When will indyref2 happen?

[williemillersmoustache]

49 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Could it be 'realpolitik? In the same way Alex Salmond regularly worked with the Tories between 2007-11 to 'get things done'..same idea..either have a roadblock or get some policies passed. 

This would only be true if there was no way to form a working majority without tory support so not applicable if in fact this "realpolitik" was really just a way to exclude the largest party from office.

45 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I'm neither Jedi nor a Labour supporter, but if I had to guess, it might be that a significant part of it would be that London Labour fear being slaughtered by the Tory supporting media for them "getting into bed" with the SNP. 

This, but why are the Labour /left not slaughtering them for rutting like beasts with their ideological opposites*

 

*The real reason is that in terms of ideology and policy they are closer to the Tories than the SNP. And you could still use the residual SLab seethe generated from punting these grasping theiving wankers into touch in 2015 and out of office across Scottish councils to power the large hadron collider. For 100 years. 

[KirkieRR]

2 hours ago, Jedi said:

Could it be 'realpolitik? In the same way Alex Salmond regularly worked with the Tories between 2007-11 to 'get things done'..same idea..either have a roadblock or get some policies passed. 

2007-11 Was not Coalition as you well know, although trying to make the comparison is cheap whataboutery.

 

2 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

London Labour fear being slaughtered by the Tory supporting media for them "getting into bed" with the SNP. 

London Labour are absurdly terrified by the rightwing media. I sometimes think they are the only people who take the Daily Mail seriously. I've heard umpteen Labourites seriously suggesting that's why they can't suggest reversing Brexit. 'The rightwing media would slaughter us'.

 

The thing is, the rightwing media would slaughter them whatever. Fortunately the print media have very little influence these days. Whatever you think of the SNP, they have almost no media support at all (The National? Don't make me laff) but keep winning. Perhaps if Labour talked to them they might find out how to win despite the media - and in any case dahn saff they have the Mirror and the Graunbore batting for them.

[Bad Wolf]

I haven't worked out how to quote multiple posts, so this is a question for Granny, Welshbairn and HighlandMagar - aside from the divisiveness one of you mentioned (which I can see) what is so unpalatable about Jo Cherry as SNP leader? I'm not being chippy, I'm genuinely interested. 

[Guest Jedi]

1 hour ago, KirkieRR said:

2007-11 Was not Coalition as you well know, although trying to make the comparison is cheap whataboutery.

 

London Labour are absurdly terrified by the rightwing media. I sometimes think they are the only people who take the Daily Mail seriously. I've heard umpteen Labourites seriously suggesting that's why they can't suggest reversing Brexit. 'The rightwing media would slaughter us'.

 

The thing is, the rightwing media would slaughter them whatever. Fortunately the print media have very little influence these days. Whatever you think of the SNP, they have almost no media support at all (The National? Don't make me laff) but keep winning. Perhaps if Labour talked to them they might find out how to win despite the media - and in any case dahn saff they have the Mirror and the Graunbore batting for them.

As said earlier no-one is suggesting 'reversing' Brexit anymore (despite Remain sentiment now polling 'consistently higher than support for Independence). The SNP's we will rejoin the EU 'sometime' isn't the same things as clamouring for a 2nd Ref on the issue..(and the currency plan to do so is still a mess  keep Sterling, 'maybe' for up to 10 years, then 'maybe' issue a Scottish currency 'or' join the Euro.

So, for the Labour Party to enter the GE promising to 'reverse' Brexit in one go doesn't make sense. Further down the line maybe.

On the point of Lab being closer to the Tories (economically)...they aren't...it is rather the SNP's plans to wield the axe on public services post-Independence which is 'Tory-like' and is an inconvenient truth.

No, 2007-11 wasn't a 'coalition' with the Tories, but it was most certainly a working with them to pass budgets etc.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Jedi

[KirkieRR]

If you think no one is suggesting reversing Brexit there's one reason why Labour are deid in the watter.

 

No one, incidentally, mentioned reversing Brexit 'in one go' but you- classic straw man, there. However, Knighthood Boy has been ruling out even small rapprochement like free movement, agreements on immigration, single market etc.

 

And while I'm not an SNP apologist, I do notice the misrepresentation and misdirection and plain fibs in your post when you discuss their policies.

 

Clearly you have the ScoLabour riff: "Scotland is ours, stopping voting for us is something our hundreds of thousands of former supporters did to us, the baskets, and because most of them now vote for Indy parties we 1) innuendo that they're FACISTZ and 2) expect being called FACISTZ will persuade them to vote for us again."

 

Aye, right, Labour.

[ICTJohnboy]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

I haven't worked out how to quote multiple posts, so this is a question for Granny, Welshbairn and HighlandMagar - aside from the divisiveness one of you mentioned (which I can see) what is so unpalatable about Jo Cherry as SNP leader? I'm not being chippy, I'm genuinely interested. 

 

Just click on the + sign to the left of Quote.

 

[Granny Danger]

3 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I haven't worked out how to quote multiple posts, so this is a question for Granny, Welshbairn and HighlandMagar - aside from the divisiveness one of you mentioned (which I can see) what is so unpalatable about Jo Cherry as SNP leader? I'm not being chippy, I'm genuinely interested. 

