When will indyref2 happen?

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

3 minutes ago, G51 said:

I don't think you understand. This is political and financial self-determination from Scotland and the UK.

It's not a case of the Northern Isles having "more devolved powers", it's a case of Shetland becoming an independent country. The resolution was even supported by the SNP councillor.

Now there's a long way to go between now and then, and in all likelihood it's used for leverage for more powers from Holyrood. But it's the first (of many to come, I suspect) example of a Highlands and Islands community pushing for independence.

I think I do understand it. As I pointed out in my last sentence, while more powers for the islands is a good, and even necessary...and hence the reason why the SNP councillor supports it... this smacks of nothing more than a daft political stunt by a group of LibDems who have previous for this whenever the SNP are growing more popular.

Anyone who takes this seriously is absolutely nuts. There is absolutely no real support in the islands for 'independence'. 

 

[Pocketman]

23 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

It was actually Chic Murrays and a favourite of mine, along wi a drunk Chic staggering and then falling onto his back in the afternoon with a woman standing over him shouting he was a disgrace for being drunk and Chic answered 'I'm not drunk woman, I'm trying to break a bar of chocolate in my back pocket'

ok. I misunderstood - it appeared that you tried to pass it off as something that happened to you/was said to you by a beggar.

[G51]

14 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I think I do understand it. As I pointed out in my last sentence, while more powers for the islands is a good, and even necessary...and hence the reason why the SNP councillor supports it... this smacks of nothing more than a daft political stunt by a group of LibDems who have previous for this whenever the SNP are growing more popular.

Anyone who takes this seriously is absolutely nuts. There is absolutely no real support in the islands for 'independence'. 

 

there are zero lib dem councillors in the shetland islands council. there are 22 members, 21 independents and 1 snp.

political self-determination was included in three councillors manifestos in 2017.

like i said, independence from scotland and the uk is unlikely, and what likely ends up happening is some form of new islands act (one that actually means something this time). but it might just be the start of a resource-rich region realising it doesn't need to transfer control of those resources to the central belt.

[Stellaboz]

Because they'd be yet another country that would qualify for something before Scotland did again. 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 hour ago, G51 said:

I don't think you understand. This is political and financial self-determination from Scotland and the UK.

It's not a case of the Northern Isles having "more devolved powers", it's a case of Shetland becoming an independent country. The resolution was even supported by the SNP councillor.

Now there's a long way to go between now and then, and in all likelihood it's used for leverage for more powers from Holyrood. But it's the first (of many to come, I suspect) example of a Highlands and Islands community pushing for independence.

As others have said if it's what is generally wanted then I'm all for it. But if it does prove to be used for leverage, it's not exactly a community pushing for independence is it? Fair play to the treeless folk either way

[Miguel Sanchez]

1 hour ago, G51 said:

I don't think you understand. This is political and financial self-determination from Scotland and the UK.

It's not a case of the Northern Isles having "more devolved powers", it's a case of Shetland becoming an independent country. The resolution was even supported by the SNP councillor.

Now there's a long way to go between now and then, and in all likelihood it's used for leverage for more powers from Holyrood. But it's the first (of many to come, I suspect) example of a Highlands and Islands community pushing for independence.

[oneteaminglasgow]

22 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

Because they'd be yet another country that would qualify for something before Scotland did again. 

Aye, but it’ll be a great laugh when Rangers/Hearts/whoever get dumped out the Europa League by FC Lerwick.

All for it, assuming the majority of Shetland want it.

[SandyCromarty]

1 hour ago, MixuFruit said:

Shetland gets a proportion of oil money that goes through Sullom Voe doesn't it? The roads are all absolutely pot hole free because they have dough to spend. I'm all for them getting more of whatever they want, including total independence tbh. Why not?

So far almost £2 billion which has been well spent by Shetland Council throughout the islands, and that will continue well after the east Shetland basin is completely depleted as their are massive reserves to the west of Shetland, BP'S Claire field for example.

It's a pity that Scotland didn't follow the example set by Shetland, possibly if they had we might be pot hole free also??

[G51]

40 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Aye, but it’ll be a great laugh when Rangers/Hearts/whoever get dumped out the Europa League by FC Lerwick.

All for it, assuming the majority of Shetland want it.

To be fair to Lerwick Spurs, they did get to the final of the Highland Amateur Cup in 2018, but were beaten by the Stabs.

So I'm sure they could easily take Motherwell to extra time in the first round of the Europa Conference League qualifying

[Wee-Bey]

With a population of circa 22,000, Shetland would be the 5th smallest country in the world.

[btb]

Shetland. If they don't want us, I don't want them, what do they want though - UDI, to be with England, but throwing a curveball if I was them I'd throw in my lot with Norway!

[yoda]

There's a lot of terrible - and I mean genuinely awful and poorly informed - takes in this sub-forum but the prediction of a Caithness Autonomous Region might be the high point of terrible takes 

[G51]

13 minutes ago, yoda said:

There's a lot of terrible - and I mean genuinely awful and poorly informed - takes in this sub-forum but the prediction of a Caithness Autonomous Region might be the high point of terrible takes 

Who mentioned Caithness in this?

