Billy Jean King Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I think the point being made is that the UK governments investment in Software and IT in general has not historically resulted in a positive financial contributions. This says more about the IT services industry than it does about the UK population. Again I wouldn't disagree although I haven't personally been involved with the large national DWP systems. Software though isn't the best tool to fight fraud with. It's a mindset, a cultural thing, a cycle if you like that's very difficult to break. It's a hugely difficult and expensive crime to prove and in many cases simply stopping the payment of a fraudulently obtained benefit is seen as a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Again I wouldn't disagree although I haven't personally been involved with the large national DWP systems. Software though isn't the best tool to fight fraud with. It's a mindset, a cultural thing, a cycle if you like that's very difficult to break. It's a hugely difficult and expensive crime to prove and in many cases simply stopping the payment of a fraudulently obtained benefit is seen as a success. When the computers says so. The issue being raised here is not that fraudulent benefits are being paid but that people are being denied benefits that they are entitled to for events outside their control. Now perhaps if the DWP would design a system that would pro-actively notify people that are entitled to un-claimed benefits that I would be a little less dismissive of their IT systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 When the computers says so. The issue being raised here is not that fraudulent benefits are being paid but that people are being denied benefits that they are entitled to for events outside their control. Now perhaps if the DWP would design a system that would pro-actively notify people that are entitled to un-claimed benefits that I would be a little less dismissive of their IT systems. That's quite hard to do really. The vast majority of unclaimed benefit is Attendance Allowance which is non means tested. You're relying on Social Care services, medical professionals and their families to raise the question of entitlement and look for assistance. The only means tested benefits that are frequently left unclaimed due not non-awareness are probably Severe Disability Premium. Even then you'd need a system which linked to the relevant Council's electoral roll etc to confirm that the claimant lives alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 That's quite hard to do really. The vast majority of unclaimed benefit is Attendance Allowance which is non means tested. You're relying on Social Care services, medical professionals and their families to raise the question of entitlement and look for assistance. The only means tested benefits that are frequently left unclaimed due not non-awareness are probably Severe Disability Premium. Even then you'd need a system which linked to the relevant Council's electoral roll etc to confirm that the claimant lives alone. I know lots of people who would be entitled to Working Tax Credit but haven't heard about it. If the government haven't already abolished it it would be simple to make the automatic adjustment on PAYE. They don't because it would cost too much if everyone who was entitled was paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I know lots of people who would be entitled to Working Tax Credit but haven't heard about it. If the government haven't already abolished it it would be simple to make the automatic adjustment on PAYE. They don't because it would cost too much if everyone who was entitled was paid. Sorry i was thinking along DWP lines I tend to find a lot of people don't claim WTC because they don't trust HMRC not to f**k it up and hit them with an overpayment. Even when they do f**k it up, getting them to admit it is the Devil's own work. They will take every appeal they can as far as possible no matter how glaring the error they've made because they know a large number of people will chuck it out of frustration. They are utter c***s to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Sorry i was thinking along DWP lines I tend to find a lot of people don't claim WTC because they don't trust HMRC not to f**k it up and hit them with an overpayment. Even when they do f**k it up, getting them to admit it is the Devil's own work. They will take every appeal they can as far as possible no matter how glaring the error they've made because they know a large number of people will chuck it out of frustration. They are utter c***s to deal with. According to the DWP's own figures there was the following unclaimed in 2013/14 Housing benefit - £3.62bln Jobseekers - £2.3bln Income Support and ESA - £2.83bln Savings Credits - £270mln Guarantee Credit - £2.59bln This equates to a significant sum of money over £11bln per annum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortar Bored Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Reading this thread is really quite sorrowful. We have people like WB, devoting their life to enrich someone else's ( in this case, his parents), willing to tell a bunch of strangers about his particular struggles and hardships- not in a sensationalist way, but trying to defend and justify his benefits to a moronic amoeba like OS. It really sums up our society that someone as gracious and noble as Welshbairn even feels the need to respond to our resident troll. Hat is doffed to Welshbairn, along with all the other carers / less fortunate. It's my dream that one day, we can all look after those in need of help, whether it's financially good for an individual or not- won't happen tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 How come cnuts like Henry Kissinger get the Nobel Peace Prize and I don't, that's what I want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortar Bored Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Cos Henry never went solo-clubbing? ;-). