BerwickMad Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I don't understandNow there's a shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Now there's a shock. Lame. If you're going to spout nonsense be prepared to explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 This stuff is almost as annoying as Grimbo. Grimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Definitely Putin and Markel so far in the 21st century Who is Markel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Putin is the boy, absolutely zero fucks given by that Russian lunatic. Nobody messes with Vladimir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 From a certain Russian perspective, he is the man, no doubt about that. He's mad enough to push the button as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I think you're misunderstanding me. Farage, clegg etc can't either as they don't and never have lead a state. It's an argument for independece and Scotland being a state. But until it is you can't really call any Scottish fm a statesman. 'leader of a state' seems to be an idiosyncratically narrow definition of a statesman I think you might be getting muddled up with 'Head of state' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Who is Markel? Angela Merkel I assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 'leader of a state' seems to be an idiosyncratically narrow definition of a statesman I think you might be getting muddled up with 'Head of state' No, to be a 'statesman' you have to have a profile and affect on international relations/the international stage. To be the head of a devolved government gives you no scope to do this. Some people who are not heads of state like Henry (war criminal) Kissinger or Dag Hammarskjold can also be considered statesmen, but definitely not any Scottish FM this side of independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 I'm not fishing, I love sturgeon but she can't be called a stateswomanIm Of course she can, unless you're reading a different definition of 'statesman' to all those I've read. None I've seen even mention statehood. Most – and I'm generalising – agree that statesmanship simply requires effective and respected political governance over a lengthy period. I think Sturgeon is one MSP who could be described as statesmanlike. She's been effective in government – and respected by all sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Of course she can, unless you're reading a different definition of 'statesman' to all those I've read. None I've seen even mention statehood. Most – and I'm generalising – agree that statesmanship simply requires effective and respected political governance over a lengthy period. I think Sturgeon is one MSP who could be described as statesmanlike. She's been effective in government – and respected by all sides. A statesman, or woman, is somebody who has a profile and influence on the international stage or someone who is extremely prominent nationally for a long time. Sturgeon can't be classed as one, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 No, to be a 'statesman' you have to have a profile and affect on international relations/the international stage. Someone like Abraham Lincoln would struggle to be considered a statesman according to those criteria. Whose definition of statesman are you following, or are you just making your own definition up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Someone like Abraham Lincoln would struggle to be considered a statesman according to those criteria. Whose definition of statesman are you following, or are you just making your own definition up? No he wouldn't. I am following the definition. Look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 No he wouldn't. But under that narrow definition Adolf Hitler and Mugabe would qualify as statesmen! I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding the concept of statesmanship here. I am following the definition. Look it up. Well what's your source? My view of what a statesman is pretty much matches the OED's definition. There's absolutely no need to be a head of state, or even have any foreign influence. (If the link doesn't work the OED defines a statesman as someone who takes a leading part in the affairs of a state or is a skilled, experienced and respected politician.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 And even more condescending is the claim I've seen that Sturgeon, Salmond (even Davidson) are good enough to lead UK parties. The implication is that Scotland is a wee jokey northern outpost, and its competent politicians should really have their talents realised by playing a part in the big leagues, not the pretendy parliament in the sticks - sorry, the "powerhouse parliament" in charge of road signs. To be fair, you can hardly blame some for having that view when the Labour Party saw Holyrood as second best and the 'big beasts' of Labour (Sarwar, Curran etc) high-tailed it to Westminster as soon as they could. Just look at the decline in quality of Scottish Labour leadership over the last 20 years that has led to Kezia Dugdale. Same argument for the Lib Dems. Willie Rennie is the punchline of a joke. But while I think Salmond is mocked, there is a grudging admiration for him as an effective politician. Sturgeon really is rated. Davidson, on the other hand, gets more credit down south than she deserves. She's not put under the same pressure as her party colleagues down south. Up here she gets a relatively easy ride. When she's put under pressure she crumbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 But under that narrow definition Adolf Hitler and Mugabe would qualify as statesmen! I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding the concept of statesmanship here. Well what's your source? My view of what a statesman is pretty much matches the OED's definition. There's absolutely no need to be a head of state, or even have any foreign influence. (If the link doesn't work the OED defines a statesman as someone who takes a leading part in the affairs of a state or is a skilled, experienced and respected politician.) Hitler was clearly a statesman, I'm amazed you think otherwise. Mugabe too, you don't have to be a good person to be one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 No, to be a 'statesman' you have to have a profile and affect on international relations/the international stage. To be the head of a devolved government gives you no scope to do this. Some people who are not heads of state like Henry (war criminal) Kissinger or Dag Hammarskjold can also be considered statesmen, but definitely not any Scottish FM this side of independence. That's a somewhat less Maverick interpretation than your first attempt But unlikely to get you that dream job in lexicography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Vermin Supreme. The President that America truly deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Willie Rennie: https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/720912830652944384 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 The next Prime Minister, Michael Gove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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