BFTD Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 the atos system is absolutely disgusting and you are correct i dont support it. we do however have a moral duty to help any disabled person find fulfilling work because the benefits of working and earning are so obvious both financially and socially. the problem woth the tories is more to do with the way they are going about thimgs rather than the overarching aim of getting as many people off welfare as possible. it is simply indefensible to do anything else. a lot of the outrage and anger on this thread is undoubtedly because some of this is hitting quite close to home for some posters. a kernel of truth can certainly provoke a overcompensating response and that is what we are seeing here, i am convinced of it. you are already seeing a couple of people finally start talking about how they are personally on benefits. the outrage has nothing to do with concern for the poor. it is more likely to be concern for themselves. overly defensive responses are always a red flag. We're probably all secretly Rangers/Celtic* fans too, to be fair. *delete as befits your prejudice. Fide your debating style is absolutely dreadful sometimes. You regularly resort to extreme personal insults and that only ever makes you look bad. There's a whole load of group think going on in this thread as numerous posters pat each other on the back and declare oaksoft a 'lunatic' but not much winning of arguments. Not every argument is worth engaging in, Pandy, especially when the agitator's primary motivation is clearly to make himself feel better about his status in society. When was the last time you saw someone 'win' an argument on the internet anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Would you say you and your colleagues made the nation a profit after deducting your wages and expenses? Eh ? I implement software. I suspect anti fraud software does indeed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Eh ? I implement software. I suspect anti fraud software does indeed though. I would "suspect" that any plan/ software/ scheme/ the Government has devised to "crack down" on benefit claimants has profited them the square root of "f**k all". #ideological Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 So only someone who is poor can show concern for other poor people? The people who have posted about being on benefits have probably given more information than anyone would want to on a football site. Instead of having any compassion, you see it as proving your point. What is it that is so bad in your life you want to be the cleverest, hardest working and most mature debater on a football forum? In my experience, the people most down on those on benefits are those just one rung above that on the ladder. Those with fairly menial and low-paid employment and no real career prospects. This is I think what we'd find in oaksoft's case. The anger and envy towards people scraping a subsistence living is most likely coming from someone also doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 When was the last time you saw someone 'win' an argument on the internet anyway? I win every argument I have on the internet...well I do in my own head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I would "suspect" that any plan/ software/ scheme/ the Government has devised to "crack down" on benefit claimants has profited them the square root of "f**k all". #ideological Meanwhile we lose £16 billion a year to tax fraud: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/17/uk-tax-costs-government-16bn-each-year-audit-report-says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 you are already seeing a couple of people finally start talking about how they are personally on benefits. the outrage has nothing to do with concern for the poor. it is more likely to be concern for themselves. overly defensive responses are always a red flag. Maybe the voices of people who have actually experienced the system are worth listening to, especially to counteract the nonsense you come out with like "70 quid a week, no questions asked". I get £65 a week carers allowance for looking after my parents, one with severe alzheimers, the other wheelchair bound. I can't leave the house unless a private carer comes in, paid for by the attendance allowance my parents receive. I have to get up 6 or 7 times a night to help my Dad go to the toilet or stop him falling down the stairs, we've got alarms all over the place, so just have to catch an hour or so's sleep when I can. If I left it to the state to look after them it would cost the tax payer a minimum of £1500 a week. Sponger indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilScotsman Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Meanwhile we lose £16 billion a year to tax fraud: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/17/uk-tax-costs-government-16bn-each-year-audit-report-says £122 billion. www.taxresearch.org.uk/Documents/PCSTaxGap2014Full.