When will indyref2 happen?

[carpetmonster]

4 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said:

 

Point out who I said they had power over please. Wouldn’t be like a Nat to make things up.

 

The UK have much more power to force issues and get exactly what they want

So the UK has power entirely on its own, that it can't use to get what it wants from anyone else. Sort of like me, in an empty house, having the power to force myself to get up and myself a cup of tea. Explain then, how this is useful. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by carpetmonster

[carpetmonster]

12 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said:

 

The UK has much more power than Scotland would have in trade negotiations and would have much more political power. It’s the 6th biggest economy in the world.

Everybody wants to trade with the UK, the majority want good relations with them. Scotland wouldn’t hold that power.

 

Ah, we're going with Scotland outside the EU bloc, then. OK. Or maybe not, maybe I'm putting words into your mouth again. 

Everybody wants to trade with the UK.

Who and, for what? You still seem to betting the whole farm on HP Sauce and crumpets.

 

ETA - or just crumpets; HP Sauce is now made in the Netherlands - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Sauce

Edited February 5, 2020 by carpetmonster

[carpetmonster]

1 minute ago, AB de Villiers said:

 

Scotland is unlikely to get back into the EU, and if it does gain independence (which will be around the 2030 mark at the extreme earliest, potentially never), it will take a number of years before it would regain EU membership. Nobody knows what the make up of the EU will be like then.

If the UK really did only trade ‘crumpets and HP sauce’, the EU would have told them to go and do one from the minute we voted to leave. However, you and I both know that isn’t the case, and anybody who does think that would either be very naive or posting in bad faith.

I think you might come under the latter category, given that you posted a blatant lie in each of your first two replies in an attempt to twist the argument in your favour.

Any Nat in future that does this will be completey ignored. If you’re going to debate, debate without lies and nursery insults.

 

Your first point flies in the face of every public statement the EU has made thus far. 

You've now avoided the 'who and what with' question on 5 individual replies, and instead told me I'm posting in bad faith. 

Right so. 

[jamamafegan]

I think most unionists online are trolls for the simple reason that I haven’t seen a single one put forward a positive case for the Union. Never, not once. They only seem to be interested in belittling people that simply want to see Scotland govern their own affairs and be an independent country like the majority of others around the world. They treat it as if it’s some absolutely wacky idea when in reality there’s nothing insane about it at all - it’s a completely normal concept.

I’d treat the likes of Tarmo, Mintermind and their pals with a bit more respect if they actually presented a positive case for being in the UK, but they never do - they just bang on about the SNP and frequently engage in Scottish stereotyping. There’s not really any point in trying to convince these guys because they will never accept Scottish independence. Mintermind in particular seems to hate everything that is Scottish anyway, which is clear to see not only in the politics forum but across the forums where he doesn’t attempt to hide his utter contempt for Scottish Football and his raging hard on for the “Barclays.” A truly tragic individual.

Then you’ve got guys like Glenminter, Malky and Tarmo - all banned from the forum for the nonsense they spout in the politics section. It speaks volumes when it’s the unionists that are getting banned and not the pro yes posters. The difference is the pro yes side generally don’t behave like a bunch of horrible arseholes.

[Anonapersona]

2 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

I think most unionists online are trolls for the simple reason that I haven’t seen a single one put forward a positive case for the Union. Never, not once. They only seem to be interested in belittling people that simply want to see Scotland govern their own affairs and be an independent country like the majority of others around the world. They treat it as if it’s some absolutely wacky idea when in reality there’s nothing insane about it at all - it’s a completely normal concept.

I’d treat the likes of Tarmo, Mintermind and their pals with a bit more respect if they actually presented a positive case for being in the UK, but they never do - they just bang on about the SNP and frequently engage in Scottish stereotyping. There’s not really any point in trying to convince these guys because they will never accept Scottish independence. Mintermind in particular seems to hate everything that is Scottish anyway, which is clear to see not only in the politics forum but across the forums where he doesn’t attempt to hide his utter contempt for Scottish Football and his raging hard on for the “Barclays.” A truly tragic individual.

Then you’ve got guys like Glenminter, Malky and Tarmo - all banned from the forum for the nonsense they spout in the politics section. It speaks volumes when it’s the unionists that are getting banned and not the pro yes posters. The difference is the pro yes side generally don’t behave like a bunch of horrible arseholes.

