When will indyref2 happen?

[GTG_03]

I am only interested in what is good for Scotland and the UK as a whole. I prefer to stay in the UK. I am annoyed that the Independence referendum drum is being belted out constantly. By all means you keep the message going,but there has undoubtedly been a backlash against the SNP by the issue being constantly thrust in your face. People can be lead,but not driven. Keep the message subtle and it will seep through. Bide your time and Independence is inevitable. I have mentioned a few times that Independence doesn't scare me,but the way it is constantly thrown at us as seemingly the only issue in Scotland has made the likes of me recoil at it. It's a pity as there is definitely a hatred for the Tories up here,me included and the SNP haven't fully garnered that as they should have. Bloody mindedness on all sides has led to a supposed resurgence of the Tories up here, when under the present despicable Conservative party it should have been buried. Of course asaLabour voter and member it pains me to see that our party is a shambles up here. As for Labour under Corbyn re the UK, yes, they done well in the last election, but don't kid yourself. If the Tories get a half competent leader they will regaintheir majority at Westminster.

I agree many people are fed up with the constant independence discussion and that has been a successful tactic by dugdale,Davidson and Rennie. This played a huge part in the SNP's lower vote share in the election.

What really grates me is the pettiness of politicians though. For example Labour's shadow Scottish secretary refusing to give an answer on whether Scotland's first minister should have a part in the brexit discussion when Welsh Labour want carwyn Jones involved.

It's now at the stage where it doesn't even matter if politicians believe something or not, the SNP must be put down regardless of the consequence.

It is incredibly pathetic and frustrating to see. Plus it's only helping destroy Scottish Labour which I'm not bothered about at the moment as the party is full of snakes but it's not good for Scotland in the long run.

[AUFC90]

1 minute ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd String said:

I accept that was the case. But the constant Independence shouting since the referendum in people's face is a major factor in the SNP losing so many seats last month.

I'm not so sure, I'm very interested in politics and could barely get myself out to vote I was that interested. I just wanted to whole election to end. The SNP are seen as pretty much useless at Westminster which is factually correct and is down to the democratic set up of the UK. Holyrood is where it's at for the SNP and they are doing a great job imo. If people were turned off by tactics by unionist parties that were played precisely to turn people off then that's pretty much their own gullible fault. Also, I wonder how many people in Scotland will stick with Jeremy Corbyn once they realise that his position on the EU is just as bad and, almost impossibly so, more useless than the Tories. Shouting at rock concerts will only get them so far, especially up here.

[Shades75]

3 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd String said:

I accept that was the case. But the constant Independence shouting since the referendum in people's face is a major factor in the SNP losing so many seats last month.

As he said though, The Tories and Labour were the ones doing the shouting.  So their strategy has worked.

They basically ran the GE campaign up here by banging on about the SNP banging on about independence.  People were fed up of hearing about independence.  But lay people didn't pay enough attention as to who it was that was raising the subject and accepted the narrative of the unionist parties.  When it's repeated and regurgitated so relentlessly by the media, it's easy to see why those that are not that politically engaged would accept that the SNP can't shut up about it.  It must be true, everyone was saying it.  Even the same language was used by Dugdale, Davidson and Rennie.

A suspicious person might think that they came up with the term "divisive second referendum" together in a little room somewhere.  It was used repeatedly by all three, their party members and their literature.

It was a little depressing to see such a simple and disingenuous tactic work very well.  They simply manipulated people into believing what they wanted them to.

[Baxter Parp]

15 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd String said:

I accept that was the case. But the constant Independence shouting since the referendum in people's face is a major factor in the SNP losing so many seats last month.

It wasn't the SNP shouting in their face.

[Highlandmagyar 2nd String]

It wasn't the SNP shouting in their face.

If you mean by during the GE, then correct. But as soon as EU referendum result was announced the SNP went into overdrive regards a new referendum. The opposition parties done a better job of tapping into the soft no vote in the GE than SNP did and it cost them votes and seats. A year of constant in your face referendum calls only put soft no voters backs up and it was easy pickings for the Tories, and shamefully Labour walked right into Davidson's lair. Any Labour voters who cast a vote for a Tory should hang there head in shame.

[AUFC90]

10 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd String said:

If you mean by during the GE, then correct. But as soon as EU referendum result was announced the SNP went into overdrive regards a new referendum. The opposition parties done a better job of tapping into the soft no vote in the GE than SNP did and it cost them votes and seats. A year of constant in your face referendum calls only put soft no voters backs up and it was easy pickings for the Tories, and shamefully Labour walked right into Davidson's lair. Any Labour voters who cast a vote for a Tory should hang there head in shame.

