Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[dezz]

Based on SOD’s international career, if Mugabi was Scottish he’d have about 50 caps.

[Desp]

I've made my feelings on the manager pretty clear. I agree with what @thisGRAEME says - the players are better than what the managers tactics are allowing them to be. 

What I don't understand, and will never understand, is why Motherwell fans will boo and shout abuse at certain players during the game. Why do it? What is wrong in their own life that they think shouting abuse at an individual trying to their job, whether it's good or bad, is acceptable? 

For those that do it, how on earth do you think booing a player, causing his confidence to go through the floor during a game, is going to help Motherwell turn things around? Does anyone come up and scream in your face when you're having a bad day at work? Do you pelt abuse at the boy in Asda for giving you the wrong change?

All of it is counter productive. If you're not happy with the performance/result? Boo yer nut off at half time and/or full time. It's 2022, there's plenty of ways to get your feelings across to the football club if you're not happy. Screaming abuse at someone, in the team you fucking support, for not meeting a standard is the behaviour of a deeply sad and angry individual. 

The stuff being aimed towards SOD yesterday was a disgrace. There was some c**t behind me in the East Stand yesterday who booed him when he received a pass yesterday. Fucking behave yourself. SOD's performances haven't been good enough for Motherwell. That's clear, and I'm sure even the player himself will tell you that. But what's the plan here? Try and bully him out the door? A lovely thought that. 

The players are already not happy during the week at their work. It appears they are being told to try and not lose a game, as opposed to trying to win it. If someone is able to tell me how abusing your own players is going to get them to improve their performances, I'm all ears.

[Al B]

9 minutes ago, Desp said:

I've made my feelings on the manager pretty clear. I agree with what @thisGRAEME says - the players are better than what the managers tactics are allowing them to be. 

What I don't understand, and will never understand, is why Motherwell fans will boo and shout abuse at certain players during the game. Why do it? What is wrong in their own life that they think shouting abuse at an individual trying to their job, whether it's good or bad, is acceptable? 

For those that do it, how on earth do you think booing a player, causing his confidence to go through the floor during a game, is going to help Motherwell turn things around? Does anyone come up and scream in your face when you're having a bad day at work? Do you pelt abuse at the boy in Asda for giving you the wrong change?

All of it is counter productive. If you're not happy with the performance/result? Boo yer nut off at half time and/or full time. It's 2022, there's plenty of ways to get your feelings across to the football club if you're not happy. Screaming abuse at someone, in the team you fucking support, for not meeting a standard is the behaviour of a deeply sad and angry individual. 

The stuff being aimed towards SOD yesterday was a disgrace. There was some c**t behind me in the East Stand yesterday who booed him when he received a pass yesterday. Fucking behave yourself. SOD's performances haven't been good enough for Motherwell. That's clear, and I'm sure even the player himself will tell you that. But what's the plan here? Try and bully him out the door? A lovely thought that. 

The players are already not happy during the week at their work. It appears they are being told to try and not lose a game, as opposed to trying to win it. If someone is able to tell me how abusing your own players is going to get them to improve their performances, I'm all ears.

[ropy]

Does Lamie’s performance yesterday demonstrate that players who sign a PCA can still contribute to their current team.  We had the then Premiership top scorer contracted for another six months and we let him go.  Other than a two week huff surely Watt would have made us a better team in the second half of the season.

Edited March 6, 2022 by ropy

[Handsome_Devil]

Depends on the personality and attitude of the player - given Watt's previous slackness at some other clubs I don't think it's unfair GA doubted him.

I still think the problem is less we let him go but we made no attempt to replace his goals and then adapted the approach we have to games.

['WellDel]

On the booing, as a whole and aimed at the whole team/performance, when things are going as they are it's very much merited and should be expected by them, as the supporters are being short changed in the entertainment department. I've already stated that I've been vocal of my displeasure and make no apologies for it.

Aimed, vitriolic attacks on individual players is a whole other thing though, especially at places like Fir Park where the extremely close proximity means they can hear every single word. I now sit in the Cooper but many years ago when I was still in the East, my position was only a couple of rows from the front. Stevie Kirk was having one of his less productive days and a guy a couple of rows behind me shouted something ott. He must have thought it was me, as Big Stevie turned and fixed me with a stare that was more hurt than anger. I felt mortified at the time that he thought it was me, but it's stuck with me ever since and as @Desp points out puts the human factor to the forefront.

They're just guys out there doing their job, and currently being hampered in their actions by ridiculous management tactics and decisions. Hurling personal insults won't help. Collective dissent is one thing, but some shouts from grown men is beyond embarrassing, but more importantly beyond the pale. 

[capt_oats]

19 hours ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

The problem is we are conceding first all the time and they are really sloppy goals. We are not built to chase games.

Alexander's best games are when we take the lead and then shut down the opposition by denying them easy passes into midfield and pushing them back.