This is something I've noticed in the 20 years since I left Scotland. It always used to be that Scots were quite proud of our little nation but now it's filled with people who constantly put it down. Even people who despise the tories have this mentality that anything is better than Scots being in charge of Scotland. It's beyond pathetic.

Whenever anything positive was said about Scotland, Malky was in there, scrambling to put Scotland back in its box.  He was the poster child for this type unionism and the others on here are pretty much clones of him.

[Anonapersona]

Just now, AB de Villiers said:

 

Saying Scotland won’t have the trading power of the UK and being a Unionist doesn’t mean you hate Scotland ffs. Just because somebody doesn’t agree with your pro-indy views, doesn’t mean they are sub-human scum like you try to portray. It’s beyond embarrassing.

 

Sub human scum?

Really?

f**k off with the drama queen stuff please.

[carpetmonster]

16 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said:

 

If you go back to my reply to Pandarilla on the previous page, you’ll see that I have outlined several reasons why I would be worried post-independence. I have posted these views several times, and none have been answered.

 

 

I mentioned that the said poster thinks Ukraine and Russia are normal countries, so I think I’d pass on his views on the way forward for Scotland and the UK. That’s entirely reasonable. The sexual assault thing was a bit more personal, but given that WATTOO said he’d batter me in ‘real life’, I think I am entitled to that. Repeating “Scotland will get to decide it’s own future” in several different ways does not make a good post. WATTOO’s post translates as, ‘let’s take a gamble, a risk, at least it will be OUR risk’, which doesn’t sound too promising to me.

It’s also been mentioned that the currency issue is sorted, I don’t recall this, and I’d be interested to hear as it’s one of my main worries about an independent Scotland. Scotland would unquestionably lose political power and nobody can be certain on the trade agreements we would be able to achieve. I’d also worry about the rate that businesses would leave Scotland. Without sounding a bit Malky here, Scotland spends much more than it makes, and if the answer to that is yet another increase in tax for myself and others, an independent Scotland wouldn’t be financially attractive for myself. These are just a handful of different reasons why people won’t want independence, and none of them have been answered by Nats on here. That’s why you all have the bad reputation, it’s just insults from the off.

 

This one? OK. Again, you're taking Scotland outside the EU, which I don't think anyone else is, or certainly the vast majority of folks aren't. Yes, I agree, currency should be sorted definitively. I'd imagine that international (and RUk businesses whose trade isn't entirely domestic) businesses would be more likely to relocate into a Scotland in the EU than into an RUk outside of it. As explained to Malky pretty often, we've got no way of ascertaining that Scotland spends any more than it makes, if indeed it does at all. Three isn't a handful.    

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by carpetmonster

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Saying Scotland won’t have the trading power of the UK and being a Unionist doesn’t mean you hate Scotland ffs. Just because somebody doesn’t agree with your pro-indy views, doesn’t mean they are sub-human scum like you try to portray. It’s beyond embarrassing.

More or less embarrassing than begging a mod to ban your account because you made an arse of yourself on your own thread?

[Anonapersona]

Just now, AB de Villiers said:

 

Yes. I have seen myself and others be labelled as ‘c***s’ and ‘dribbling simpletons’ for our political views on here.

Nats playing the victim card won’t work here, for years their entire campaign has been built on aggression, belittling and complete ignorance of anyone elses views. Anyone that didn’t want independence has been looked down on, insulted and ridiculed. It really is a staggering lack of self-awareness for any Nat to try and claim that Unionists don’t put forward any proper arguments on independence, I have put forward several and none have been answered. I’m still to see a positive post from a Nat, other than something negative towards Westminster or the Tories and ‘bring back our country’ type posts.

 

Spare me your garbage.

Your reputation on here is justified.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Sub human scum?
Really?
f**k off with the drama queen stuff please.

Its quite funny he uses a partridge quote when he’s the exact type of person that they intended to mock with the character.

[carpetmonster]

Just now, AB de Villiers said:

 

You can’t just totally ignore the possibility of Scotland outside the EU, given that’s where an independent Scotland would start off, and likely remain.

 

I can work out by every public statement that the EU have made, that Scotland would not likely remain outside the EU. 

[Mastermind]

I think most unionists online are trolls for the simple reason that I haven’t seen a single one put forward a positive case for the Union. Never, not once. They only seem to be interested in belittling people that simply want to see Scotland govern their own affairs and be an independent country like the majority of others around the world. They treat it as if it’s some absolutely wacky idea when in reality there’s nothing insane about it at all - it’s a completely normal concept.

