DeeTillEhDeh Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Weren't quite a lot of the early socialists Jewish? I'm talking about certain (not all) elements within the Trotskyite Left not the founders of the Communist Party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Weren't quite a lot of the early socialists Jewish? Just Lenin and Trotsky. No one important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm talking about certain (not all) elements within the Trotskyite Left not the founders of the Communist Party. Thank eff it's just the trots. Thought you were going to have a dig at the Brixton Maoists Marxist-Leninist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 The far left in the shape of the SWP and their ilk don't though - not surprising given their long-standing anti-semitism. Do they hate Arabs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Caught me bang to rights, chappy. I should sign up for platinum and come back as The Jihadist Bear I should have added the 32 who did time for Tartan Army offences over the years. Between the Tartan Army, Islamists, N Ireland factions and the Pan Am character we've had our share of "terrorist sympathisers" as the PM would put it. Suppose you could throw in the odd German or Soviet mince pie or further back the ****** Brotherhood or the Jacobites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Just Lenin and Trotsky. No one important. Lenin wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 The far left in the shape of the SWP and their ilk don't though - not surprising given their long-standing anti-semitism. er, the leading light of the SWP for many years, was born into a Jewish family. This is the Tony Cliff referred to above (real name :Ygael Gluckstein). I am not fan of the SWP but if you;re going to chuck about anti-Semitic allegations at least try to have a clue what you're on about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 er, the leading light of the SWP for many years, was born into a Jewish family. This is the Tony Cliff referred to above (real name :Ygael Gluckstein). I am not fan of the SWP but if you;re going to chuck about anti-Semitic allegations at least try to have a clue what you're on about. I do you clearly don't - you'll get the full detailed dissection of the SWP's anti-semitic stance later. What I will say is that your response is akin to the UKIPers saying "we're not racists because we have black members". It's a lot more than the ethnicity of one of their founders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I do you clearly don't - you'll get the full detailed dissection of the SWP's anti-semitic stance later. Evening plans cancelled all over P&B land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I do you clearly don't - you'll get the full detailed dissection of the SWP's anti-semitic stance later. What I will say is that your response is akin to the UKIPers saying "we're not racists because we have black members". It's a lot more than the ethnicity of one of their founders. you appear to be conflating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. On the SWP: cult-like, yes, disastrously incompetent, yes, patronising, shrill and 90% middle class student, yes, politically sectarian yes, rape apologist /denier/cover-uppers- all yes. anti-Semitic? nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Just Google the following: Gilad Atzmon James Thring Lady Renouf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I know about Gilad Atzmon, of course. I am not sure what Michele Renouf (last heard of being banned from speaking at a party meeting by the BNP for well, being likely to shown them in a bad light) or James Thring have to do with the SWP. On Atzmon, one roaster being tolerated by the party does not make the entire party "anti-semitic". Atzmon's invovlement with the SWP was bizarre by any standards, but in a clusterfuck organisaton characterised by opportunism and self-deception, no surprise. By your logic the Lib Dems are anti-semitic on the basis of Jenny Tonge and David Ward, the Tories are anti-Semitic on the basis of, well, take your pick, and so on. anti-semitism is a strong charge and not one that should be casually chucked around. as I said earlier, it's not like there isn't a mountain of other things that can't be made to stick very easily to what's left of the SWP. Thankfully, since the shameful rape apologism and sexual abuse uncovered a few years back there is finally nowhere for them left to go, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 How much is RISE tainted by accusations of rape apologism and so on? I don't know much about them but someone I know from Glasgow Uni says those involved in its founding have come from other socialist parties guilty of the cover ups etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 How much is RISE tainted by accusations of rape apologism and so on? I don't know much about them but someone I know from Glasgow Uni says those involved in its founding have come from other socialist parties guilty of the cover ups etc. Your pal is incorrect although his information is possibly based on a misunderstanding. The rape cover uppers were the SWP, who at last count were still allied to Solidarity. There was a split in Scotland where many members of the SWP left in 2013 and maybe they are involved in RISE but if they are they are the group that left in protest at the rape and sexual abuse stuff. You can read more on the case here http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/05/comrades-war-decline-and-fall-socialist-workers-party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.