Tommy Robinson

[carpetmonster]

4 minutes ago, PossilYM said:

On Saturday it looked maybe 300/400 turned out for what was being called a Pro UK rally, whatever that means. 

Although in Saturday’s case and going by who turned up it was the cesspool of Scottish politics from Holocaust deniers to those who think a good family week away is a loyalist drinking club in Belfast's Sandy Row.

My question is, how many would have turned up if the guest speaker was Tommy Robinson himself?

Probably a few more but they’d all have been polis serving him his arrest warrant. 

[invergowrie arab]

10 hours ago, Parttimesupporter said:

Totally agree with the first paragraph.  For the avoidance of doubt what follows isn't me having a pop at you!

The second one raises an interesting point.  Is everyone who uses the terms you refer to a racist?  I'm pretty sure I would have used the term for a takeaway in my youth (over 40 years ago in my defence).  I've no time for the "You can't say anything these days" brigade, or people who chuck terms like "woke" or "snowflake" around rather than articulating an argument.  However......

There should be a relentless focus on those who are genuinely racist, in particular those who express their hatred violently.  They are a very small minority, but dangerous when they can find a way to use events like the Southport tragedy to their advantage.

I believe in debating with people who are vocally against immigration.  Not all of them are racist.  One of the many disappointing aspects of the new government is that, despite their huge majority which guarantees them at least 5 years in power, they have not tried to open up a more mature debate about immigration.  Friends who work in health and social care are clear that it is only immigrant workers who are saving those systems from collapse.  (UK) politicians need to be honest about this.  They also need to openly discuss genuine concerns people have about immigration contributing to homelessness and them not being able to get an appointment with their GP.  This post would become even more TLDR if I tried to explain how I would try address these concerns.  My point is that if we adopt a kneejerk approach of accusing anyone who expresses such concerns of being a racist, we could end up driving them into the arms of the racists, or at least the likes of Reform. 

Dodgy terms is another tricky area.  Obviously there is a world of difference between a racist hurling abuse at someone because of the colour of their skin and someone using a dodgy term to describe their visit to the corner shop.  I have mates younger than me who will use the P word.  Trying to persuade them not to is a better strategy than calling them a racist. 

One of my favourite people is in her 90s, and has used the phrase "As black as the Ace of Spades" to describe a carer.  Tut, tut.  Is she racist, or just using a phrase that is normal for her generation?  For a number of years she worked as a nurse with a Leprosy Mission in West Africa, for miserable pay and I imagine significant risk to her own health.  A fair chunk of her relatively small income goes out in donations to charities, most of which provide support in Africa.

Summary of a post that is too long? - for most of us who are anti-racist there is a spectrum of stuff we don't like from old-fashioned language through to violent hatred.  Outside of extreme racists I believe most folk can be reasoned with, so polite debate is the way to go.

Just a whole load of nonsense. Nobody is saying someone is racist for having previously used terms that were once socially acceptable.

What people do say is you are pig ignorant if, once explained, you continue to use those terms as "you aren't racist" or give money to charities in Africa.

Same with anti traveller racism and homophobic terms that were common in the last decade.

Edited September 9 by invergowrie arab

[Parttimesupporter]

2 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Just a whole load of nonsense. Nobody is saying someone is racist for having previously used terms that were once socially acceptable.

What people do say is you are pig ignorant if, once explained, you continue to use those terms as "you aren't racist" or give money to charities in Africa.

Same with anti traveller racism and homophobic terms that were common in the last decade.

I felt that was implied in the original post thought that I quoted.  Perhaps that wasn't the case.  What I was trying to say is that there are people who will accuse others of being racist for using such terms, and doing so is unlikely to be productive.  I can remember many instances of this in my student days, which weren't yesterday.

I agree that there is more of an issue if someone persists in using a term once you have explained why it is problematic and ask them to stop using it.  In my experience it often helps to ask the friend/relative if they would use that term in the presence of a member of the group in question.  And if the answer is "no", why do they think using it at any time is OK?

