When will indyref2 happen?

[Falcor Roar]

In 2014 the YES campaign felt very inclusive for all people living in Scotland. I encountered a number of English YES campaigners in Edinburgh and that didn't seem at all unusual. 

[lichtgilphead]

Flags & kilts & marching?

Reminds me of an avatar that a previous poster used.

I don't think he supported indy.

Edited October 14, 2019 by lichtgilphead

[Dan Steele]

I'm a wee bit concerned about the use of 'ethnonationalism'. Does that not have far right, even fascist, overtones? Also, is it ethnonationalism to wear a glengarry and carry a saltire at a rugby match or is it only that on indy marches?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Kincardine is just another Malky, repeating the same tired old tropes post after post. We're talking about someone who reported the use of "***" 9 times in half an hour to a mod here [emoji23]

[The_Kincardine]

4 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Kincardine is just another Malky

I know you make a lot of silly posts but this is the silliest.

[Gaz FFC]

Sincerely don't want to spend my evening arguing with haudit and daudit but in 2014 I barley knew any yes voters and it seriously affected my confidence in a yes win.

In 2019 I barely know any no voters and watching them switch 1 by 1 after telling them this would happen has been extremely satisfying.

If no voters want to convince themselves nothing has changed I hope many stay away from the polls on referendum day assuming it's pointless voting and not needed

[DA Baracus]

I've reported the old drunk for his racism.*

As we know people on football forums saying bad things is what decides votes so I think it's safe to declare Scotland independent as of now.

 

 

 

 

*Not really

[Malky3]

7 hours ago, pandarilla said:

That's not a desperate strategy, it's a fact. Older people are (understandably in many cases) more likely to vote against independence.

Wishing death on your fellow human beings so you can win a vote isn't desperate? 

Bloody hell. I can only imagine the depths the Nationalist movement will sink to when they get really desperate. 

[Malky3]

4 hours ago, Falcor Roar said:

In 2014 the YES campaign felt very inclusive for all people living in Scotland. I encountered a number of English YES campaigners in Edinburgh and that didn't seem at all unusual. 

Eh? Inclusive, unless you were one of the 55% majority of Scots who voted no. The same campaigners screamed "traitor", "quisling" and all manner of other abuse telling fellow Scots to "f**k off to England" 

 

[Malky3]

3 hours ago, Gaz FFC said:

Sincerely don't want to spend my evening arguing with haudit and daudit but in 2014 I barley knew any yes voters and it seriously affected my confidence in a yes win.

In 2019 I barely know any no voters and watching them switch 1 by 1 after telling them this would happen has been extremely satisfying.

If no voters want to convince themselves nothing has changed I hope many stay away from the polls on referendum day assuming it's pointless voting and not needed

Aw look at Gaz kidding on he has friends these days.....

In 2014 the majority of people I worked with who stated a preference voted Yes, the rest of us didn't disclose how we were voting to avoid the boring diatribe on the office Nationalist. 

That's still the case. Most of us who will vote No to Scottish Independence over and over and over again - unless the nationalists can prove beyond all doubt that Scottish independence would make us better off - will simply keep how we vote to ourselves as is our right! 

[pandarilla]

Wishing death on your fellow human beings so you can win a vote isn't desperate? 
Bloody hell. I can only imagine the depths the Nationalist movement will sink to when they get really desperate. 

No-one is wishing death on any individual.

This might come as a shock to you but old people die, and younger people grow older. It's the circle of life.

Data suggests that this will help the independence cause.

It's just maths.

[Malky3]

8 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

No-one is wishing death on any individual.

This might come as a shock to you but old people die, and younger people grow older. It's the circle of life.

Data suggests that this will help the independence cause.

It's just maths.

Nope - it's an interpretation of polling. It's certainly not Maths. 

Polling suggested that if you were a pensioner in Scotland in 2014 you were more likely to vote No than you were to vote Yes. The Nationalist movement, in their straw clutching desperation after defeat, decided that this meant that Scottish Independence was inevitable. All they had to do was wait till enough No voters had died off and it was a shoe in. 

What they patently ignored was the fact that when many youths get by the firebrand rebellious and immature stage in their lives - starting work, paying a mortgage, and raising a family - often they start to look more closely at what they are being asked to vote for and the reality of a Scottish Independence tax bill of £2,300 per annum per person living in their household will put most of them off pretty quickly. 

 

[pandarilla]

Nope - it's an interpretation of polling. It's certainly not Maths. 
Polling suggested that if you were a pensioner in Scotland in 2014 you were more likely to vote No than you were to vote Yes. The Nationalist movement, in their straw clutching desperation after defeat, decided that this meant that Scottish Independence was inevitable. All they had to do was wait till enough No voters had died off and it was a shoe in. 
What they patently ignored was the fact that when many youths get by the firebrand rebellious and immature stage in their lives - starting work, paying a mortgage, and raising a family - often they start to look more closely at what they are being asked to vote for and the reality of a Scottish Independence tax bill of £2,300 per annum per person living in their household will put most of them off pretty quickly. 
 

