When will indyref2 happen?

[Cream Cheese]

50 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

It was Scotland's idea to form the Union all those years ago.

No it wasn't. It was the idea of a few heavily bribed lords. There were wide spread riots across Scotland when the act came into force. The majority of Scots didn't want it at the time, just as the majority of Scots didn't want it now. It was the votes from people from other parts of the UK now living in Scotland who swung the result in favour of the union this time around. If the vote had been limited in the same way that the EU vote was, then Scotland would be in the final planning stages of independence by now.

[McSpreader]

39 minutes ago, Wren Road said:

What a p***k. Keep breathing out your mouth you servile unionist diddy

 

Oh that's it now. I've totally changed my mind on everything under the sun. You have completely persuaded me to abandon every thought and principle I ever had thanks to your wit , intelligence and insight .You are a God.

I worship you x

[McSpreader]

8 minutes ago, Cream Cheese said:

No it wasn't. It was the idea of a few heavily bribed lords. There were wide spread riots across Scotland when the act came into force. The majority of Scots didn't want it at the time, just as the majority of Scots didn't want it now. It was the votes from people from other parts of the UK now living in Scotland who swung the result in favour of the union this time around. If the vote had been limited in the same way that the EU vote was, then Scotland would be in the final planning stages of independence by now.

Like I said, it was Scotland's idea and it brought peace and prosperity and allowed Britain to create the largest empire the world has ever seen. An empire created by the disproportionate number of Scots serving the British Empire and doing very nicely out of it.

Before you get all apopletic. check that last paragraph and you will see it is a statement of fact not of opinion. I'm not saying I agree or support the concept of Empire only that in an age of Empires Britain's was the biggest and, you might argue, the best.Almost Every nation in Europe was empire building but they didn't have the Scottish soldiers, engineers and colonisers  to help them and that's why The British Empire was so amazing. It was all Scotland's fault!

[ayrmad]

14 hours ago, AyrExile said:

Yes I realise you have to interpret these and make your own mind up. Key factor is to disregard the years where the oil price is low as they are fundamentally flawed. Best to concentrate on the ones where it's high as these can be considered authentic and used as reference material. 

No, you can bet your bottom dollar regardless of oil price that Westminster will almost always where possible under-state the GERS figures, after all they've a certain narrative that they spin quite well.

Edited September 4, 2016 by ayrmad

[Loondave1]

Absolutely nothing you claim there has any basis in fact, chump. I'm not attempting nor claiming to be a pro-independence campaigner. I am however pointing out the indisputable fact that you are a gibbering moron, who voted for the status quo twice in a row, because you're an easily fooled shitebag. Your chocolate watch still isn't in the post for voting remain: literally nobody cares.

Gutted for you.

Obviously you care or you would desist with the phlegmy drooling and puzzling obsession with chocolate. I do take your point about not being pro indy so I'll just put you down as a regular retarded halfwit with displaced anger issues from yesterdays Hampden pumping.

[McSpreader]

6 minutes ago, Loondave1 said:

Obviously you care or you would desist with the phlegmy drooling and puzzling obsession with chocolate. I do take your point about not being pro indy so I'll just put you down as a regular retarded halfwit with displaced anger issues from yesterdays Hampden pumping.

Got it in One !

[Loondave1]

Got it in One !

Shooting pish in a barrel it is,pish in a barrel.

[Antlion]

5 hours ago, McSpreader said:

Scotland can be anything it wants to be so long as our elected representatives work with rUK and not against rUK as they are right now. I can't understand why you aren't giving the Holyrood Gov't 10 tons of sh*t for failing in that simple mandate.

Brexit was the decision of the whole UK . Scotland wasn't voting as a separate block . The referendum was conducted on the basis of one person  one vote with no person's vote having any more or less value  than anyone else's and with every eligible voter able to decide for themselves if they wished to exercise that right or not.

As such the UK voted for Brexit and I, for one, am most happy with that decision. 

Democracy is like swings and roundabouts. You might gain on the swing but lose on the roundabout. I was on the swing . You were on the roundabout. Get the f*ck over it!!!

And there we have it - you can pretend Scotland is a valued country all you like, but in reality it can't make its own decisions as a region of a country. You wouldn't accept the situation Scotland is in in the British union for the country that gets your own nationalist blood up - the UK - so don't expect Scottish nationalists to accept political setups for Scotland that you wouldn't tolerate for the UK.

[vikingTON]

Obviously you care or you would desist with the phlegmy drooling and puzzling obsession with chocolate. I do take your point about not being pro indy so I'll just put you down as a regular retarded halfwit with displaced anger issues from yesterdays Hampden pumping.