[Dunfermline Don]

There's a lot of terrible - and I mean genuinely awful and poorly informed - takes in this sub-forum but the prediction of a Caithness Autonomous Region might be the high point of terrible takes 

We could have a truly Federal Scotland with other regional capitals at the historically ones, Dunfermline, Dumbarton, Perth , Etc.
The Kingdom of Fife could fully come into existence again with Sammy the Tammy the new monarch. [emoji6]

[DeeTillEhDeh]

It always amuses me that Britnats push the independent Shetland line - there is little real evidence that there is any appetite for such a move.

 

There has not been a candidate from the Orkney & Shetland Movement since 1987 - they polled 13%.

 

Last poll had support for Orkney & Shetland independence, if Scotland were independent, at 8%.

 

You can genuinely smell the fear from these fuckers.

 

 

[SandyCromarty]

2 hours ago, yoda said:

There's a lot of terrible - and I mean genuinely awful and poorly informed - takes in this sub-forum but the prediction of a Caithness Autonomous Region might be the high point of terrible takes 

And this beauty takes the misinformed geographical prize.

Who moved Shetland to Caithness.

Dearie me.

[SandyCromarty]

51 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

It always amuses me that Britnats push the independent Shetland line - there is little real evidence that there is any appetite for such a move.

 

There has not been a candidate from the Orkney & Shetland Movement since 1987 - they polled 13%.

 

Last poll had support for Orkney & Shetland independence, if Scotland were independent, at 8%.

 

You can genuinely smell the fear from these fuckers.

 

 

Your figures are correct but wasn't there some sort of SNP government declaration a few years back on transfer of power to Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles.

And I may be wrong here but I thought there was some calls for Western Isles devolution, correct me on that one if I've got that wrong.

Just for clarification, the Western Isles are not in Caithness.

[G51]

I think the folk from the Central Belt need to understand that this is nothing to do with some covert plan to remain in the UK (how would that even work anyway), and everything to do with devolving powers away from Holyrood and London and into the hands of local communities, who feel that both Parliaments are out of touch with these areas.

If/when an independent Scotland happens (an inevitability in my opinion, and something I'd favour), you're going to have a situation where the Central Belt becomes dominant over the rest of the country. Of Scotlands 5.5m population, 3.5m live in the Central Belt. Every policy made will be tailored for the Central Belt, just like it currently is. And that's fine - if you live there.

This is not unique to Scotland either. Ireland makes decisions that disproportionately benefit the Greater Dublin area, hence the huge increase in wealth for people who live there. England does the same with London.

But in Scotland, the Highlands is rich in the resources that will matter over the next Century - water, land and clean energy. The majority of clean energy produced in Scotland is produced in this region. This is somewhere that should be thriving. And yet these communities watch as powers are actually taken *away* from them by Westminster and Holyrood. If rural communities are to survive then they need to be able to make themselves attractive to incomers and the people raised there, and right now they aren't. All the power is in Holyrood and London, and soon it'll all be in Holyrood.

Fundamentally, this is what the move by SIC is all about - to try and regain some of these powers and put them in the hands of local communities. And if Holyrood / the Central Belt refuses to devolve power, then they'll be left with no choice but to campaign and win independence.

[NotThePars]

This is all a moot point as when I manoeuvre myself into the post-indy government with a Minister of the Regions remit I will be taking a Stalinist approach and cutting off any further devolution or secessionism at the knees.

[Gordon EF]

12 minutes ago, G51 said:

I think the folk from the Central Belt need to understand that this is nothing to do with some covert plan to remain in the UK (how would that even work anyway), and everything to do with devolving powers away from Holyrood and London and into the hands of local communities, who feel that both Parliaments are out of touch with these areas.

If/when an independent Scotland happens (an inevitability in my opinion, and something I'd favour), you're going to have a situation where the Central Belt becomes dominant over the rest of the country. Of Scotlands 5.5m population, 3.5m live in the Central Belt. Every policy made will be tailored for the Central Belt, just like it currently is. And that's fine - if you live there.

This is not unique to Scotland either. Ireland makes decisions that disproportionately benefit the Greater Dublin area, hence the huge increase in wealth for people who live there. England does the same with London.

But in Scotland, the Highlands is rich in the resources that will matter over the next Century - water, land and clean energy. The majority of clean energy produced in Scotland is produced in this region. This is somewhere that should be thriving. And yet these communities watch as powers are actually taken *away* from them by Westminster and Holyrood. If rural communities are to survive then they need to be able to make themselves attractive to incomers and the people raised there, and right now they aren't. All the power is in Holyrood and London, and soon it'll all be in Holyrood.

Fundamentally, this is what the move by SIC is all about - to try and regain some of these powers and put them in the hands of local communities. And if Holyrood / the Central Belt refuses to devolve power, then they'll be left with no choice but to campaign and win independence.

I'd agree with all of that. I think what some folk take issue with is the whole whole unionist "Aye but if Scotland get's independence, Shetland will just leave". I haven't seen one indpendence supporter who has a problem with more local autonomy or for the people who live on Shetland, for example, to decide what they do constitutionally.

I don't think anyone's ideal scenario for an independent Scotland is some kind of Central Belt tyranny, given that having power closer to the people it effects is one of the main reasons people support independence. Of course it's difficult to avoid the impression that the vast majority of funds will got to the Central Belt because, frankly, they always will. But I think most independence supporters will be accutely aware that it's very important to distribute power and funding fairly and proportionately to areas that are maybe further away from the big population centres.