper]

As far as the fire service was concerned,he has stated that as long as he keeps up to speed with fire fighting techniques and his training,he can take all the time away from the service he needs and when his full time football career comes to an end his place is still secured within it, fair enough I think from both parties