Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

18 minutes ago, 'WellDel said:

Was working today so never seen or heard anything of the game, and can only go by the general opinions I'm seeing, and my overall feeling is just one of wtf?

We have 2 chances of lifting silverware each year, and that's the first one gone already, and with a whimper at that.

After scraping through the group stage, I'd have thought Alexander would show the appropriate respect to the 'competition proper'. Alas he's seen fit to omit some of our better performers, and instead give a centre half his debut, a full back who's only just rejoined the first team squad after a lengthy illness a start when he'd obviously be nowhere near match sharp, and Stevie fucking Lawless a jersey. If that lineup wasn't a boot to the baws for the travelling support when they saw it at 2pm, god knows what would be. (apart from the hapless performance that inevitably followed).

It's obviously very early days. The seasons just started and there are still a couple of weeks of the window to go, but.... when Alexander first came in I felt it was a bit of a coup, starting to wonder with some of his questionable decisions though whether he just is a fucking coo. 

To Devils Advocate that, look at the fall out of the St Johnstone game on Motherwell Twitter...you've had a certain section of fans wanting SOD dropped to the point that they were even taking shots at him while he was wearing a Scotland shirt, folk were wanting Ojala in the team the second he signed and Stevie Lawless?...nah, sorry I have nothing.

Was it a good idea to just think "f**k it...it's the league cup, it's Dundee, I've a bunch of players who need minutes...what's the worst that can happen if I just chuck them all in?"

On the upside, Alexander looked particularly grouchy in his post-match interview and it's fair to say there are a few players that he's given a very decent run in the team to...so I wonder if this "kick in the nuts" might speed things along a bit in terms of recruitment. In and Out.

Edited August 14, 2021 by capt_oats

['WellDel]

2 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

To Devils Advocate that, look at the fall out of the St Johnstone game on Motherwell Twitter...you've had a certain section of fans wanting SOD dropped to the point that they were even taking shots at him while he was wearing a Scotland shirt, folk were wanting Ojala in the team the second he signed and Stevie Lawless?...nah, sorry I have nothing.

Was it a good idea to just think "f**k it...it's the league cup, it's Dundee, I've a bunch of players who need minutes...what's the worst that can happen?"

On the upside, Alexander looked particularly grouchy in his post-match interview and it's fair to say there are a few players that he's given a very decent run in the team to...so I wonder if this "kick in the nuts" might speed things along a bit in terms of recruitment. In and Out.

Aye, I mean that's why I went with the 'early days' etc caveat, as it is exactly that. 

No doubt SOD has been off the boil and needs a rest, and I'll freely admit to being one of his critics lately, but when todays competition constituted 50% of our silverware chances, was it really the right time to swap in a guy who's not kicked a competitive ball this calendar year?

Likewise, I've also been one of those advocating the immediate inclusion of Ojala. But when you combine those two with the inclusion of Lawless, who's disappointed on most showings and Shields who also lacks minutes, at the expense of Watt who dug us out last week, then it seems far too much all at once considering 1 of only 2 shots at glory was at stake.

Not listened to his post match soundbites yet or how he spins it, but imo todays exit is solely on the gaffer.

[Allroy for Prez]

My backs really up after that today. 
Losing 1-0 away from home to team we’ve won the last 9 out of 10 against might not seem like such a big deal but our stop/start, er, start to the season and looking a mile off the pace today is setting alarm bells off everywhere.

Going with a hugely under strength team and bedding in long term absentees whilst the real fitba has already started is massively risky and effectively potentially just writing off the start of the season  is not something I can get on board with.
 

4 points from the next 2 games and at least a couple of additions are needed. We won’t win (m)any games with Lamie, Lawless and McGuire starting every week.

Big question mark over Alexander even at this early stage for me m afraid.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Allroy for Prez

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Costanza said:

We knocked you out at the same stage last season on the way to winning the trophy. Calum Hendry even scored.

Michael O'Halloran had a stormer and Callum Hendry scored a goal.

[Londonwell]

Don’t usually post on the games cause by the time I’m on the forum afterwards, someone has usually already articulated far better than I could the rights/wrongs etc. of what we’ve just seen.

However, couldn’t not comment tonight, because wow we were poor! Individually and collectively woeful. Early days of course for Ojala and Shields but Ojala in particular didn’t look comfortable all afternoon against a limited threat from Dundee. How Shields didn’t bury his chance in the first half I’ll never know, actually burst out laughing when he rattled it off the bar. 

The number of individual errors and just the inability to do the very basics of football was alarming. But that wasn’t what had me close to a heads gone this afternoon, what really stuck out to me was that we looked a really poorly coached side. Set piece routines abysmal, a strange goal kick routine of passing short and then the defender just launching it from our box in whatever direction he was facing. If we’re going to do that just let Kelly punt it as he’s a better passer than either of our CB’s.