I’d treat the likes of Tarmo, Mintermind and their pals with a bit more respect if they actually presented a positive case for being in the UK, but they never do - they just bang on about the SNP and frequently engage in Scottish stereotyping. There’s not really any point in trying to convince these guys because they will never accept Scottish independence. Mintermind in particular seems to hate everything that is Scottish anyway, which is clear to see not only in the politics forum but across the forums where he doesn’t attempt to hide his utter contempt for Scottish Football and his raging hard on for the “Barclays.” A truly tragic individual.

Then you’ve got guys like Glenminter, Malky and Tarmo - all banned from the forum for the nonsense they spout in the politics section. It speaks volumes when it’s the unionists that are getting banned and not the pro yes posters. The difference is the pro yes side generally don’t behave like a bunch of horrible arseholes.

The Scottish National Party haven’t in any way provided satisfactory evidence or guarantees that we’ll be either the same or better off breaking away from the UK. It really is that simple. No other positive case for the Union is required.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I mean, this is the last personal attack from a Nat that I’ll reply to, but that thread was always going to be deleted before number 1, infact there wasn’t even a number 1. The said mod knew this.

I’m not going to take a lecture from somebody who changed their forum name because they were offering square-goes over the internet though, Jupe.

Offering posters square goes [emoji23]

#triggeredtarmo

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Its quite funny he uses a partridge quote when he’s the exact type of person that they intended to mock with the character.

Bishop Briggs levels of self awareness.

[carpetmonster]

Just now, AB de Villiers said:

Really? I don’t know what public statements you have been viewing but up until a sympathetic interview with Donald Tusk a week ago, it didn’t look good for Scotland. Regardless, instant membership has been ruled out, so Scotland would have a few years in limbo anyway.

It seems that Scottish Nationalists are basing their entire campaign on the hope that the EU might let them back in.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/an-independent-scotland-in-europe-brexit-snp-conference-nicola-sturgeon

https://www.dw.com/en/top-eu-lawmaker-raises-prospect-of-easy-scottish-return-to-eu/a-51828670

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1227702/nicola-sturgeon-news-scotland-independence-second-referendum-guy-verhofstadt-spt

 

The last EU heavyweight who said it would be difficult for an independent Scotland to join the EU was Barroso, in 2014. Verhofstadt ascertained the opposite in 2016, so it's been about three and a half years prior to last week.  

[The Moonster]

18 minutes ago, AB de Villiers said:

 

You can’t just totally ignore the possibility of Scotland outside the EU, given that’s where an independent Scotland would start off, and likely remain.

 

Why wouldn't Scotland be welcomed into the EU?

[Dan Steele]

2 hours ago, AB de Villiers said:

The UK have much more power to force issues and get exactly what they want. The EU sadly know this and are playing along with the games. They would give Scotland one chance and one chance only. The UK is a much more attractive proposition for businesses than an independent Scotland, I would worry about Scotland’s economy if they left, especially with Nicola’s spending habits.

The UK getting exactly what it wants? Is this a whoosh? 

It'll be up to the SG to make inward investment attractive. An independent country setting sail for the future might be seen as more attractive than the backward looking, insular, and xenophobic UK government.

Nicola's spending habits? You think she would run the economy? OK you are on the wind-up.

[yoda]

He's got a point on the EU membership 'limbo'. It's not as if on day two of independence we'll be joining the EU.

[carpetmonster]

1 minute ago, yoda said:

He's got a point on the EU membership 'limbo'. It's not as if on day two of independence we'll be joining the EU.

However, by that point, Scotland will actually know what her fiscal state is from completing the UK divorce agreement and can budget accordingly. 

[carpetmonster]

1 minute ago, AB de Villiers said:

Spain have flipflopped between vetoing and not vetoing Scotland’s entry. Scotland also isn’t getting independence during Boris’ reign, so you’re looking at close to 2030 before indyref2. We have absolutely no idea how the EU will look at that time, and the UK may have inspired several other countries to break away.

Thus far, the UK is having the direct opposite effect and inspiring other countries not to be so silly - https://www.france24.com/en/20190524-dutch-pro-eu-forces-surprise-surge-against-populists-european-elections