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Maybe the voices of people who have actually experienced the system are worth listening to, especially to counteract the nonsense you come out with like "70 quid a week, no questions asked". I get £65 a week carers allowance for looking after my parents, one with severe alzheimers, the other wheelchair bound. I can't leave the house unless a private carer comes in, paid for by the attendance allowance my parents receive. I have to get up 6 or 7 times a night to help my Dad go to the toilet or stop him falling down the stairs, we've got alarms all over the place, so just have to catch an hour or so's sleep when I can. If I left it to the state to look after them it would cost the tax payer a minimum of £1500 a week. Sponger indeed. Sorry to read about your parents, WB; I'd no idea. I win every argument I have on the internet...well I do in my own head. Telt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Maybe the voices of people who have actually experienced the system are worth listening to, especially to counteract the nonsense you come out with like "70 quid a week, no questions asked". I get £65 a week carers allowance for looking after my parents, one with severe alzheimers, the other wheelchair bound. I can't leave the house unless a private carer comes in, paid for by the attendance allowance my parents receive. I have to get up 6 or 7 times a night to help my Dad go to the toilet or stop him falling down the stairs, we've got alarms all over the place, so just have to catch an hour or so's sleep when I can. If I left it to the state to look after them it would cost the tax payer a minimum of £1500 a week. Sponger indeed. Aye, and if you were looking after 3, 4 or 5 you would still get only £65.00 a week. You're getting 36 pence an hour to provide 24 hour care for 2 people - 18 pence an hour each! I claim Carers Allowance when I'm not working. There are 4 people in our house, and I could claim Carers Allowance for all of them,* but you only get paid for 1. * Apart from myself, obviously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Maybe the voices of people who have actually experienced the system are worth listening to, especially to counteract the nonsense you come out with like "70 quid a week, no questions asked". I get £65 a week carers allowance for looking after my parents, one with severe alzheimers, the other wheelchair bound. I can't leave the house unless a private carer comes in, paid for by the attendance allowance my parents receive. I have to get up 6 or 7 times a night to help my Dad go to the toilet or stop him falling down the stairs, we've got alarms all over the place, so just have to catch an hour or so's sleep when I can. If I left it to the state to look after them it would cost the tax payer a minimum of £1500 a week. Sponger indeed. Far too heavy a scene for one person. Been there done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Far too heavy a scene for one person. Been there done it. It's not quite as bad as it sounds. My sister comes up from Glasgow to cover regularly so I go to most of Clach away games stopping the night, and go on holiday every couple of months if the bookies have been unlucky. And I don't pay rent or any household expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 It's not quite as bad as it sounds. My sister comes up from Glasgow to cover regularly so I go to most of Clach away games stopping the night, and go on holiday every couple of months if the bookies have been unlucky. And I don't pay rent or any household expenses. * It's still a big commitment and a lot of stress. * I think that's the least you're entitled to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 It's not quite as bad as it sounds. My sister comes up from Glasgow to cover regularly so I go to most of Clach away games stopping the night, and go on holiday every couple of months if the bookies have been unlucky. And I don't pay rent or any household expenses. I can hear Oaksoft's veins popping from here Carers Allowance is shite for the work being put in. Its £62.30 a week for providing full time care ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 It's not quite as bad as it sounds. My sister comes up from Glasgow to cover regularly so I go to most of Clach away games stopping the night, and go on holiday every couple of months if the bookies have been unlucky. And I don't pay rent or any household expenses. Leave the dosh aside a moment. Carers have a hellava habit of falling foul of illness. Saw plenty of carers dying and the primary client ending up in a care home. The carer in most cases was worked to death. For 18p an hour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 It's fucking disgusting that people like Welshbairn do what they do and the Government and MSM encourage the thinking that those on benefits are scroungers. I'd like to see IDS spend one day in Welshbairn's shoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Especially hitting a nightclub on his own. It's not like any fucker would go with him. (IDS, obvs.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 It's absolutely shite to be disabled or looking after the disabled in this country and that's partially the fault of people who actively cheer the rolling back of the welfare state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I would "suspect" that any plan/ software/ scheme/ the Government has devised to "crack down" on benefit claimants has profited them the square root of "f**k all". #ideological Thousands do get caught but your right it's the tip of the iceberg and it's unmeasurable by it's very nature. This says more about the population of the uk than it does about anti fraud software though. Committing fraud is seem as a victimless crime and penalties are paltry. Again though we need to be clear it's a tiny proportion of those entitled who commit fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Thousands do get caught but your right it's the tip of the iceberg and it's unmeasurable by it's very nature. This says more about the population of the uk than it does about anti fraud software though. Committing fraud is seem as a victimless crime and penalties are paltry. Again though we need to be clear it's a tiny proportion of those entitled who commit fraud. I think the point being made is that the UK governments investment in Software and IT in general has not historically resulted in a positive financial contributions. This says more about the IT services industry than it does about the UK population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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