Scotlands last genuine world class player?

[John Lambies Doos]

I think the assertion that a WC player would be nailed on a world 11 is too narrow. I think we have to be looking at at least best 3 players in each position. With that in mind Dalgish is a shoe in, as is Law and potentially Souness. The other variable is consistency, it's possible to argue that Robertson is currently in the top three left backs in world but he needs to back this up for a few seasons to be considered world class

 

 

 

 

[ONeils40yarder]

On 5/6/2018 at 16:42, Ya Bezzer! said:

Now don't get me wrong they were all great players but....

Was Kenny Dalglish better than Safet Susic, Jan Ceulemans or Karl Heinz Rummenigge?

Was Graeme Souness better than Falcao or Jean Tigana or Lothar Matthaus?

Was Alan Hansen better than...well McLeish, Narey or Miller?

To me a world class player is one that goes straight into a world XI.  It's a Messi or Ronaldo or in previous years a Zindane or Platini or Gerd Muller or Di Stefano or a Schmeichel or even a Thuram.

The truth is I don't think Scotland have ever had genuinely world class players, at least in the post war era.  Even in the 50's and 60's knowledge of the world game was massively ignorant in Britain.....even when teams like Uruguay and Hungary turned top British international teams over there was still a sense of misguided superiority.

Scotland produced a lot of very good players in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's but so did other nations some of whom have almost been forgotten.  Think of the great Denmark team of the 80's  for instance, the Belgians of the same period, or the Austrians and Russians in the 50's and 60's.  Poland and Czechoslavakia in the 70's etc, etc. the list could go on and on and that's ignoring the major nations.

When we think of the football of the past we tend to be a little Britain-centric and it's also a sort of balm to our current woes to hold the belief "once we were great". 

What a lot of guff man...the definition of world class isn't 'who would make it into a world XI' for a start

[Gordopolis]

55 minutes ago, ONeils40yarder said:

What a lot of guff man...the definition of world class isn't 'who would make it into a world XI' for a start

TBF the problem is that there is no agreed definition of 'World Class', just lots of subjective opinions.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Gordopolis

[ONeils40yarder]

There is an agreed definition...

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/world-class

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/world-class

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/world-class

 

...its basically, 'one of the best in the World'.

 

[forameus]

Which is vague, not to mention clearly subjective, in itself.

Do we really need to argue the semantics over this?  It's utterly pointless.  Does any of it even matter?  Robertson is a wonderful player, easily the best we have.  Nothing changes if we label him World Class, other than him getting unnecessary pressure heaped on him by the mouth-breathers that think he can change a game on his own.  

Edited May 11, 2018 by forameus

[Scary Bear]

Which is vague, not to mention clearly subjective, in itself.
Do we really need to argue the semantics over this?  It's utterly pointless.  Does any of it even matter?  Robertson is a wonderful player, easily the best we have.  Nothing changes if we label him World Class, other than him getting unnecessary pressure heaped on him by the mouth-breathers that think he can change a game on his own.  

It’s only vague in that some people see World Class as players being able to get into some mythical World XI and others see it as playing well for one of the best teams in one of the best leagues (Spain, Italy, England, Germany).

Going on the latter and the definition above then playing for Liverpool must be up there.

[ONeils40yarder]

1 hour ago, forameus said:

Which is vague, not to mention clearly subjective, in itself.

  

Vague? I think its pretty clear to be honest

[forameus]

26 minutes ago, ONeils40yarder said:

Vague? I think its pretty clear to be honest

And completely subjective.  The main point still stands.  Whatever the definition, does any of it really matter whether one person thinks he is and one doesn't?

[King Kebab]

So are we talking about Robertson making the starting 11 for the Playoff Final against Mars or just being selected for the squad going to the Intergalactic Trans-World Cup, which is it???

[ONeils40yarder]

23 minutes ago, forameus said:

And completely subjective.  The main point still stands.  Whatever the definition, does any of it really matter whether one person thinks he is and one doesn't?

Whats subjective about the leading English dictionaries, almost to a word, agreeing on the definition of something?

 

World Class is clearly 'to be amongst the best in the World in that given field'....

...a world-class restaurant, doesnt need to be the best in the World, but it needs to be amongst the best

...a world-class opera singer, doesnt need to be the best in the World, but he/she needs to be amongst the best

...the same goes for footballing left-backs. 

For what its worth, it looks to me like Marcelo is the best left-back in the World, and would be my pick for my 'World XI'...however, Robertson on current form and the current level he is performing at, should be considered as World Class...because there aren't many around that are better than him.

