vikingTON Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 No, not Scottish football (unless a good case is actually made for a change), but rather a thread trying to explain the genuine, powderpuff football leagues, as roughly measured by their state's population, to some extent wealth, the population's general interest in the sport v its rivals. The striking example which sparks this topic to my mind is Poland. It has a population of nearly 40 million people and so is clearly a major state in Europe. Yet it currently ranks (and rarely pushes far above) 19th in the UEFA league coefficient. That's just below Cyprus, and securely among the "five million relative diddy club" of Croatia, Denmark, Scotland etc. The effect of relative poverty on the revenue raised in football in the Eastern Bloc could be cited as a factor, yet the Czech league sits 14th in the rankings with a modest ten million people (and that's with Czech attendances comparable if not lower than those in Scottish football). And Poland's economy seems to have grown and developed more successfully than the other transition states by some distance too. Poland's international side has been mediocre for decades also, so really, how can this long-standing, genuine "laughing stock of Europe" status be explained? Hungary is a lesser example of the same phenomenon - other nominations will be accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieInDundee Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Russia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spain Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Turkey - 80 million people, currently at a high of #21 after being down at #49 last year. They yo-yo around quite a bit but seldom get near the top 10 despite their size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Turkey - 80 million people, currently at a high of #21 after being down at #49 last year. They yo-yo around quite a bit but seldom get near the top 10 despite their size.Any idea of the relative interest in the game in the country as a whole? Obviously Istanbul and other big cities are ferocious in their support, but whether most of the country could be described as "football country", I'm not sure.If it's a predominantly city-based following then having three fairly equal city sides in Istanbul probably doesn't help against European rivals (by splitting the city's resources), but obviously attracts interest and money to the domestic game. I certainly didn't expect to see them as low as 21 in the table though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieInDundee Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Now I've properly thought about it Russia are pretty diverse in the sports they partake in, perhaps one of the reasons they're not particularly a powerhouse on the European/World stage. Having said that I'm sure football is the country's number one sport, at least predominately in the densely populated cities west of Siberia. I'm sure decades of Soviet rule can't have helped either. Not that I know enough about football in the days of the USSR, but it could potentially have held them back a bit just when numerous European countries were beginning to embrace the commercialisation of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 RussiaRussia are seventh in the rankings, which is low given their population, but Russia of course has a significant population outside Europe and that share is perhaps unlikely to financially support highly competitive club sides. The same city effect could apply to Moscow as Istanbul, given that Zenit are successfully flying the flag for now. The other qualifier would be the popularity of the mostly Russian ice hockey league in the region.I'd say that Turkey counts (though perhaps just a developing league for now), Russia is borderline. The only league that they should obviously be overtaking is Portugal, but that's supported by being a part Brazilian colony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Point of order: I've just checked again, and Turkey are currently 12th in the league (UEFA association club) rankings not 21st. The Czechs are 14th. So... nowhere near as bad for the Turks, but still not very good either. Sitting beneath Switzerland, a country known for its extensive winter-sports competition to football is a minter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieInDundee Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Russia are seventh in the rankings, which is low given their population, but Russia of course has a significant population outside Europe and that share is perhaps unlikely to financially support highly competitive club sides. Which is what I find strange. Most of the larger cities in Russia are found in the west and surely make them attractive financial proposition for investors with a relatively big football following? Around ten of these cities have a million or more inhabitants as well (not for a minute suggesting that a big city=big and successful football club) but you'd have thought in a country like Russia this would potentially be a platform for teams like Rubin Kazan/Zenit to have sustained success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Zenit are recent European trophy winners and skooshed into the last 16 of the CL, so I don't think that's where any problem lies. It could be that while the likes of Kazan are big cities, they're also still viewed as being provincial, and offputting to investors in that sense. Being a day from any other major settlement by road etc. arguably enhances that 'provincial city' status more than in densely populated Europe. Thinking about both Istanbul and Moscow - where there are at least four significant outfits, rarely doing anything other than slitting each others' throats - leads me to think that having multiple, roughly equal teams in a big city is clearly harmful to the wider performance of a national