 

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

18 minutes ago, Parttimesupporter said:

I felt that was implied in the original post thought that I quoted.  Perhaps that wasn't the case.  What I was trying to say is that there are people who will accuse others of being racist for using such terms, and doing so is unlikely to be productive.  I can remember many instances of this in my student days, which weren't yesterday.

I agree that there is more of an issue if someone persists in using a term once you have explained why it is problematic and ask them to stop using it.  In my experience it often helps to ask the friend/relative if they would use that term in the presence of a member of the group in question.  And if the answer is "no", why do they think using it at any time is OK?

You make a lot of good points in your posts.

Most people when talking about racism, they tend to mean race-hate, feelings of racial superiority and/or wanting to discriminate based on race.

Context matters, and it’s context which is usually indicative of when a term’s usage is racist or not, as well as the history of and nature of the term itself.

It’s not all black and white (pun intended) like some are desperate to make out.

Edited September 9 by CarrbridgeSaintee

[itzdrk]

18 hours ago, itzdrk said:

This is a really unhelpful image.  There were a lot more fascists at it's peak.  Still less but it's complacent to pretend this is how it was.  

E.g.

 

 

 

[gannonball]

18 hours ago, BFTD said:

"You can't say that now" is such a bizarre comment.

You've just said it, you f**king roaster  

Tam Cowan says that sometimes, on national radio.

[carpetmonster]

2 minutes ago, gannonball said:

Tam Cowan says that sometimes, on national radio.

To be fair, Tam’s still in 1974. 

[itzdrk]

19 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Were they the usual manky jaiket rangersy types or did it look more poor Tommy style? 

The answer is yes. 

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

To be fair, Tam’s still in 1974. 

He's like someone who was already middle-aged in 1974, he was only 5.

[Granny Danger]

3 hours ago, gannonball said:

Tam Cowan says that sometimes, on national radio.

I’m not sure using Tam Cowan as an example of …mmm… anything is a good idea.

 

[carpetmonster]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

I’m not sure using Tam Cowan as an example of …mmm… anything is a good idea.

 

 

'This picture has been brought to you by the Monochrome Tie Board'

[carpetmonster]

[BFTD]

1 hour ago, carpetmonster said:

Most amusing, but they'll absolutely have Sun hacks investigating the background of everyone involved in the business now.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

2 hours ago, carpetmonster said:

 

'This picture has been brought to you by the Monochrome Tie Board'

The f**king nick o’ him.

[The Golden God]

Lol 

[velo army]

A parody, Shirley. 

[Freedom Farter]

On 08/09/2024 at 20:35, invergowrie arab said:

Scotland's racism has been dressed up as sectarianism as if anti - Catholicism was about transubstantiation rather than alien people and culture.

That the organised left and labour movement  (and it is the left, many of our civic and religious organisations are completely absent when facing down the right) are able to organise so effectively is doubtless down to immigrants being part of that movement through the decades.

If you look at England as a whole it looks like we organise more effectively but I would have thought London, Liverpool, Manchester or Bristol would all be a very similar picture. 

You might find this interesting or you might find it a boring pile of shite. Either way, it goes into detail on what you were getting at in your comment.

https://www.conter.scot/2021/6/4/the-scottish-elite-and-anti-irish-racism/

[Theroadlesstravelled]

 

51 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

You might find this interesting or you might find it a boring pile of shite. Either way, it goes into detail on what you were getting at in your comment.

https://www.conter.scot/2021/6/4/the-scottish-elite-and-anti-irish-racism/

Interesting.

To me, Ireland has left Scotland behind in the last 25 years.
Ireland has made significant steps to curb religious hatred and it's now a forward looking country with a strong economy. Scotland, on the other hand has been ravaged by Brexit and Austerity, now is completely reliant on handouts from London and of course still loves a wee walk for King Billy.

We're in the mud.

[Parttimesupporter]

9 hours ago, The Golden God said:

Lol 

From the statement - "We must strive to foster a community built on mutual respect and understanding", which is why our marches routinely stop or slow down outside Catholic churches and give it laldy.

[A Diamond For Me]

It's a clear marker that they know they've lost their position of social power that they're resorting to this half-arsed appeal to protection from "hatred".  They would never have thought of doing such a thing in previous generations, just sneered and gotten on with it.