[forameus]

37 minutes ago, ONeils40yarder said:

Whats subjective about the leading English dictionaries, almost to a word, agreeing on the definition of something?

 

World Class is clearly 'to be amongst the best in the World in that given field'....

...a world-class restaurant, doesnt need to be the best in the World, but it needs to be amongst the best

...a world-class opera singer, doesnt need to be the best in the World, but he/she needs to be amongst the best

...the same goes for footballing left-backs. 

For what its worth, it looks to me like Marcelo is the best left-back in the World, and would be my pick for my 'World XI'...however, Robertson on current form and the current level he is performing at, should be considered as World Class...because there aren't many around that are better than him.

"One of the best".  How do you define that?  What metrics?  That's what's subjective.  

[ONeils40yarder]

Yes of course that is subjective...I take it you agree on the definition though?

[Peppino Impastato]

2 hours ago, ONeils40yarder said:

Whats subjective about the leading English dictionaries, almost to a word, agreeing on the definition of something?

 

World Class is clearly 'to be amongst the best in the World in that given field'....

...a world-class restaurant, doesnt need to be the best in the World, but it needs to be amongst the best

...a world-class opera singer, doesnt need to be the best in the World, but he/she needs to be amongst the best

...the same goes for footballing left-backs. 

For what its worth, it looks to me like Marcelo is the best left-back in the World, and would be my pick for my 'World XI'...however, Robertson on current form and the current level he is performing at, should be considered as World Class...because there aren't many around that are better than him.

Yeah but what is amongst the best?  The best two or three or the best 50?  By it's nature it's completely subjective and vague.  Robertson is world class, so is Tierney.  Fletcher and briefly Gordon were too.

[ONeils40yarder]

Just now, Peppino Impastato said:

Yeah but what is amongst the best?  The best two or three or the best 50?  By it's nature it's completely subjective and vague.  Robertson is world class, so is Tierney.  Fletcher and briefly Gordon were too.

I dunno...what it definitely proves though, is that 'would he get into a World XI?', is complete, total and utter bollocks as a definition of 'World Class'.

 

I agree on Robertson, Gordon (he was certainly amongst the best goalkeepers in Europe for a spell) and Fletcher (who was a mainstay in an all conquering Man Utd team). Tierney, I feel has the potential, but he needs to go elsewhere to prove it I'm afraid.

[Bing.McCrosby]

3 hours ago, King Kebab said:

So are we talking about Robertson making the starting 11 for the Playoff Final against Mars or just being selected for the squad going to the Intergalactic Trans-World Cup, which is it???

It's more difficult than that tho, you can't just select the best 11 players for those positions. We need the team to gel and to compliment each other. So say having a few players from some clubs would help. As they would be familiar and comfortable playing together.

So some of the actual best 11 may miss out. If we're going to beats Mars we have to take this seriously.

Also which players could actually stand up to the heat and take the game to the Martians?

There's alot to consider

[King Kebab]

It's more difficult than that tho, you can't just select the best 11 players for those positions. We need the team to gel and to compliment each other. So say having a few players from some clubs would help. As they would be familiar and comfortable playing together.
So some of the actual best 11 may miss out. If we're going to beats Mars we have to take this seriously.
Also which players could actually stand up to the heat and take the game to the Martians?
There's alot to consider

There might then be case for Ribéry to start at Left-Back then if only because he looks like Martian!!!

[Gordopolis]

We need the team to gel and to compliment each other.

"I say Robbo, you look rather fetching in those shorts..."
"Why thank you, Lionel. And may I compliment you in return on your orange beard?"

[topcat(The most tip top)]

2 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

It's more difficult than that tho, you can't just select the best 11 players for those positions. We need the team to gel and to compliment each other. So say having a few players from some clubs would help. As they would be familiar and comfortable playing together.
So some of the actual best 11 may miss out. If we're going to beats Mars we have to take this seriously.
Also which players could actually stand up to the heat and take the game to the Martians?
There's alot to consider

Even if we're playing at noon on the equator of mars the temperature isn't going to be more than 20 celcius so there won't be much heat to stand up to

One definition of world class I like is either the player that would start against Mars or any player good enough to step in if the first choice goes off injured without the earthlings in the crowd all going “Oh f**k not him” in a thousand different languages while the Martian fans gleefully wave their pseudopods in an ironic manner.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by topcat(The most tip top)

[topcat(The most tip top)]

There might then be case for Ribéry to start at Left-Back then if only because he looks like Martian!!!

I think he’s born on Earth but we should probably give him a game for Earth soon just in case we end up with an Aiden McGeady scenario

[King Kebab]

Has any decision been made on the strips???