This is the first time under Alexander that I’ve had real doubts about his ability as a manager. He was booed off as he made his way up the tunnel, while certain players were clapped off. Make of that what you will. Hopefully today acts as a wake up call but how many of those do we need? 

[Desp]

Not a clue what Woolery is meant to be offering here. 

Absolute dug meat and will not do. 

[Allroy for Prez]

Just now, Desp said:

Not a clue what Woolery is meant to be offering here. 

Absolute dug meat and will not do. 

On a 3 year deal too! 

[ZX1886]

Not a clue what Woolery is meant to be offering here. 
Absolute dug meat and will not do. 

He looked alright against the lower league clubs in the cup, missed the 1v1 against hibs and then had a very poor first touch whenever the ball came to him today. For me the formation with the players we’ve got is the main issue.

Should add: I also thought Hylton and Seedorf were world beaters after they ran rings around QOS and Morton and we all know how they turned out...

[Ludo*1]

Alexander is quite the angry touchline manager. Few times it'd just go for a throw and he'd be desperate to have a row with one of our players or indeed just scream at one of yours.

Adam and Byrne were noticeable wee screaming sessions he had. Adam told him to f**k off (judging by his body language) whilst Byrne sat in shock and done a double take.

[capt_oats]

1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said:

Alexander is quite the angry touchline manager. Few times it'd just go for a throw and he'd be desperate to have a row with one of our players or indeed just scream at one of yours.

Adam and Byrne were noticeable wee screaming sessions he had. Adam told him to f**k off (judging by his body language) whilst Byrne sat in shock and done a double take.

I mean, he managed to get himself sent off against Hibs in injury time of a game we comfortably won 2-0 so...aye! 

['WellDel]

29 minutes ago, Desp said:

Not a clue what Woolery is meant to be offering here. 

Absolute dug meat and will not do. 

Saw a puff piece where Woolery was saying Alexander liked and signed him because every time he played against his Salford side, he had his fullback on toast. 

Looking so far like that's a very bad indictment on whoever his full back was,  rather than a glowing indictment of Woolery's ability.

His 1v1 against Hibs, his poor ball when he could easily have played KVV, (I think) in against St Johnstone. His many mis-controls and misplaced passes. 

I'll again caveat with the early days stuff, but, It's as if pace is all he has, and league one down south, like the rest of them is vastly overrated. 

[welldaft]

I have seen the quote from Alexander saying (assuming it to be true) the players need the fans support, he needs the fans support. “It is all not one way”.

I was glad we appointed Alexander and that was proven to b the correct decision. We stayed up and Wrights Killie went down. We amassed more points than anyone outside the Old Firm since he was appointed.

Yet today was abysmal. One way. I mean WTF. 700+ fans travelled to Dundee today expecting a little bit of effort and purpose. Against Hibs we lost but most fans were happy with effort and promising signs. 

This is on the Manager. If players cannot b arsed to actually try to win a game then that is down to the Manager. He is there to Gee them up. To get them motivated. To have them organised. To make sure we don’t repeat the same mistakes game after game. 

I hope there is a master plan behind this ineptitude. Otherwise he should not bother looking for a permanent home in Scotland.

We need to start to see visible signs of improvement. We need to get another 3 or 4 1st team players. The midfield is like the Marie Celeste. Tactics which involve any team including Primary 3 teams crossing at will is abysmal. Dundee had 382 corners. Who would have guessed one might lead to a goal. 

Even this early on he is on a sticky wicket

 

[capt_oats]

25 minutes ago, ZX1886 said:

He looked alright against the lower league clubs in the cup, missed the 1v1 against hibs and then had a very poor first touch whenever the ball came to him today. For me the formation with the players we’ve got is the main issue.

Should add: I also thought Hylton and Seedorf were world beaters after they ran rings around QOS and Morton and we all know how they turned out...

The thing with Woolery that's kind of notable is that he's the one of the few players who doesn't seem to have been rotated in or out.

He's started 6 of the 7 games we've played so far and played the full 90 in 5 (and 84' in the other).

Barry Maguire's another in so much as he's started all 7 although that really feels like it's because we've not had any other options for his position.

As an aside, and I'm not pining for him to be brought back in, I notice Robbie Crawford has had his arse firmly parked on the bench since Airdrie.

Edited August 14, 2021 by capt_oats

['WellDel]

10 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

As an aside, and I'm not pining for him to be brought back in, I notice Robbie Crawford has had his arse firmly parked on the bench since Airdrie.

If we could somehow magically move him out before the window closes, I'd be delighted to see his arse parked on the bench AT Airdrie. 

At very, very best league 1 is his level (and that's being generous).