We have had a few come from behind points this year. Today, Aberdeen, St Mirren but we haven't got a lead this year in the league.

100%

Since the winter break we've conceded the first goal in 11 of our 12 games in all competitions. The one we didn't we drew 0-0 with Hibs. We've won 2 of those 12 and drawn 5.

Contrast that with the fixtures before the break. 25 games played we scored first in 13 (52%) of which we won 10 (1 draw - St Mirren and lost 2 - Hibs and Rangers).

So in games where we had scored first we've gone on to win in 76.9% of them and not lost in 84.6%.

Of the games where we conceded the first goal up to the break we won 2 drew 3 and lost 7.

As @Busta Nut says on the other page Alexander's going nowhere so folk getting bent out of shape and shouty in the clubs mentions are going to be disappointed but equally I doubt anyone's naive enough to think that no league wins in 10 isn't going to cause frustration - especially given the situation we found ourselves in at the winter break.

Really it's up to Alexander to fix that.

As a side bar to that, to put things in a bit of context our points tally at the moment is comparable with most recent seasons after 30 games save the 3rd place in 19/20 and going back further McCall's 3rd and 2nd places (which stands to reason):

20/21 (Robinson/Alexander) - 29 pts (-7 pts) - finished 8th place
19/20 (Robinson) - 46 pts (+10 pts) - finished 3rd*
18/19 (Robinson) - 40 pts (+4 pts) - finished 8th
17/18 (Robinson) - 36 pts (+/- 0) - finished 7th
16/17 (McGhee/Robinson) - 28 pts (-8 pts) - finished 9th
15/16 (Baraclough/McGhee) - 41 pts (+5 pts) - finished 5th
14/15 (McCall/Baraclough) - 25 pts (-10 pts) - finished 11th
13/14 (McCall) - 57 pts - (+21 pts) - finished 2nd
12/13 (McCall) - 47 pts - (+11 pts) - finsihed 2nd
11/12 (McCall) - 54 pts - (+19 pts)  - finished 3rd
10/11 (Brown/McCall) 37 pts - (+1 point) - finished 6th

Clearly it's wild that as things stand we're still only a point off 4th but equally I doubt that sitting on 36 points after 30 games is far off where we'd expect to be on a purely numbers basis.

Edited March 6, 2022 by capt_oats

[Kapowzer]

Watt was agitating as were the Arabs from the very start.

Watt was going to see I guess at least a +£1,500 jump to his salary for 6 months and Dundee United needed him him to solve their plateauing league position (the irony) and solve their striking issues.

Grezza and to a lesser degree Flao admitted as much and also conveyed that it was felt the dummy would come out the pram, to be fair for £40k anyone here would try and move on from their employer.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Kapowzer

[ropy]

3 hours ago, Kapowzer said:

Watt was agitating as were the Arabs from the very start.

Watt was going to see I guess at least a +£1,500 jump to his salary for 6 months and Dundee United needed him him to solve their plateauing league position (the irony) and solve their striking issues.

Grezza and to a lesser degree Flao admitted as much and also conveyed that it was felt the dummy would come out the pram, to be fair for £40k anyone would here would try and move on from their employer.

I would expect the pram to be emptied but after a couple of weeks he would be back on it.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

This is all hypothetical because there's zero chance we're punting Alexander unless we literally lose every other game this season- and probably the first few of the next one too- but I'm not even sure what I want to happen tbh. By and large his signings have been pretty decent IMO, he just seems loathe to actually use most of them.  In that sense, is it worth giving him another window to spend money in the hope that he actually has an idea what to do with it? 

I'm not sure where I read it but the parallels to Jim Gannon are starting to build up. Not sure who our Craig Brown is, though.

[Desp]

3 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

This is all hypothetical because there's zero chance we're punting Alexander unless we literally lose every other game this season- and probably the first few of the next one too- but I'm not even sure what I want to happen tbh. By and large his signings have been pretty decent IMO, he just seems loathe to actually use most of them.  In that sense, is it worth giving him another window to spend money in the hope that he actually has an idea what to do with it? 

I'm not sure where I read it but the parallels to Jim Gannon are starting to build up. Not sure who our Craig Brown is, though.

Can you imagine? 

[Handsome_Devil]

10 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

This is all hypothetical because there's zero chance we're punting Alexander unless we literally lose every other game this season- and probably the first few of the next one too- but I'm not even sure what I want to happen tbh. By and large his signings have been pretty decent IMO, he just seems loathe to actually use most of them.  In that sense, is it worth giving him another window to spend money in the hope that he actually has an idea what to do with it? 

I'm not sure where I read it but the parallels to Jim Gannon are starting to build up. Not sure who our Craig Brown is, though.

Alexander has shown he can organise and motivate, and his recruitment (as much as he's responsible for it) has been, overall, fine. So the potential for him to be an okay manager is definitely there.

