Tommy Robinson

[carpetmonster]

17 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

By the way, of course Scotland has its share of racists. Perhaps the lack of egregious rioting here stems from our far-right hating independence supporters more than they hate immigrants: see the same venue, Sept 2014.

Although, they’re similarly a great bunch of lads who’re only concerned for the welfare of their fellow British citizens

 

[invergowrie arab]

13 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

Although, they’re similarly a great bunch of lads who’re only concerned for the welfare of their fellow British citizens

 

You love to see it 

 

[Claudia Gentile]

[Melanius Mullarkey]

1 hour ago, invergowrie arab said:

You love to see it 

 

It’s times like this when I love social media.

[Pocketman]

54 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

It’s times like this when I love social media.

I do love this code that stems from being a 12 year old at school, that whatever heinous act has been committed, nothing is worse than "grassing". Really baffles me the number of people who view the world through that perspective - a colleague has been the victim of harassment/bullying/abuse from a senior colleague at work? That's too bad but fair play to her for not grassing. 

You see it on here also. A real small person's (in all senses) view of how to conduct yourself in adulthood. Unless of course you are in the mafia. Or a member of a listed terrorist group approached to be on the payroll of an intelligence agency - then I guess it is a key consideration. 

[GHF-23]

18 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

"Refugees welcome".
Not a single brown or black face to be seen anywhere. Cringe af.

Scotland has low levels of racism because it is >95% white.
We're still working on 1600s religious sectarianism. We'll get to racism at some point.

You are a colossal gimp. Worse than that you are very boring

[GordonS]

17 hours ago, ScotiaNostra said:

I think your probably right even if its an unpleasent thought to contemplate, Scotland is as racist as anywhere else. It doesnt show so much because of the lack of immigration to Scotland but I think it would unfortunately

From polls on social attitudes, from evidence of the personal experiences of ethnic minorities and from data on outcomes in things like employment, housing, child poverty etc you have to assume the proportion of people with racists attitudes, and who will act on them, is not much better in Scotland than elsewhere. But the evidence also suggests is that we have a much higher level of anti-racism - a larger proportion of white Scots aren't willing to let it pass when they see it or when they can do something about it. There are loads of small projects run or involving white locals, especially in the cities, to help refugees and immigrants feel welcomed and become part of the community.

Would we have more racism if we had more immigration? I'm not sure. The ethnic minority population in Glasgow has doubled in ten years and is now one-fifth of the city. There hasn't been a similar increase in racist crimes, graffiti, support for racist parties etc. If anything it's gone the other way. But you might be right.

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Pocketman said:

I do love this code that stems from being a 12 year old at school, that whatever heinous act has been committed, nothing is worse than "grassing". Really baffles me the number of people who view the world through that perspective - a colleague has been the victim of harassment/bullying/abuse from a senior colleague at work? That's too bad but fair play to her for not grassing. 

You see it on here also. A real small person's (in all senses) view of how to conduct yourself in adulthood. Unless of course you are in the mafia. Or a member of a listed terrorist group approached to be on the payroll of an intelligence agency - then I guess it is a key consideration. 

Not sure this is the place for this story, but anyway...

We had a neighbour diagonally downstairs that threw his partner around. They were in their early 20s with two young children. We could hear her getting hit, screaming in pain, having things thrown at her. We phoned the police every time. The police were usually shite, accepting the most laughable excuses and treating us like we were annoying them, though some were very good.

After he properly leathered her there was plenty of evidence and the PF charged him, even though she was still with him. We went to court to give evidence but he pled guilty on the day and we weren't needed. We arrived home from Livingston at the same time as them and he shouted "Grass" at us. I yelled at him 'Yes, that's exactly what we are and every time we hear you hit her we're calling the police, so why don't you just stop it?' (Btw I'm about twice his size and one of the police officers with experience of him and his family had told us we had nothing to fear from him, calling him a "wee shitebag" - I'm not that brave).

Opportunities to help that woman were missed and they took her children into care. She moved back in with her mother a few months later. Maybe if more of our neighbours had grassed too, the police and social work would have intervened sooner.

