St Mirren Relegation Express. Championship Edition.

[sergie's no1 fan]

6 minutes ago, Insaintee said:

It is worth asking which of the these might have stopped the downwards spiral if kept. It is of course all guess work but:-

Ian Murray  No 

Alex Rae No 

Garry Teale Possibly 

Tommy Craig No.

For me if Ross can get is to 36 points then he should stay regardless of the outcome

 

Yeah it was a lost cause for all of them pretty much, Teale and originally TC should never have been giving the gig in the first place. By the time Teale got the job the damage was already done, TC signed some amount of shite and we lost our best player near the end of the transfer window.

Murray and Rae came in with difficult circumstances surrounding the club, felt more sorry for Ian Murray, had such high hopes for him which is why I didn't fancy Jack Ross for the job in October. Thought we needed someone with experience, proper experience like 10 years worth of management, not 20 games like Tommy Craig had.

[gc_smfc]

6 hours ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

Were Ian Murray and Alex Rae rewarded with failure? Gary Teale? Tommy Craig?

We need to stop going through managers like a hot knife through butter for a start. If we get relegated I don't see the point in sacking him and bringing someone else in and we know to go through all the nonsense that comes with it. 

If we are in League one next season sitting 8 points behind the league leaders in November then yes by all means sack him but its all hypothetical just now anyway.

 

 

5 hours ago, flyingscot said:

 

I find this amazing. If we go down sacking Ross would be a woeful mistake. I can't believe there are fans even considering it!

 He's here unless we are struggling in L1. 

 

We have a problem finding the right man, although Ross may yet turn out to be him, rather than sacking managers. None of them have done anything to suggest we should keep them, even if Rae kept us up. 

Ross should be from bullet-proof, he's been praised as doing a brilliant job, the league table suggests otherwise. I'm  extremely wary but do understand why people may want to grant him the start of next season, if we do end up relegated, he appears to have given us a fighting chance, has improved the quality of watched football, and may yet guide us to safety;the very thing he was brought into do.

On the flip side, he's failed miserably against the 'lesser' teams in the league. The amount of points and non-performances against the teams at the foot of the table is worrying. The reliance on the January window to actually get us competitive for a few games is a massive worry, if we are relegated I'm reluctant to put faith in him getting the most out of limited players based on what he failed to do with the squad from his appointment onwards. The wage budget will be slashed, and everything points to some money being freed up to help bring in the calibre of player that he has, credit to him for getting McGinn back, but are we likely to see such a move if we are a League One side? 

I know fine well, a lot of St.Mirren fans will say I'm being harsh, but so far Ross hasn't put us in a position to keep us up, I really hope our change of form against the top two teams transfers into the rest of the season, but his only remit for when appointed was just that, and defeats to Dumbarton and Raith don't cut the mustard. If he fails, I can't see much to say that he can take us back up.

Hopefully he is here next season, purely because he's kept us up.

 

[LeodhasXD]

11 hours ago, gc_smfc said:

 

We have a problem finding the right man, although Ross may yet turn out to be him, rather than sacking managers. None of them have done anything to suggest we should keep them, even if Rae kept us up. 

Ross should be from bullet-proof, he's been praised as doing a brilliant job, the league table suggests otherwise. I'm  extremely wary but do understand why people may want to grant him the start of next season, if we do end up relegated, he appears to have given us a fighting chance, has improved the quality of watched football, and may yet guide us to safety;the very thing he was brought into do.

On the flip side, he's failed miserably against the 'lesser' teams in the league. The amount of points and non-performances against the teams at the foot of the table is worrying. The reliance on the January window to actually get us competitive for a few games is a massive worry, if we are relegated I'm reluctant to put faith in him getting the most out of limited players based on what he failed to do with the squad from his appointment onwards. The wage budget will be slashed, and everything points to some money being freed up to help bring in the calibre of player that he has, credit to him for getting McGinn back, but are we likely to see such a move if we are a League One side? 

