Mr Heliums Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 A fair summary of the other night. a bit premature in my opinion for St Johnstone supporters to be so down on TW-if nothing else, surely his Scottish Cup win allows him a good few years grace from the sack? I don't think you'll find many calling for his head. While I don't think - and have never thought - he's as good as he's often portrayed in the media, bottom line is he's a good man manager with some flaws. He hasn't been in this position before, so he deserves a chance to learn from it. Besides, the romantic in me could never want the boot for the guy who brought us the only big win in our history. I'd rather go down frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 You just had to bring that up, didn't you... I have a moniker to live up too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I won't call for his head and have sympathy for him on a few fronts but if we have poor results and performances against Inverness and County, especially if they display comparisons to what we've witnessed recently, then I'd certainly be worried about us going forward as his record in the transfer market is verging on very poor. We've heard there are more funds to be released but John Sutton would certainly have been a primary target and for all I was disappointed he wasn't allowed to get his three main targets in the summer of 2014, have Goodwillie, Dunne and Craig shown anything elsewhere (or here in case of Craig) to show they'd have been good additions? Being (very) generous, he has a one in three record in the transfer market (admittedly some short-term fixes and loans in there) but that won't be good enough this summer I fear. And what if he does start next season poorly? Will Steve Brown be prepared to shell out six-figures to pay him off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Is his record in the transfer market verging on 'very poor' though? He persuaded Stevie May to stay on(I know he didn't bring him in), gave him a chance and persuaded him to sign a contract extension which in the end netted us £800k. He bought O'Halloran from nowhere, developed him and again got him to sign an extension which brought in £500k. That's over a million profit. When was the last time we received any money at all for a player? Genuine question as I honestly can't remember. He also brought in Dunne who played a big part in our cup win, regardless of what he's done elsewhere. Wotherspoon, Easton and Shaugnessy have all been good additions to our first team, not just the squad. I'd add Cummins to that list as well despite his most recent performance. A fair few of his poorer signings were in desperation. Stevie May was apparently keen to stay then had a late change of heart, then near the end of the transfer window just after Chris Kane went out on loan, Maclean picked up a serious injury. So we had to bring in Brian Graham (who did OK) and Morgan and McFadden, who didn't. Prior to that, fallon and iwelumo were obviously just squad players to provide a target man option.. Neither did anything whilst here. Start of this season: Shaughnessy and Cummins success, McKay and Sutton not. Liam Craig average I'd say. Fisher has been very good in some games, awful in others. January just past we desperately needed to freshen up and we didn't due to only leaving ourselves one day of the window to deal in, other than Swanson who is a decent signing for us. Once again, we're left searching around the free transfers and bring in two players who haven't really featured. I'd like to see Tommy get a full close season, yes without any trips to armenia(!), to bring in a fair few players to bring the squad on. Not left to the last minute then having to rush out and bring in someone as cover. I think then it would be fairer to judge his transfer dealings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I think then it would be fairer to judge his transfer dealings. When I spoke about having some sympathy for him, it was related to some of things you mentioned but just because you don't get some targets, there's not really any excuse for guys like Alan Morgan. Also an argument that the number of short-term fixes could be down to poor contingency planning, although Steve Brown's not wanting players sitting in the stand is obviously a hindrance on that front. He's signed 26 players, how many have really made an impact, measured against the stalwarts that have been here for years? Easton and Wotherspoon have from his first summer but did he even identify them or were the wheels put in motion by Lomas? He'd specifically mentioned Easton before he left. O'Halloran was a great signing for a club like Saints and Dunne undoubtedly made an important contribution, as did Swanson a year later, eventually, when Wright realised he was a left midfielder. He should be a good permanent addition. Graham was a decent signing and from last summer Shaughnessy and Cummins look good. Fisher is alright but would he be playing if Mackay hadn't got injured? There have been other signings that have been fine but no more than that. So 26 players, 2 of whom have started well (Shaughnessy and Cummins), 2 of whom have only been on loan (Dunne and Graham - and he was out of the team for a long spell in the middle of the season), 1 who had a good loan and will hopefully do well and 3 guys who've proven it over an extended spell (Easton, Wotherspoon and O'Halloran) but 2 of them may not have even been identified by Wright. I certainly wouldn't class Lappin, Craig or McDonald (another Lomas target?), for example, as bad signings but guys of that standard won't cut it this summer I fear. The full list if you want to assess them for yourself: Summer 2013 Banks Easton Jahic Brown Croft Edwards (L) McDonald Wotherspoon Fallon Winter 2014 Clancy Dunne Iwelumo O'Halloran Summer 2014 Graham (L) Lappin McFadden Morgan (L) Winter 2015 Swanson (L) Summer 2015 Craig Cummins Fisher (L) McKay Shaughnessy Sutton Winter 2016 Doyle Krachunov Swanson (Source for those is transfermarkt.co.uk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Love III Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I'd like to see Tommy get a full close season, yes without any trips to armenia(!), to bring in a fair few players to bring the squad on. Not left to the last minute then having to rush out and bring in someone as cover. I think then it would be fairer to judge his transfer dealings. I think that's an important point on a number of fronts. Though it does seem a crazy thing to say on the face of it, missing out on Europe (as seems almost inevitable now) wouldn't be the worst thing for everyone concerned. Offers the players a proper break, which many haven't had in years, and providing the manager with the time and freedom to make signings and assemble a squad without having to rush to put a side together for qualifying fixtures in late June. May just be the freshness we need