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Cos Henry never went solo-clubbing? ;-). I read that as "seal-clubbing". I was a tad shocked . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 According to the DWP's own figures there was the following unclaimed in 2013/14 Housing benefit - £3.62bln Jobseekers - £2.3bln Income Support and ESA - £2.83bln Savings Credits - £270mln Guarantee Credit - £2.59bln This equates to a significant sum of money over £11bln per annum. I'm quite surprised the last figure isn't higher. Interesting to note that the Unclaimed Benefits figures is approximately ten times that of the figure for Benefit fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 According to the DWP's own figures there was the following unclaimed in 2013/14 Housing benefit - £3.62bln Jobseekers - £2.3bln Income Support and ESA - £2.83bln Savings Credits - £270mln Guarantee Credit - £2.59bln This equates to a significant sum of money over £11bln per annum. Interesting also to note that the final figure is approximately the savings that Gideon says we need to make. Job done then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 I'm quite surprised the last figure isn't higher. Interesting to note that the Unclaimed Benefits figures is approximately ten times that of the figure for Benefit fraud. This is the type of thing that has to be shared widely. I'd want to see the Labour Party and the SNP get this mentioned at every opportunity. A few years back one of the most telling stats that came out was the figure that folk picked when asked the percentage of benefits that were fraudulently claimed. The public's average guess was something ridiculous like 20 odd percent when the real figure was less than 1%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 How come cnuts like Henry Kissinger get the Nobel Peace Prize and I don't, that's what I want to know. Kissinger was more of a lefty than you, that's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 How come cnuts like Henry Kissinger get the Nobel Peace Prize and I don't, that's what I want to know. Kissinger was knee-deep in bitches and chronic. You need to up your game, WB. This is the type of thing that has to be shared widely. I'd want to see the Labour Party and the SNP get this mentioned at every opportunity. A few years back one of the most telling stats was the average figure that folk picked when asked how much fraud there was relating to benefits. It was something ridiculous 20 odd percent of benefits was fraudulently claimed when the real figure is less than 1%. They'd need to have no expectation of being in government for that to happen; they all rely on people not being aware of what they're entitled to. Apologies for raising Oaksoft's blood pressure by mentioning the 'E' word. According to the Royal Statistical Society, the public's view of benefit fraud was off by a factor of 34 in 2013. Only a small group surveyed, but there's no doubt people think it's a far bigger problem than it is. I'm sure some people would take it on board that they're mistaken, but there are still plenty who just want an excuse to be furious about spongers and skivers, and won't let facts and figures get in the way of that. Edit: just occurred to me that, if the average was that £24 out of every £100 is claimed fraudulently, there were almost certainly a few roasters among that sample who thought the figure was far higher Some folk really must want to think that you just rock up to the DWP and they shower you with notes on command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 I'm pretty sure I made no comment whatsoever about Carers allowances. Yet another person who can't debate properly woithout putting words in the mouth of another poster. Wire in. I genuinely couldn't care less. I don't know what you think you are gaining by this. What he is gaining by this is reinforcing the forum's opinion of you as a bitter, deranged, amoral w****r. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Wire in. I genuinely couldn't care less. Suuuuuuuuuure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Oaksoft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Oakstoft... touched me. Whom do i report this to? Your mummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Ho Ho Ho and a Merry Christmas from the DWP! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jobless-and-disabled-people-could-have-benefits-stopped-on-christmas-eve-under-tough-new-sanctions-a6781706.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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