I know fine well, a lot of St.Mirren fans will say I'm being harsh, but so far Ross hasn't put us in a position to keep us up, I really hope our change of form against the top two teams transfers into the rest of the season, but his only remit for when appointed was just that, and defeats to Dumbarton and Raith don't cut the mustard. If he fails, I can't see much to say that he can take us back up.

Hopefully he is here next season, purely because he's kept us up.

 

1/4 of the season 4 points. 2 wins against lower league opposition in the cup. Manager sacked.

(Ross at Alloa managed 18 points and a quarter final. The team was improved  from the season before. despite dropping a division.)

2/4 of the season 7 points.

3/4 of the season 10 points. A cup quarter-final. 

4/4 of the season 3 points after 1 game. A cup final.

What you see is an improvement in each quarter of the season. Correct me if I'm wrong but would you rather positive growth even if it means relegation or constant chopping and changing and unpredictable instability?

 

[BendtnerBairn]

52 minutes ago, LeodhasXD said:

1/4 of the season 4 points. 2 wins against lower league opposition in the cup. Manager sacked.

(Ross at Alloa managed 18 points and a quarter final. The team was improved  from the season before. despite dropping a division.)

2/4 of the season 7 points.

3/4 of the season 10 points. A cup quarter-final. 

4/4 of the season 3 points after 1 game. A cup final.

What you see is an improvement in each quarter of the season. Correct me if I'm wrong but would you rather positive growth even if it means relegation or constant chopping and changing and unpredictable instability?

 

The Saints will finish 8th.

[LeodhasXD]

1 hour ago, BendtnerBairn said:

The Saints will finish 8th.

Good. I'm hoping to avoid Saints in the playoffs  they can get relegated or 8th. We've already beat Raith once this season.

 

[NorthBank]

On 16/03/2017 at 11:50, Stu said:

I still find it incredible that folk are prepared to give Ross a free pass given he was appointed with the best part of three months to the transfer window. There were still good players in that squad and we should have been capable of far better results than he managed - as the cup form proved. A lot of fans seemed to think October to January was just a waste of time as it wasn't his squad - and you could argue from the results folk at the club thought the same

I would argue Tom Hendrie's final squad and the team assembled by John Coughlin were worse than what Rae - full of lazy, injury prone has beens like Dow and Twaddle and guys who worked hard but were ultimately useless like Dunn and Crilly - although I suppose the latter was still miles better than Kyle sodding Hutton.

Stu, here is the team that got goosed on 1st Nov by the soapdodgers. Can you maybe remind me who the 'good players' are (besides Morgan and Mallan)?

Langfield, Naismith, Baird, Gordon, Irvine, Walsh, Hutton,, Mallan, Morgan, Clarkson, Shankland

[Stu]

1 hour ago, NorthBank said:

Stu, here is the team that got goosed on 1st Nov by the soapdodgers. Can you maybe remind me who the 'good players' are (besides Morgan and Mallan)?

Langfield, Naismith, Baird, Gordon, Irvine, Walsh, Hutton,, Mallan, Morgan, Clarkson, Shankland

Naismith, which is why he's now in the Premiership. Gordon is a decent defender as fans of other teams in this division testify. Shankland's form this season has been poor but I don't remember too many complaints when he returned. That team is also missing MacKenzie and Sutton as well as Hardie - another player, like Shankland, I was happy to see come in but it didn't work out for him. Although if you take away Hardie's goals against us his scoring record isn't that good!

The squad we have now is better than the one we had in the first half of the season, there's no denying that, but Ross should have been capable of getting far more out of Rae's squad than he did. 

[christinanade]

Right lot of sore botties around here. She's fizzin!

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Which of St. Mirren's managers since Lennon have got to choose their own assistant?

[djchapsticks]

11 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Which of St. Mirren's managers since Lennon have got to choose their own assistant?

Murray chose Spalding but not Alex Smith, Rae chose Farrell and Ross chose Fowler but only because Dunfermline wouldn't give permission for John Potter to go.

Craig got Goodwin and Teale foisted upon him and Teale had Longwell given to him.