[Kapowzer]

Ask yourself this, forgetting Jan to May, the 7 competitive games this season, how much have you been entertained and felt we had the upper hand/were the better team? Bear in mind, 4 against lower and much lower league opposition:

Annan -Whipping boys, should have been more dominant

Airdrie - No comment

QotS - Least said about the first half the better

Queens Park - They pretty much looked like the premier team

Hibs - Good side and we competed but mix of bad luck and stupid mistakes

St Johnstone - Double cup winners are no mugs, they had more of the game but we had better chances

Dundee - By all accounts woeful

 

Said this before, the points haul since his arrival is impressive but we robbed about 12 of those points and it was a turgid war of attrition for another 12 or so. Many have defended the purchases or contract extensions as squad fillers as acceptable as they are just that. I just think if you aspire to better yourself you can't just repeat what you've done before and expect a change.

In his defence, starting Ojala got criticism, if not today when? Next week against Livvy on the only plastic pitch in the league?

Midfield has been woeful despite the best efforts of Campbell for 18 months. Getting fed up of seeing us get bossed persevering with 4-3-3, these stupid goal kicks putting us on undue pressure and a significant part of the wage budget on mediocrity.

[Ludo*1]

To be fair, it looks like shite football is a trademark of Alexander. The type that will get results but the fans will hate the whole period and then miss him when he's gone.

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, Gary Neville mentioned how his one big regret of last season was punting Alexander because he didn't enjoy the football.

As much as you were horrendous yesterday, if you were just getting minutes in the legs for some, and not taking it too seriously (rightly or wrongly) then over the score there's not too much to worry about except a lack of excitement.

Despite being fucking awful, you still created 2 chances (one through massive slice of fortune admittedly) which on another day could have been one of those days of absolute daylight robbery. That sort of something out of nothing usually clicks enough over the course of a season to see teams safe. 

Add in the potential brilliance of Van Veen and Liam Kelly and it's not all doom and gloom.

[No_Problemo]

33 minutes ago, 'WellDel said:

If we could somehow magically move him out before the window closes, I'd be delighted to see his arse parked on the bench AT Airdrie. 

At very, very best league 1 is his level (and that's being generous).

League one being his level is clearly nonsense. We’ll have him back - cheers! 

['WellDel]

5 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

League one being his level is clearly nonsense. We’ll have him back - cheers! 

Take him, please. Keep up the form you've started with and league 1 will be the level soon enough. 

[No_Problemo]

1 minute ago, 'WellDel said:

Take him, please. Keep up the form you've started with and league 1 will be the level soon enough. 

With one point from six, the exact same as Motherwell - without the getting laughably pumped by Airdrie in the league cup part too. 

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said:

To be fair, it looks like shite football is a trademark of Alexander. The type that will get results but the fans will hate the whole period and then miss him when he's gone.

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, Gary Neville mentioned how his one big regret of last season was punting Alexander because he didn't enjoy the football.

As much as you were horrendous yesterday, if you were just getting minutes in the legs for some, and not taking it too seriously (rightly or wrongly) then over the score there's not too much to worry about except a lack of excitement.

Despite being fucking awful, you still created 2 chances (one through massive slice of fortune admittedly) which on another day could have been one of those days of absolute daylight robbery. That sort of something out of nothing usually clicks enough over the course of a season to see teams safe. 

Add in the potential brilliance of Van Veen and Liam Kelly and it's not all doom and gloom.

Aye, from my POV I'm not having a heads gone over it it just feels like it's another opportunity to progress in the cup chucked (given our record against Dundee) and the kicker is that it seems to have been wilful as a result of having a bit too much faith in the "squad" to get a job done and a feeling that we've been using the LC as a means to rotate the squad. In his post-match Alexander even refers to the group games as "pre-season", which I suppose it technically is but it's a bit of a tell.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a case of Alexander not taking it "seriously", or not being bothered about winning he absolutely would have as I'd imagine he's got "League Cup Run" in his list of KPI's from the board.

Last season under Robinson we were 1-0 up against St Johnstone at the same stage and chucked that with 2 mistakes, the season before we were put out at the same stage by a Hearts side who were relegated with 8 games to go and we didn't lose to in the league.

It really is just another "kick in the nuts".

We're clearly still in the market for players and the likes of Kelly, Van Veen and Slattery have all at the very least shown the potential of being good signings so I'm not going to get bent out of shape about our transfer business at the moment. In fact if it could be sped up a bit that would be absolutely smashing thank you very much.

As an interesting factoid, of the starting XI today 6 were at the club when Alexander was appointed and it's difficult to imagine he had much to do with Lawleff being brought in given he arrived inside a week while Alexander was still getting his feet under the desk.

Edited August 15, 2021 by capt_oats