If he was put on the carpet by the board this week or was willing to meet the players halfway for some tweaks following a full and frank exchange of views, you could definitely imagine him turning things round.

But on the basis his time with us is following basically the same pattern virtually all his previous clubs reported, a much more likely scenario is he's too stubborn to every work on his flaws.

We won't bin him now but limp on until it gets really untenable in September. I was at a loss as to why we extended his deal when we did at the time given the likelihood of history repeating itself.

[ropy]

I’ve said before but I am taking this as a transition year, the benefits will be that we start next season with a ‘settled’ squad and hit the road running.  That is the theory.  Looks like we will rip up the League Cup South Group B rather than the Europa Conference League..

[ropy]

Is it time to talk about the throw ins?

Somebody stands inside the six yard box but we don’t throw it that far.

is the tactic for the defender to clear it to the corner of the box?  We have no-one stationed there.

One out of 10 we throw it short and take a midfielder by surprise who, if they manage to control it,  plays it back to the half way line.

Could we do better?

[Busta Nut]

The corner thing does not bother me in the slightest, the throw ins though are mad, utter terrible.

The whole style is rotten and that's what is unacceptable. As has been see from the previous figures @capt_oats posting we are up and down. That's fine.

Having no intention of being entertaining in the slightest is what people are ragin' at.

[well fan for life]

12 minutes ago, ropy said:

Is it time to talk about the throw ins?

Somebody stands inside the six yard box but we don’t throw it that far.

is the tactic for the defender to clear it to the corner of the box?  We have no-one stationed there.

One out of 10 we throw it short and take a midfielder by surprise who, if they manage to control it,  plays it back to the half way line.

Could we do better?

I used to think our short corners when the opposition had rumbled it were the worst thing. But those long throw ins are so, so, so much worse.

[Kapowzer]

Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Wednesday had it telegraphed that the current style wasn't working, to continue it yesterday was crazy. O'Hara is the only one who has earned a place in that midfield recently but Grezza doggedly stuck to the other two despite little to justify it. So the plan seemed to be keeping two underperformers in but bypass them.

In the past doggedly sticking to formations or tactics cost McCall and Robinson their jobs. Losing the players cost Gannon, Barraclough and McGhee. Of course you can throw in poor recruitment into that mix too but it tends to fall a bit into both, too much reliance on an individual or not filling gaps in quality will make you lopsided and/or easy to exploit.

I did wonder if at Ibrox last week was akin to Gannon going "f**k it" and putting all the kids on.

You get a reset by looking at the situation from a distance, taking emotion and ego out of it and making sensible changes and build on that. Dogmatically sticking to plans, holding grudges and being stubborn does not lead anywhere.

When we play the ball on the deck we're not too bad. Not playing our best players, head tennis, clipped balls into the "D" and looping throw ins for 70 minutes are not the solution and never will be. Not in this league.

For all those wanting him out, you're going to have to hope that from now till May he starts getting results or those interested only look at his 2021 calendar year. Because a club approaching us to speak to him is the only way he's leaving.

[Phillips455]

Looking at the situation, the problems are obvious as stated many times. The issue is the lack of solutions bring implemented which is either extremely frustrating part.

 

I don't think I have been this frustrated doing a manager in all my life (i'm only 26 so not that long). The solutions are there, will to be used but he's leaving them out or not putting them on until the last 10. Why did we bring in tierany if we don't even utilise him?

Edited March 6, 2022 by Phillips455

[AnderooMFC]

Just watched the Dundee game there. Might be the only one, but I thought it was an improvement on Wednesday at least. Our problem seems to be one of the basics of playground football; awareness. Balls are played overhead to where they think KVV/Efford should be. Three players go to get the ball and pass into space where one of the other two should be. O'Donnell tries to pass as if he's not aware where McMullan is. GA needs to practice on getting them to look before hitting it.

I'm not firmly in the Alexander-out camp yet. It's been said here before how some players have improved, and the ones he's brought in seem okish for our normal standards. If he can stop the head tennis and idiotic thrown-ins then I'd be happier with his 'style'.

& as far as the conversation about booing, I hope someone's explained to O'Hara/Slattery and Goss/Tierney that it wasn't them being booed.

[AmericanFan]

6 hours ago, ropy said:

I’ve said before but I am taking this as a transition year, the benefits will be that we start next season with a ‘settled’ squad and hit the road running.  That is the theory.  Looks like we will rip up the League Cup South Group B rather than the Europa Conference League..

Not so sure. You end the pre-split with the worst team in the league, a floundering St. Mirren squad and a Livingston squad that isn't going to be giving anyone the fear (that how you say it?).

You may have been pish the last 6 weeks and you're not going to take anyone to the woodshed, but it's not like you're ending with the OF and Hearts.