[NorthBank]

16 hours ago, Stu said:

Naismith, which is why he's now in the Premiership. Gordon is a decent defender as fans of other teams in this division testify. Shankland's form this season has been poor but I don't remember too many complaints when he returned. That team is also missing MacKenzie and Sutton as well as Hardie - another player, like Shankland, I was happy to see come in but it didn't work out for him. Although if you take away Hardie's goals against us his scoring record isn't that good!

The squad we have now is better than the one we had in the first half of the season, there's no denying that, but Ross should have been capable of getting far more out of Rae's squad than he did. 

We'll just have to agree to disagree at who we think is a 'good player'. Strangely in answer to my question you identified one player outright as a 'good player'. That makes 3 'good players' in the team.

Langfield: forced into playing retirement after giving away yet another 3 points in passing the ball straight to the feet of Dumbarton's Gary Fleming for the only goal of the game.

Naismith: 'good player'.

Baird: potentially a 'good player' but young, inconsistent and made many mistakes costing valuable points.

Gordon: only became a professional player at 24 and spent all his career as a part-time player in the lower divisions. At 31 this is his first season as a full time player. Still to prove he is a 'good player' at this level.

Irvine: was terrible at left back under Rae and Ross. Rae had signed no left sided players so Jack had none to field.

Walsh: released by us, freed by Rangers and now without a club.

Hutton: now playing with Airdrie.

Clarkson: enough said.

Shankland: no goals for us this season. Fell about a lot.

McKenzie: out injured for most of the time from Oct to Jan - how was Jack supposed to play players that were injured?

Sutton: was on the bench that night as he had only scored 3 League goals all season at that point (and only 6 now).

You certainly have not convinced me that the above was a team of 'good players' underperforming. It was a shambles of a squad which Jack Ross has clearly shown by bringing in good players and getting results that he could not get from the above.

[Stu]

39 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

We'll just have to agree to disagree at who we think is a 'good player'. Strangely in answer to my question you identified one player outright as a 'good player'. That makes 3 'good players' in the team.

Langfield: forced into playing retirement after giving away yet another 3 points in passing the ball straight to the feet of Dumbarton's Gary Fleming for the only goal of the game.

Naismith: 'good player'.

Baird: potentially a 'good player' but young, inconsistent and made many mistakes costing valuable points.

Gordon: only became a professional player at 24 and spent all his career as a part-time player in the lower divisions. At 31 this is his first season as a full time player. Still to prove he is a 'good player' at this level.

Irvine: was terrible at left back under Rae and Ross. Rae had signed no left sided players so Jack had none to field.

Walsh: released by us, freed by Rangers and now without a club.

Hutton: now playing with Airdrie.

Clarkson: enough said.

Shankland: no goals for us this season. Fell about a lot.

McKenzie: out injured for most of the time from Oct to Jan - how was Jack supposed to play players that were injured?

Sutton: was on the bench that night as he had only scored 3 League goals all season at that point (and only 6 now).

You certainly have not convinced me that the above was a team of 'good players' underperforming. It was a shambles of a squad which Jack Ross has clearly shown by bringing in good players and getting results that he could not get from the above.

It was a crap squad but it should still have been capable of getting two more league wins before the turn of the year - as proven by the cup results. We certainly shouldn't have been as far adrift of everyone as we were.

I suppose the only good thing is by being quite as shite as we were it didn't fool the management into thinking players were better than they were and keeping them when they weren't capable.

[AUFC 1910]

Fair play to St Mirren.

Just goes to show that if you get the right manager in and throw money around at the right players, you start winning games.

Absolutely fucking genius.

Einstein proportions.

Nobel prize for 2+2=4 goes to............

St Mirren!!!!!























Not jealous or bitter in anyway, shape or form [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]

[djchapsticks]

2 minutes ago, AUFC 1910 said:

Fair play to St Mirren.

Just goes to show that if you get the right manager in and throw money around at the right players, you start winning games.

Absolutely fucking genius.

Einstein proportions.

Nobel prize for 2+2=4 goes to............

St Mirren!!!!!























Not jealous or bitter in anyway, shape or form

This seems to be a common theme now that we're doing better.