going into what could be a difficult season. Just need to get this one out of the way first without too much damage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 That's over a million profit. When was the last time we received any money at all for a player? Genuine question as I honestly can't remember. Proper money must be Danny Griffin in the summer of 2000? Swansea paid a nominal fee to get Scotland a few months early but can't remember any other serious transfer fee. Wright did very well with May and O'Halloran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 St Johnstone transfer thread for this pish. Thank you x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenrothes 1884 saint Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 When I spoke about having some sympathy for him, it was related to some of things you mentioned but just because you don't get some targets, there's not really any excuse for guys like Alan Morgan. Also an argument that the number of short-term fixes could be down to poor contingency planning, although Steve Brown's not wanting players sitting in the stand is obviously a hindrance on that front. He's signed 26 players, how many have really made an impact, measured against the stalwarts that have been here for years? Easton and Wotherspoon have from his first summer but did he even identify them or were the wheels put in motion by Lomas? He'd specifically mentioned Easton before he left. O'Halloran was a great signing for a club like Saints and Dunne undoubtedly made an important contribution, as did Swanson a year later, eventually, when Wright realised he was a left midfielder. He should be a good permanent addition. Graham was a decent signing and from last summer Shaughnessy and Cummins look good. Fisher is alright but would he be playing if Mackay hadn't got injured? There have been other signings that have been fine but no more than that. So 26 players, 2 of whom have started well (Shaughnessy and Cummins), 2 of whom have only been on loan (Dunne and Graham - and he was out of the team for a long spell in the middle of the season), 1 who had a good loan and will hopefully do well and 3 guys who've proven it over an extended spell (Easton, Wotherspoon and O'Halloran) but 2 of them may not have even been identified by Wright. I certainly wouldn't class Lappin, Craig or McDonald (another Lomas target?), for example, as bad signings but guys of that standard won't cut it this summer I fear. The full list if you want to assess them for yourself: Summer 2013 Banks Easton Jahic Brown Croft Edwards (L) McDonald Wotherspoon Fallon Winter 2014 Clancy Dunne Iwelumo O'Halloran Summer 2014 Graham (L) Lappin McFadden Morgan (L) Winter 2015 Swanson (L) Summer 2015 Craig Cummins Fisher (L) McKay Shaughnessy Sutton Winter 2016 Doyle Krachunov Swanson (Source for those is transfermarkt.co.uk) Transfermarkt have forgotten his best loanee, Abeid, not that it changes things too much,although I was hopeful of more signings of similar quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Van Dyke Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Transfermarkt have forgotten his best loanee, Abeid, not that it changes things too much,although I was hopeful of more signings of similar quality that was when lomas was the manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I'd more than happily take another rushed close season if it meant Europe again, it's hardly been a hindrance to us in the past few years. Not going to happen, but a club our size can't just take a break from Europe when we don't fancy it. Could argue it's hindering us currently. I suspect even TW and the players don't want it this summer. We had 38 days between Aberdeen and Alashkert last summer. For a club of Saints' size, that's managable once but not four/five summers in a row when you are keeping the same small group of core players. It'd be great for fans (again) but long-term I don't see the benefit for the club. Heart of course says it'd be fantastic again but head says it would spell bad news. It's not going to happen though so is a futile discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I'd more than happily take another rushed close season if it meant Europe again, it's hardly been a hindrance to us in the past few years. Not going to happen, but a club our size can't just take a break from Europe when we don't fancy it. I think, long term, missing out on Europe next season would be better. Is it just coincidence its Dave Mackay and Chris Millar who are the ones with the severe injury problems this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 If we made Europe for the fifth consecutive year, I think any argument that the players look lethargic would be completely overshadowed by the results we've consistently been getting at the end of the season (by that I mean position wise, not so much our late good form that seems to happen.) I don't think you could really argue it's being detrimental to our season if we finished fourth again. That's more than a fair point but this season is the first time we've looked properly lethargic and feeling a bit sorry for ourselves. I'd worry that even if we come out of this run, there would be another around the corner but potentially more fatal. I don't want to be arguing that Europe would be a bad thing and would embrace it as it should be if we were to pull it off but I do think it would really show next season in our league form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Not sure I buy this argument about players being tired due to Europe. It's not like they're playing an English Championship or Premier League style schedule of fixtures. It's mostly one game a week with the occasional mid week thrown in there. Do they really need a 'full' summer break to get over that...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsjfc Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Not sure I buy this argument about players being tired due to Europe. It's not like they're playing an English Championship or Premier League style schedule of fixtures. It's mostly one game a week with the occasional mid week thrown in there. Do they really need a 'full' summer break to get over that...? Saints played 50+ games the Scottish Cup year probably more than plenty of English Premier league clubs did that season but obviously without the squad sizes they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Yeah only Celtic have played more games over the last three/four seasons. The unofficial Twitter has us having 150 days combined since the end of 12/13. Which means the players only get a month off before charging straight back in to a ~45 game season. Wouldnt be amazed if the starting elevens been virtually the same for the vast majority of that time aswell. Theres also mental fatigue besides the physical stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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