That's unionists for you.

[Shades75]

2 hours ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd String said:

If you mean by during the GE, then correct. But as soon as EU referendum result was announced the SNP went into overdrive regards a new referendum. The opposition parties done a better job of tapping into the soft no vote in the GE than SNP did and it cost them votes and seats. A year of constant in your face referendum calls only put soft no voters backs up and it was easy pickings for the Tories, and shamefully Labour walked right into Davidson's lair. Any Labour voters who cast a vote for a Tory should hang there head in shame.

There wasn't a year of "constant in your face Referendum calls".  There were 9 months between the EU referendum and Theresa May calling a general election.  

In fact, there was only one referendum call from the SNP.

The SNP outlined in their manifesto the exact scenario that would lead to them calling for a second referendum.  Nobody expected that to happen but, unfortunately, it did.

At that point Sturgeon made it clear that the Referendum would take place when the details of the Brexit deal was know.  I.e. - not any time soon (from that point).  There was a fund raiser but no rallies and no co-ordinated campaigning from the SNP.  There were e-mails to members and letters etc.... but no door-knocking, street stalls and twice daily press calls.  When asked about a second independence referendum, of course the SNP outlined their desire and the course of action, and timescale, that Sturgeon had put in place. There was a bit of a storm, for a while, and Sturgeon was told repeatedly to "take it off the table".  When Sturgeon then goes to Theresa May to ask for the permission she is told "not at this time."  Remember, of course, that this is all happening at the same time as the Brexit vote has just been received and there is near wall-to-wall coverage of politics.

It was around that point that the combined forces of Davidson, Dugdale, Rennie, Mundell etc....came up with the "divisive second referendum" line and poured over the coverage and statements in the previous referendum to use as a stick, hence the "once in a generation line" was born, and it was used, still is, by all three parties.  They are mind-blowingly efficient in co-ordinating their defence, it has to be said.

Of course, then the GE is called and it is once again near relentless coverage of the minutiae of every party, leader, member etc.....so there is absolutely no escaping any issue, including a second referendum.

Now, in the above there are a few quotes from the unionists, which I have to think are pretty recognisable to everyone, at least those who watch the news or read newspapers. Can we say, with all honesty, that we can quote the Yes side so easily?

I don't think we can.

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Shades75

[NotThePars]

3 hours ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd String said:

I am only interested in what is good for Scotland and the UK as a whole. I prefer to stay in the UK. I am annoyed that the Independence referendum drum is being belted out constantly. By all means you keep the message going,but there has undoubtedly been a backlash against the SNP by the issue being constantly thrust in your face. People can be lead,but not driven. Keep the message subtle and it will seep through. Bide your time and Independence is inevitable. I have mentioned a few times that Independence doesn't scare me,but the way it is constantly thrown at us as seemingly the only issue in Scotland has made the likes of me recoil at it. It's a pity as there is definitely a hatred for the Tories up here,me included and the SNP haven't fully garnered that as they should have. Bloody mindedness on all sides has led to a supposed resurgence of the Tories up here, when under the present despicable Conservative party it should have been buried. Of course asaLabour voter and member it pains me to see that our party is a shambles up here. As for Labour under Corbyn re the UK, yes, they done well in the last election, but don't kid yourself. If the Tories get a half competent leader they will regaintheir majority at Westminster.

 

I'll stick the rest of my wages on a Labour majority at the next election in that case. 

[welshbairn]

2 hours ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd String said:

If you mean by during the GE, then correct. But as soon as EU referendum result was announced the SNP went into overdrive regards a new referendum. The opposition parties done a better job of tapping into the soft no vote in the GE than SNP did and it cost them votes and seats. A year of constant in your face referendum calls only put soft no voters backs up and it was easy pickings for the Tories, and shamefully Labour walked right into Davidson's lair. Any Labour voters who cast a vote for a Tory should hang there head in shame.

Have to say the Unionists played the GE perfectly by bringing independence to the fore. It's a shame that Labour found Unionism and giving SNP a slap more important than fighting the Tories, and having an identical approach on Brexit to the Tories.

Edited July 25, 2017 by welshbairn

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/tories-accuse-nicola-sturgeon-of-not-getting-on-with-the-day-job-1-4513696

These Tory f*ckers must be devastated that the Scottish NHS is out performing the rest of the UK, that the Scottish economy is out performing the UK, that crime rates in Scotland are much better than those in England and that SNP action over Scotrail means record satisfaction. 