Please tell us how 10 players in, 10 players out and 2 of those for decent fees is 'throwing money around'?

Ross has absolutely worked within the confines of a budget which was justifiably raised a little with the sale of McAllister for a six figure sum. He shifted a LOT of folk off the wage bill to get those guys in. In fact it could be argued that the only 'extra' from the McAllister sale was Harry Davis as almost everyone else was signed or touted to at the point where he left.

It's certainly a massive misconception that we're throwing money at the issue. If we had money to throw, I dare say untested guys like Stelios and Fjelde wouldn't have been on our radar.

[AUFC 1910]

This seems to be a common theme now that we're doing better.
Please tell us how 10 players in, 10 players out and 2 of those for decent fees is 'throwing money around'?
Ross has absolutely worked within the confines of a budget which was justifiably raised a little with the sale of McAllister for a six figure sum. He shifted a LOT of folk off the wage bill to get those guys in. In fact it could be argued that the only 'extra' from the McAllister sale was Harry Davis as almost everyone else was signed or touted to at the point where he left.
It's certainly a massive misconception that we're throwing money at the issue. If we had money to throw, I dare say untested guys like Stelios and Fjelde wouldn't have been on our radar.

As I said in the post, I'm just jealous that you managed to get it right, and are looking now right on track to get yourself out of a massive hole.

Call it luck, brains, professionalism or whatever you want, you have played a master stroke in decision making.

We, on the other hand, have based our season on the 'cross your fingers' method.

I just cannot see how St Mirren will go down this season now.

Well done [emoji106]

[Stu]

16 minutes ago, AUFC 1910 said:

As I said in the post, I'm just jealous that you managed to get it right, and are looking now right on track to get yourself out of a massive hole.

Call it luck, brains, professionalism or whatever you want, you have played a master stroke in decision making.

We, on the other hand, have based our season on the 'cross your fingers' method.

I just cannot see how St Mirren will go down this season now.

Well done

Enough of the reverse psychology. Bad enough hearing it from Hughes and McCall without reading it on here.

[NorthBank]

25 minutes ago, Stu said:

It was a crap squad but it should still have been capable of getting two more league wins before the turn of the year - as proven by the cup results. We certainly shouldn't have been as far adrift of everyone as we were.

I suppose the only good thing is by being quite as shite as we were it didn't fool the management into thinking players were better than they were and keeping them when they weren't capable.

Glad you now appreciate that Ross had a 'crap squad' to work with and not 'good players'. When our crap players constantly give away games (eg Langfield v Dumbarton) then the couple of 'good players' we had then had little chance of getting a result. The fact that 10 players were shown the door and more would have been out if Ross could have managed it (Clarkson, Langfield, Webster and Quinn) then it shows just what a starting point he had.

The cup results were against non league Spartans (H), Ayr (H) and Hibs (A). Besides the fluke against Hibs, hardly a glowing reference to 'underperforming'.

[Stu]

6 hours ago, NorthBank said:

Glad you now appreciate that Ross had a 'crap squad' to work with and not 'good players'. When our crap players constantly give away games (eg Langfield v Dumbarton) then the couple of 'good players' we had then had little chance of getting a result. The fact that 10 players were shown the door and more would have been out if Ross could have managed it (Clarkson, Langfield, Webster and Quinn) then it shows just what a starting point he had.

The cup results were against non league Spartans (H), Ayr (H) and Hibs (A). Besides the fluke against Hibs, hardly a glowing reference to 'underperforming'.

 

It was a crap squad with the odd good player and should have been far closer to the rest.

 

As you said though, we'll need to agree to disagree.

[btb]

Today was the first time in months when a win might have seen us move off the bottom spot but fair play to the other strugglers although we did make up two points on Dumbarton and a goal on Ayr & Raith, but the main thing to come out of today is that we've reached that point in the season where form takes a back seat and bottle becomes the main factor - hopefully we've got enough to keep us in this division

[Distant Doonhamer]

Biggest worry for your train is that we might derail you by reversing into you. That said I`m sure we`d helpfully pull into a siding to let you steam on past.