league. This would also be a plausible explanation for the failure of Hungary's glorified Budapest pub league as well. But strangely, Poland doesn't seem to fit into that theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tongue_tied_danny Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I've got a few Polish mates and they're not really interested in Football. From what they tell me, Speedway is more popular across there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Has the Italian league been under achieving since the mid 00's? Juve have been more of a force recently and managed to get to the Champions League final last season and Inter won it a few years ago but on a whole I think you'd expect more from the clubs, especially AC. Napoli,Udinese and Fiorentina are capable of doing damage in the Europa, surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer doon south Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Wales. The nation ranked top 10 in fifa rankings with Swansea in premier league Cardiff always sort of fighting to get in premier league and Newport County also doing well in the football league. Wales have bale Ramsey Williams ledley Allen all top players. Yet their domestic league is 50th in coefficients. The new saints are the only professional club and they reside over the border. I think they over achieve and under achieve in these areas and need to find the middle ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabGaz Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 For being the 3rd most populous country in Europe, France seems to have greatly underachieved in European competition. I think it's only Marseille (CL) and PSG (CWC) that have won trophies. They're probably 5th or 6th in the co-efficient rankings but i'd imagine they'll be someway off challenging the big 4 leagues anytime soon unless PSG really kick on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel hutz Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 For being the 3rd most populous country in Europe, France seems to have greatly underachieved in European competition. I think it's only Marseille (CL) and PSG (CWC) that have won trophies. They're probably 5th or 6th in the co-efficient rankings but i'd imagine they'll be someway off challenging the big 4 leagues anytime soon unless PSG really kick on. Egg chasing is the main sport though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Poland, to my untrained eye, seems to suffer from big minority sports. Speedway, as mentioned above, basketball and ice hockey seem fairly big out there and will eat into football's proverbial share of the pie. As for Istanbul I can understand the many teams in one city argument and it may be true. Istanbul, however, is a city of 14Million, bigger than some countries that rank above it. You'd have through it could support 3 top class club sides. That said, Istanbul had a population of just 1.7Million 50 years ago. That's going to play a part too, with loyalties taking time to bed in. Combine that with economic development relative to Germany and England etc. and the country still retaining a large rural population and you many have your answer. Certainly a potential power of the future though. I think Hungary's underperformance is perceived almost completely because of the massive above weight punching it did previously. I haven't look but I doubt it does any worse than say, Bulgaria, which is comparable size wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabGaz Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Egg chasing is the main sport though... Perhaps traditionally but football is far better attended than rugby these days. In fact, the French rugby crowds are on average pretty much the same as they are in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanetti Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Russia You have to remember that ice hockey is more popular than football in Russia though, which has a big impact. The mostly Russian based KHL isn't far behind the NHL in the US and Canada in terms of quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Austria, like Hungary once pioneers of the game but have been in the doldrums since the 70s internationally and the 80s in terms of European competition. Obviously population and winter sports are an element to lack of investment in the Austrian Bundesliga. Like Poland the major stadia got a facelift thanks to co-hosting Euro 2008, so I don't see facilities being an issue and a lot of Euro clubs use it as a preseason destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloop John B Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Austria seem to underperform in compared to other small Western European states like Netherlands, Belgium and Switzerland. Red Bull Salzburg should be a regular CL group stage team but bottle the qualification process every year. Serbia are ranked 27th below Scotland which for a country that produces good players and are pretty big on football is really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Serbia is decent shout, they seem to lack in a lot of key elements such as stadia, gdp and like Russia have lost a lot of clubs that competed at the top end of the Yugoslavian league. They still seem to develop a lot of decent class players but due to lack of investment they are readilly cherry picked by more established leagues, especially Italy. There also seems to be high levels of corruption at a grass roots level. Did Arkan not 'own' one of the Belgrade clubs? These problems have nullified their impact on the european front and while they regularly qualify for international tournaments they don't make an impression in the actual finals. They do very well at u21/ u20 level so they must be doing something right in terms of grassroots coaching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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