^^^ word salad

[kevthedee]

And there we have it - you can pretend Scotland is a valued country all you like, but in reality it can't make its own decisions as a region of a country. You wouldn't accept the situation Scotland is in in the British union for the country that gets your own nationalist blood up - the UK - so don't expect Scottish nationalists to accept political setups for Scotland that you wouldn't tolerate for the UK.

Tissues at the the ready sniff sniff

[mjw]

Tissues at the the ready sniff sniff

Kevtheminter.

[John Lambies Doos]

Tissues at the the ready sniff sniff

Thought you are voting yes in next referendum kev?

[Loondave1]

^^^ word salad

Mate the only vegetable here is you I'm afraid.Put some cream on it.

[mjw]

Mate the only vegetable here is you I'm afraid.Put some cream on it.

Classy.

[renton]

16 hours ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

You got evidence to back up that claim?

Acording to the University of Edinburgh polling study, Scots born Scots voted in favour of independence 53/47, other UK born Scots voted 20/80 in favour of the Union and EU born Scots voted 35/65 in favour of the Union. It is to the SNP's everlasting credit that they resist the temptation to trumpet this fact in favour of a more socially inclusive form of nationalism.

That's one break down of it, the other is that predominantly older voters voted to stay in the Union and younger voters opted for independence. Yes had a series of narrow leads up to the 40-49 year old age bracket and then the older age brackets heavily broke for No.

Edited September 5, 2016 by renton

[renton]

21 hours ago, McSpreader said:

It was Scotland's idea to form the Union all those years ago.

Your obsession with race relations is bordering on psychosis. You have never met a Black or Asian person in your life yet you continue to claim to represent them.  This idea that prejudice only goes one way is infantile.

And yes, the election was free therefore I do believe we live in a genuine democracy......which could easily be improved, I will concede that, by getting rid of the H.O.Lords and by introducing a more proportional voting system at Westminster.

The idea to form a Union did not occur in a vacuum. The union of Crowns had become a running sore for Scotland, denying them much room to manouvere in foreign policy by dint of being dragged into their monarch's war on the back of the English parliament's priorities. In the early 1700s the Scots parliament passed several acts designed to re-assert Scottish sovereignty (in one of those excersises in the law of unintended outcomes it ended up destroying said sovereignty). The acts sought to place a constitutional bar on the monarch raising Scots forces for English wars by the combined "British" monarch, more importantly it sought to assert Scottish sovereignty over the succession of the crown. With Wlliam dead and Ann Stuart in ailing health and childless, this was of massive importance to both parliaments. On the English side this was unnaceptable, as the Scots might break the Union of Crowns, and further, install a monarch who might make alliances with England's European adversaries. They beleived they could not risk opening their northern, only land border, to potential incursion by French or Spanish forces and they passed their own acts to bring Scotland to heal.

The Navigations and Aliens acts were nothing short of economic blocade against Scotland. They heavily tarrifed Scottish trade into England, denied Scottish access to trade in the English North American colonies (tobacco and slaves through port Glasgow, being Scotland's major growth industry at the time) and prevented Scottish land owners from securing the inheritance of land they owned in England. This had the effect of bringing the Scots to a negotiating table alright. As much as we talk about lords being 'bribed for English gold' to mangle Burns, the stick was arguable more persuasive than the carrot.  The Scots proposed a federal union, the English demanded an incorporating Union. The Union as we understand it today, was the outcome of sustained English aggression, if not militarily then certainly economic that broke the back of Scotland's will to resist. It was the final act of a long running disaster for Scotland that began with James VI, and who's decendents and successors became increasingly alien and indifferent to the well being of their Scots kingdom.

[Crilly]

55 minutes ago, renton said:

Acording to the University of Edinburgh polling study, Scots born Scots voted in favour of independence 53/47, other UK born Scots voted 20/80 in favour of the Union and EU born Scots voted 35/65 in favour of the Union. It is to the SNP's everlasting credit that they resist the temptation to trumpet this fact in favour of a more socially inclusive form of nationalism.

That's one break down of it, the other is that predominantly older voters voted to stay in the Union and younger voters opted for independence. Yes had a series of narrow leads up to the 40-49 year old age bracket and then the older age brackets heavily broke for No.

Probably pretty much what you'd expect.  There are various breakdowns, not all of which are mutually exclusive. Most of the electorate cast their vote on whats best for them personally, and so those who thought they had most to gain voted yes, and those who thought they had most to lose voted no.  A generalisation I know but its not rocket science. The referendum debate was characterised by a lack of facts and it boiled down to which side you believed most.  

[renton]

22 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

This is not proof of what Cheesy said. Its a classic example of abuse of statistics and why they should always be treated with suspicion.

 

Where's the abuse?

[williemillersmoustache]

It's pretty good evidence tbf.  

[Gordon EF]

oaksoft