I thought independence support was at its strongest amongst folk in their 30s-50s, which would suggest you're wrong about mortgage concerns and youthful exuberance.

And it wasn't just pensioners. The older you were the more likely you were to vote no. That's not about wisdom as you suggest but rather having a stronger and much more positive connection with Britain (imo). That's completely natural.

The further we get from wwII and the postwar welfare state reforms the weaker the ties become. Those were big positives for the union. Since the 70s? Not so many positives.

You're right about the difference between maths and polling stats though. My bad.

[Malky3]

1 hour ago, pandarilla said:

I thought independence support was at its strongest amongst folk in their 30s-50s, which would suggest you're wrong about mortgage concerns and youthful exuberance.

And it wasn't just pensioners. The older you were the more likely you were to vote no. That's not about wisdom as you suggest but rather having a stronger and much more positive connection with Britain (imo). That's completely natural.

The further we get from wwII and the postwar welfare state reforms the weaker the ties become. Those were big positives for the union. Since the 70s? Not so many positives.

You're right about the difference between maths and polling stats though. My bad.

Demographics Survey

Have a read at the linked report. 

I doubt it's got anything to do with the War or post war welfare reforms given that there were only around 40,000 Scots alive in 2014 that would have even had the faintest infant memory of the Second World War. And the extent of the nationalist straw clutching becomes clear when you consider that the No majority in 2014 was just over 380,000. You're going to have to wish a hell of a lot of "No" voters dead before you are ever likely to see independence through that route. 

The fact is the more you have to lose the less likely you are to vote for Scottish Independence. if Nationalists want to enhance their chances of achieving Scottish Independence they are going to have to convince No voters that they will be financially better off - and the SNP have already damaged their credibility massively on that score with the White Paper promises of massive oil tax revenues when reality has proved almost exactly the opposite. 

[Suspect Device]

5 hours ago, Malky3 said:

Nope - it's an interpretation of polling. It's certainly not Maths. 

Polling suggested that if you were a pensioner in Scotland in 2014 you were more likely to vote No than you were to vote Yes. The Nationalist movement, in their straw clutching desperation after defeat, decided that this meant that Scottish Independence was inevitable. All they had to do was wait till enough No voters had died off and it was a shoe in. 

What they patently ignored was the fact that when many youths get by the firebrand rebellious and immature stage in their lives - starting work, paying a mortgage, and raising a family - often they start to look more closely at what they are being asked to vote for and the reality of a Scottish Independence tax bill of £2,300 per annum per person living in their household will put most of them off pretty quickly. 

 

I was reading yesterday that Brexit will cost £2,000 per annum so in reality* it will only cost £300.

A price worth paying imo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* when I say reality, it's more virtual reality because it depends on which prediction becomes reality. No-one knows what will happen in the future. Que sera sera as the philosopher Doris Day would say. 

[dirty dingus]

7 hours ago, Malky3 said:

Eh? Inclusive, unless you were one of the 55% majority of Scots who voted no. The same campaigners screamed "traitor", "quisling" and all manner of other abuse telling fellow Scots to "f**k off to England" 

 

The majority of Scots voted Yes.

Scare tacitics and lies against non Scots living here helped push the yoons to their hollow victory.

 

[git-intae-thum]

28 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

The majority of Scots voted Yes.

Scare tacitics and lies against non Scots living here helped push the yoons to their hollow victory.

 

 and a fantastic world record postal vote. They even managed to get dead punters to mark their ballots.....impressive

[dirty dingus]

3 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

 and a fantastic world record postal vote. They even managed to get dead punters to mark their ballots.....impressive

 

Wonder what shenanigans they'll come up with next time?

I see Gove pushing for a  sectarian angle and now they are going for passport and driving license proof of ID to vote. Those Tory Yoons, what they like.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by dirty dingus

[git-intae-thum]

12 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

 

Wonder what shenanigans they'll come up with next time?

I see Gove pushing for a  sectarian angle and now they are going for passport and driving license proof of ID to vote. Those Tory Yoons, what they like.

 

 

Not just Gove. Paul Sweeney, the hopefully soon to be ousted labour mp was on TV last week calling the independence movement sectarian. His Conservative pal sitting opposite in the studio nodding in agreement. It's obviously a new strategic angle worked out by red and blue tories.

Despicable.

[Stellaboz]

How much more shit do some people have to see for them to even consider that Indy might just be a viable option?

I feel that Boris could one day machine gun down everyone in Parliament, declare himself General Bojo and still some would be like "yeah that's a fine idea".