I also see Cherry as divisive and that’s probably the last thing we need for the Westminster leadership.  The SNP is undoubtedly in a tricky situation whereby it requires leadership in two Parliaments whilst being clear there is definitely only one real Party leader.  I could see Cherry trying to undermine Sturgeon which could prove disastrous.

She has also voiced her support for Alex Salmond, a man who would be happy to see both the SNP and it’s current leadership damaged.

Her position on transgender rights seems to have also drawn criticism but as it’s an issue of which I’ve got very limited knowledge I cannot personally be too critical.

Sadly there seems to be a dearth of talent amongst the SNP group at Westminster.  There also appears to be a sad lack of information about the political views of likely candidates.

 

 

[btb]

George Galloway in the Daily Express

Quote

SNP unravel as Blackford resignation marks beginning of the end of 'Sturgeon era'I 

Strange bedfellows....

[sophia]

5 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I haven't worked out how to quote multiple posts, so this is a question for Granny, Welshbairn and HighlandMagar - aside from the divisiveness one of you mentioned (which I can see) what is so unpalatable about Jo Cherry as SNP leader? I'm not being chippy, I'm genuinely interested. 

I'm assuming you are trolling but just in case you are struggling to keep up ..

 

And this.

Anyone that edges to the extremes in this debate is either a bigot or using it for their own means.

 

That's just a few hours worth.

Clever doesn't equal wise.

[Guest Jedi]

3 hours ago, KirkieRR said:

And while I'm not an SNP apologist, I do notice the misrepresentation and misdirection and plain fibs in your post when you discuss their policies.

Can you explain Andrew Wilson's Growth Commission proposal to significantly cut back on public spending and the funding of public services (a proposal which has been repeated in the more recent Building a New Scotland, and which part of these documents-all there for anyone to read is a misrepresentation of the SNP's plans for the first 10 years of Independence?

Also, what is the current currency plan? We have heard about using Sterling for an undefined period, and then moving to options including the Euro 'or' a Scottish currency. So which is it? 

[Guest Jedi]

3 hours ago, KirkieRR said:

we 1) innuendo that they're FACISTZ and 2) expect being called FACISTZ will persuade them to vote for us again."

 

Starmer and Labour are regularly called worse on here as an attempt to paint them as generally to the right of the Tories on most things.

[sophia]

11 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Can you explain Andrew Wilson's Growth Commission proposal to significantly cut back on public spending and the funding of public services (a proposal which has been repeated in the more recent Building a New Scotland, and which part of these documents-all there for anyone to read is a misrepresentation of the SNP's plans for the first 10 years of Independence?

Also, what is the current currency plan? We have heard about using Sterling for an undefined period, and then moving to options including the Euro 'or' a Scottish currency. So which is it? 

You have omitted to include closing brackets.

Your parentheses would be proud.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Can you explain Andrew Wilson's Growth Commission proposal to significantly cut back on public spending and the funding of public services (a proposal which has been repeated in the more recent Building a New Scotland, and which part of these documents-all there for anyone to read is a misrepresentation of the SNP's plans for the first 10 years of Independence?
Also, what is the current currency plan? We have heard about using Sterling for an undefined period, and then moving to options including the Euro 'or' a Scottish currency. So which is it? 

You need to keep up to date - the 'Economics of Independence' paper clearly moves away from the Growth Commission recommendations.

Yes - there are areas where there needs to be more meat on the bone. But it certainly is a good starting point. I see it as a way of opening up and having an honest discussion about Scotland's economic future in a grown up manner.

[Guest Jedi]

3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

You need to keep up to date - the 'Economics of Independence' paper clearly moves away from the Growth Commission recommendations.

'sound public finances' and 'fiscal rules informed by best financial practice' as well as placing a limit on borrowing for day to day spending, and debt. From the Economics of Independence paper.

So, where does the funding come from? Is it cuts to public services or tax rises?

[GTee]

Personally I vote for the SNP, purely for their stance on independence. A bit of self respect I feel at the polling station.

Their record in government probably matches the governments in the rest of the UK. So nothing to complain about there.

With independence, it seems logical that we could have better outcomes with a government beholden to the voters of the country. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[git-intae-thum]

4 hours ago, Jedi said:

'sound public finances' and 'fiscal rules informed by best financial practice' as well as placing a limit on borrowing for day to day spending, and debt. From the Economics of Independence paper.

So, where does the funding come from? Is it cuts to public services or tax rises?

Where does the funding come from for the UK government's spend policies?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

'sound public finances' and 'fiscal rules informed by best financial practice' as well as placing a limit on borrowing for day to day spending, and debt. From the Economics of Independence paper.
So, where does the funding come from? Is it cuts to public services or tax rises?

You've just shown what a fucking economic illiterate you are.

That's good practice for any government of any political colour.

[Wee-Bey]

[Jupiter Jazz]

22 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

 I see it as a way of opening up and having an honest discussion about Scotland's economic future in a grown up manner.

 

10 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

You've just shown what a fucking economic illiterate you are.

[Lex]

You've just shown what a fucking economic illiterate you are.

That's good practice for any government of any political colour.

Talk us all through this conclusion.
With working.