Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Allroy for Prez]

24 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

So you say that today based on playing at Ibrox?

Of course not. 

The whole season so far, the squad, the trajectory, the inexperience in the dugout, everything up to now. 

[Handsome_Devil]

15 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

The argument for the pitch was we were spending so much ever close season it would have a payback pretty soon rather than being a black hole. It was the Scottish government loan that was used I don’t know if that had any stipulations attached.

Evident that the vast majority if not all of the Conference League money and higher than budgeted league finish prize money must have been used to pay off GA and Lucketti.

But interesting to see all this chat off the back of a lacklustre display at the home of the team who we haven’t beaten in 20 years when Lennon Miller has been introduced purely for experience.

Last season was marked by the usual two teams sprinting away, Hearts by far the third best and the best being a piecemeal affair. I haven’t seen much of a different this season. 9 teams will limp to the split.

Speculating to accumulate in Scotland very rarely works out well. You can debate where we should have spent it but sticking our government 2m in infrastructure rather than the short-term first XI was almost certainly the right move.

As for comments based on tonight, yes the game on now isnt a season-definer but each passing game makes the pattern clearer. Our trouble is not we're shite and get beat, we're ok and never win - which is nailed on relegation.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Handsome_Devil

[18May1991]

6 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said:

Of course not. 

The whole season so far, the squad, the trajectory, the inexperience in the dugout, everything up to now. 

And the fact that we are statistically the worst team this calendar year? 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

7 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

Last season was marked by the usual two teams sprinting away, Hearts by far the third best and the best being a piecemeal affair. I haven’t seen much of a different this season. 9 teams will limp to the split.

I don't disagree with this but I think most of the anxiety stems from everybody else either having a more experienced manager and/or more scope to strengthen in January than we do.

[Kapowzer]

1 minute ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I don't disagree with this but I think most of the anxiety stems from everybody else either having a more experienced manager and/or more scope to strengthen in January than we do.

This team is an Alfred and Hartley away from being markedly different, both of whom were brought to the club in a Jan window.

The aim is identifying and attracting them in the next month.

I’m just not going to let a game at Ibrox be the catalyst for coming on here and professing doom.

I suspect all 9 teams will have a chance of top six before GW30.

['WellDel]

 

At work and just switched my phone on at my break to find the scoreline exactly as I'd have expected it. A pumping in Glasgow is never a result you would use as a marker of where we're at, but from the little I've read it's yet again the manner in which we're conceding that is the cause for concern. A fragile and soft as shite defence, playing in front of last seasons POTY who seems to have inexplicably swapped hands with Craig Samson isn’t the best base to build from.

We undoubtedly need a cutting edge up front, but shoring up at the back and Kelly re-finding some form are crucial to give us a foundation to work from. Personally wouldn't be averse to giving Oxborough a chance and see how he gets on. 

[thisGRAEME]

16 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

This team is an Alfred and Hartley away from being markedly different, both of whom were brought to the club in a Jan window.

The aim is identifying and attracting them in the next month.

I’m just not going to let a game at Ibrox be the catalyst for coming on here and professing doom.

I suspect all 9 teams will have a chance of top six before GW30.

I disagree tbh. I'm increasingly of the opinion that this year its our turn.

Whether we bring in a big b*****d centre half, and if it in some way takes a month to do so, we're already fucked.

Can't score, can't defend and a powderpuff midfield. The decisions to see guys like O'Hara, Woolery or Roberts, guys who at the very minimum competed in games, and see them replaced with complete junk like Morris has left us in a massive fucking hole.

Our POTY (when Penney presumably departs) is a stick on to be Paul McGinn and not a slight on him, but that is very very no bueno.

[shivute]

It's been clear all season that we can't trust any of our centre halves. The sooner January 1 comes and we can try and get replacements in the better.  

I'm hopeful that since Blaney has been training he's ready to come in and start v livi

[welldaft]

Will not panic until I see where we are at the end of January. We have 5 winnable games inc Arbroath in the cup. 6 if the St Mirren home game is rescheduled during January.

We have had a very tough run. The two recent games that were most winnable Killie and St J at least we did not lose either of them. For such a shite defence to have a -5 goal difference which includes 4 Old Firm games is almost acceptable. 

But we do need a win somewhere to gain some momentum. That and a few new recruits may just be the tonic we need. 

I like others wonder if it is time to give the back up Goalie a chance. Unlikely since Kelly is captain and is somehow in the Scotland squad. But based on form it would be fair imho. 

[ZX1886]

36 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

This team is an Alfred and Hartley away from being markedly different, both of whom were brought to the club in a Jan window.

We knew in the summer that a central defender was badly needed. Why it was neglected then is completely beyond me.
 

It was / is absolutely criminal that replacements have yet to be found for both Lamie and Sol. 

[eliphas]

46 minutes ago, 18May1991 said:

And the fact that we are statistically the worst team this calendar year? 

Well I guess we saw what happened when we were 3rd best statistically in 2021....don't mind me as I grasp for straws....