I'm no fan of the police and I don't have a lot of faith in the justice system, but the idea that there should be a taboo against grassing is juvenile at best.

[itzdrk]

3 hours ago, Claudia Gentile said:

This is a really unhelpful image.  There were a lot more fascists at it's peak.  Still less but it's complacent to pretend this is how it was.  

[Granny Danger]

52 minutes ago, GordonS said:

From polls on social attitudes, from evidence of the personal experiences of ethnic minorities and from data on outcomes in things like employment, housing, child poverty etc you have to assume the proportion of people with racists attitudes, and who will act on them, is not much better in Scotland than elsewhere. But the evidence also suggests is that we have a much higher level of anti-racism - a larger proportion of white Scots aren't willing to let it pass when they see it or when they can do something about it. There are loads of small projects run or involving white locals, especially in the cities, to help refugees and immigrants feel welcomed and become part of the community.

Would we have more racism if we had more immigration? I'm not sure. The ethnic minority population in Glasgow has doubled in ten years and is now one-fifth of the city. There hasn't been a similar increase in racist crimes, graffiti, support for racist parties etc. If anything it's gone the other way. But you might be right.

I’d broadly agree with all of that with the caveat that there could be a difference between an increase in racist crimes and an increase in reported racist crimes.  In recent years, and particularly since the pandemic, I think getting public authorities to respond to anything is more difficult so it could be folk are not reporting things to the extent they should be.

Of course this is just conjecture.

 

 

[A Diamond For Me]

I don't think that Scots are less racist than English people as such, but it's undeniably true that Scottish racists have a much lower level of organisation and action.  Most radical right sentiment in Scotland organises within unionism and anti-Catholicism, rather than anti-refugee, anti-immigration and white supremacist action. 

[parsforlife]

I'm not really interested in where we are in the international racist league table.  We have a lot of racists in Scotland and they need to be monitored, argued against and totally shut down where needed.

Anyone who doesn't think we have an issue should ask 100 folk what they call an independently run convivence store or what they call the local takeaway,  you'll get far too many uncomfortable answers to that.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, itzdrk said:

This is a really unhelpful image.  There were a lot more fascists at it's peak.  Still less but it's complacent to pretend this is how it was.  

Were they the usual manky jaiket rangersy types or did it look more poor Tommy style? 

[BFTD]

3 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

I'm not really interested in where we are in the international racist league table.  We have a lot of racists in Scotland and they need to be monitored, argued against and totally shut down where needed.

Anyone who doesn't think we have an issue should ask 100 folk what they call an independently run convivence store or what they call the local takeaway,  you'll get far too many uncomfortable answers to that.

I hadn't heard the terms you're referring to for a long time until the fash mob started seeing a resurgence in popularity - I get the impression that some of the folk you'd expect have been putting the feelers out to see if Nigel's made it OK to be openly racist again.

[parsforlife]

4 minutes ago, BFTD said:

I hadn't heard the terms you're referring to for a long time until the fash mob started seeing a resurgence in popularity - I get the impression that some of the folk you'd expect have been putting the feelers out to see if Nigel's made it OK to be openly racist again.

There's certainly been a spike in open racism since brexit, but those who have returned to speaking openly in terms like that were always racist in the intermeeting period, what they learned during the gap was 'can't say that now'  rather than 'I shouldn't say that because I have understood the offence it causes and I should respect peoples right to not be judged on their skin colour or nationality'

[BFTD]

11 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

There's certainly been a spike in open racism since brexit, but those who have returned to speaking openly in terms like that were always racist in the intermeeting period, what they learned during the gap was 'can't say that now'  rather than 'I shouldn't say that because I have understood the offence it causes and I should respect peoples right to not be judged on their skin colour or nationality'

"You can't say that now" is such a bizarre comment.

You've just said it, you f**king roaster  

[invergowrie arab]

Scotland's racism has been dressed up as sectarianism as if anti - Catholicism was about transubstantiation rather than alien people and culture.