They're f*cking devastated, so they roll out this tired, boring old shit. 

[Shades75]

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/tories-accuse-nicola-sturgeon-of-not-getting-on-with-the-day-job-1-4513696

These Tory f*ckers must be devastated that the Scottish NHS is out performing the rest of the UK, that the Scottish economy is out performing the UK, that crime rates in Scotland are much better than those in England and that SNP action over Scotrail means record satisfaction. 

They're f*cking devastated, so they roll out this tired, boring old shit. 

Interestingly and rather pertinent to a post I wrote earlier, in Murdo Fraser's press release, there it is....the magic three words ...

"Divisive second referendum"

I wonder, if just sometimes, even numb nuts like Fraser get a little tired of dumbing it down so much, so often.

[NotThePars]

30 minutes ago, Shades75 said:

Interestingly and rather pertinent to a post I wrote earlier, in Murdo Fraser's press release, there it is....the magic three words ...

"Divisive second referendum"

I wonder, if just sometimes, even numb nuts like Fraser get a little tired of dumbing it down so much, so often.

 

It must be frustrating when people are asking for press quotes when you're knee deep into Papal conspiracy posting on Follow Follow.

[Glen Sannox]

Interestingly and rather pertinent to a post I wrote earlier, in Murdo Fraser's press release, there it is....the magic three words ...
"Divisive second referendum"
I wonder, if just sometimes, even numb nuts like Fraser get a little tired of dumbing it down so much, so often.

If Murdo Fraser is "numb nuts", I'd hate to think what Pete Wishart, John Mason, Stewart Hosie, Angus MacNeil and the likes are!!

Dearie fucking me. The SNP just reeks of wallopers.

[Ira Gaines]

Glen Minter [emoji38]

[mjw]

Glen Minter.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I am only interested in what is good for Scotland and the UK as a whole. I prefer to stay in the UK. I am annoyed that the Independence referendum drum is being belted out constantly. By all means you keep the message going,but there has undoubtedly been a backlash against the SNP by the issue being constantly thrust in your face. People can be lead,but not driven. Keep the message subtle and it will seep through. Bide your time and Independence is inevitable. I have mentioned a few times that Independence doesn't scare me,but the way it is constantly thrown at us as seemingly the only issue in Scotland has made the likes of me recoil at it. It's a pity as there is definitely a hatred for the Tories up here,me included and the SNP haven't fully garnered that as they should have. Bloody mindedness on all sides has led to a supposed resurgence of the Tories up here, when under the present despicable Conservative party it should have been buried. Of course asaLabour voter and member it pains me to see that our party is a shambles up here. As for Labour under Corbyn re the UK, yes, they done well in the last election, but don't kid yourself. If the Tories get a half competent leader they will regaintheir majority at Westminster.

The people who have been banging the drum for months about IndyRef2 are not the SNP but the Scottish Tories aided and abetted by the shitebags in the Labour Party.

SNP manifesto - 8 mentions of IndyRef2.

Scottish Tory manifesto - 43 - forty fucking three - mentions of IndyRef2.

Who's fucking obsessed?

[John Lambies Doos]

The people who have been banging the drum for months about IndyRef2 are not the SNP but the Scottish Tories aided and abetted by the shitebags in the Labour Party.

SNP manifesto - 8 mentions of IndyRef2.

Scottish Tory manifesto - 43 - forty fucking three - mentions of IndyRef2.

Who's fucking obsessed?

Unfortunately people like Glen, mcspreader and fash will be too thick to understand that post

[bob the tank]

Doing the day job

[Sunrise]

12 hours ago, bob the tank said:

Doing the day job

Must admit I was reluctant tae share a lot of the tweets re Ruth Davidson's surgeries (or lack of them) as I remember Unionists saying Mhairi Black and other high-ranking SNPers weren't having surgeries - weeks after their first elections and hardly fair to compare...

[AUFC90]

1 hour ago, Sunrise said:

Must admit I was reluctant tae share a lot of the tweets re Ruth Davidson's surgeries (or lack of them) as I remember Unionists saying Mhairi Black and other high-ranking SNPers weren't having surgeries - weeks after their first elections and hardly fair to compare...

Well it's fair to compare now as they were both elected at the same time. It looks like Ruth doesn't have a day job never mind getting on with one. Photo ops and SNP bad is her day job.