That the organised left and labour movement  (and it is the left, many of our civic and religious organisations are completely absent when facing down the right) are able to organise so effectively is doubtless down to immigrants being part of that movement through the decades.

If you look at England as a whole it looks like we organise more effectively but I would have thought London, Liverpool, Manchester or Bristol would all be a very similar picture. 

[parsforlife]

8 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

Scotland's racism has been dressed up as sectarianism as if anti - Catholicism was about transubstantiation rather than alien people and culture.

That the organised left and labour movement  (and it is the left, many of our civic and religious organisations are completely absent when facing down the right) are able to organise so effectively is doubtless down to immigrants being part of that movement through the decades.

If you look at England as a whole it looks like we organise more effectively but I would have thought London, Liverpool, Manchester or Bristol would all be a very similar picture. 

I was abit surprised at bristol, It has a huge lefty liberal culture , 2nd to only brighton if you look at where greens succeed. There is an element of 'proper Englishmen' in its surrounds but I'd have there would have been enough to shout them down.

[Parttimesupporter]

3 hours ago, parsforlife said:

I'm not really interested in where we are in the international racist league table.  We have a lot of racists in Scotland and they need to be monitored, argued against and totally shut down where needed.

Anyone who doesn't think we have an issue should ask 100 folk what they call an independently run convivence store or what they call the local takeaway,  you'll get far too many uncomfortable answers to that.

Totally agree with the first paragraph.  For the avoidance of doubt what follows isn't me having a pop at you!

The second one raises an interesting point.  Is everyone who uses the terms you refer to a racist?  I'm pretty sure I would have used the term for a takeaway in my youth (over 40 years ago in my defence).  I've no time for the "You can't say anything these days" brigade, or people who chuck terms like "woke" or "snowflake" around rather than articulating an argument.  However......

There should be a relentless focus on those who are genuinely racist, in particular those who express their hatred violently.  They are a very small minority, but dangerous when they can find a way to use events like the Southport tragedy to their advantage.

I believe in debating with people who are vocally against immigration.  Not all of them are racist.  One of the many disappointing aspects of the new government is that, despite their huge majority which guarantees them at least 5 years in power, they have not tried to open up a more mature debate about immigration.  Friends who work in health and social care are clear that it is only immigrant workers who are saving those systems from collapse.  (UK) politicians need to be honest about this.  They also need to openly discuss genuine concerns people have about immigration contributing to homelessness and them not being able to get an appointment with their GP.  This post would become even more TLDR if I tried to explain how I would try address these concerns.  My point is that if we adopt a kneejerk approach of accusing anyone who expresses such concerns of being a racist, we could end up driving them into the arms of the racists, or at least the likes of Reform. 

Dodgy terms is another tricky area.  Obviously there is a world of difference between a racist hurling abuse at someone because of the colour of their skin and someone using a dodgy term to describe their visit to the corner shop.  I have mates younger than me who will use the P word.  Trying to persuade them not to is a better strategy than calling them a racist. 

One of my favourite people is in her 90s, and has used the phrase "As black as the Ace of Spades" to describe a carer.  Tut, tut.  Is she racist, or just using a phrase that is normal for her generation?  For a number of years she worked as a nurse with a Leprosy Mission in West Africa, for miserable pay and I imagine significant risk to her own health.  A fair chunk of her relatively small income goes out in donations to charities, most of which provide support in Africa.

Summary of a post that is too long? - for most of us who are anti-racist there is a spectrum of stuff we don't like from old-fashioned language through to violent hatred.  Outside of extreme racists I believe most folk can be reasoned with, so polite debate is the way to go.

[PossilYM]

On Saturday it looked maybe 300/400 turned out for what was being called a Pro UK rally, whatever that means. 

Although in Saturday’s case and going by who turned up it was the cesspool of Scottish politics from Holocaust deniers to those who think a good family week away is a loyalist drinking club in Belfast's Sandy Row.

My question is, how many would have turned up if the guest speaker was Tommy Robinson himself?