Tonight doesn't really change my views to be honest. I thought we would lose heavily and we did. 

All about January. Huge month.

As a slight aside, nice to see Miller and Ross get minutes 

Edited December 28, 2022 by eliphas

[Kapowzer]

19 minutes ago, ZX1886 said:

We knew in the summer that a central defender was badly needed. Why it was neglected then is completely beyond me.

It was / is absolutely criminal that replacements have yet to be found for both Lamie and Sol. 

I advocated for Lamie getting a new contract and his agent being well within his rights to ask for extra money considering his goals secured a higher finish and Europe but I always felt he was the minimum standard for a centre half in our team. With two others required ideally with a Lamie as a useful backup, not as dead cert on the team sheet behind Kelly which is the case at present.

A central defender was was needed before Ojala went and when he did you'd have a very good case for 2 before the window closed.

@capt_oats oversight, I just remember the piano/Man United piss take.

[Marinello]

Aware it may sound like grasping at straws but having taken in the Livi/St Mirren game tonight we shouldn't have much to fear from Livi on Monday.

Livi very limited in midfield and pretty ponderous at the back.

 

Will be without red carded Pittman who is their ' go to guy' in midfield. Add to this Holt's redcard may be upheld from Saturday and Nouble's no show for last 2 games.

Biggest threat is their number 7 ( Moyo) who carries the ball well and puts in a shift.

 

Pitch bye the way is hellish ( no surprise) and only serves to help grafters not playmakers.

 

Will be close but a draw is certainly within our reach.

[Phillips455]

4 minutes ago, Marinello said:

Aware it may sound like grasping at straws but having taken in the Livi/St Mirren game tonight we shouldn't have much to fear from Livi on Monday.

Livi very limited in midfield and pretty ponderous at the back.

 

Will be without red carded Pittman who is their ' go to guy' in midfield. Add to this Holt's redcard may be upheld from Saturday and Nouble's no show for last 2 games.

Biggest threat is their number 7 ( Moyo) who carries the ball well and puts in a shift.

 

Pitch bye the way is hellish ( no surprise) and only serves to help grafters not playmakers.

 

Will be close but a draw is certainly within our reach.

The biggest threat is that Livingston will get a man sent off then thrash us 5-0. At least that's what the trends seem to thi k

[dezz]

Haven’t read through the last few pages (cos I’m about 9 pints deep), but quality-wise I genuinely think this isn’t anywhere near the worst Motherwell starting XI I’ve seen in my 25 years of going to games. 
Everything else though, f**k me! No depth, no bottle, no character. It’s got all the hallmarks of a ‘they’ll figure it out soon enough’ team, that ultimately go down with a whimper. I’d snap your hand off for 11th right now and take our chance in the playoffs. 
Unless we a #6 and at least 2, preferably 3, starting quality attackers in Jan, we’re gubbed. 

[eliphas]

9 hours ago, dezz said:

Haven’t read through the last few pages (cos I’m about 9 pints deep), but quality-wise I genuinely think this isn’t anywhere near the worst Motherwell starting XI I’ve seen in my 25 years of going to games. 
Everything else though, f**k me! No depth, no bottle, no character. It’s got all the hallmarks of a ‘they’ll figure it out soon enough’ team, that ultimately go down with a whimper. I’d snap your hand off for 11th right now and take our chance in the playoffs. 
Unless we a #6 and at least 2, preferably 3, starting quality attackers in Jan, we’re gubbed. 

A very accurate and solid take after 9 pints. Bravo. 

[Busta Nut]

Hey guys, I 'm just passing by on my "Liam Kelly is utter dugshite" bus.
Plenty of seats still. Hop on.

[eliphas]

Seats for Lamie, SOD and McGinn on the bus too hopefully. 

Kelly looks devoid of confidence to me now. Wonder how much a revolving defence and change of goalie coach hasnt helped. Seems to have impacted the Kelly we had last season for sure.

[capt_oats]

12 hours ago, dezz said:

Haven’t read through the last few pages (cos I’m about 9 pints deep), but quality-wise I genuinely think this isn’t anywhere near the worst Motherwell starting XI I’ve seen in my 25 years of going to games. 
Everything else though, f**k me! No depth, no bottle, no character. It’s got all the hallmarks of a ‘they’ll figure it out soon enough’ team, that ultimately go down with a whimper. I’d snap your hand off for 11th right now and take our chance in the playoffs. 
Unless we a #6 and at least 2, preferably 3, starting quality attackers in Jan, we’re gubbed. 

Aye.

This is nowhere near the worst Motherwell side but unless someone actually takes some sort of ownership of things then we're fucked. As it stands Hammell's had 18 league games in charge and his record is marginally better than the Jan - May 22 run that saw folk lose their minds over Alexander.

GA (Jan 22 - May 22) = P 18 W 3 D 6 L 9 Pts = 15

SH = P 18 W 5 D 3 L 10 Pts = 18

There are obviously mitigating circumstances with Hammell in so much as he was parachuted in 2 days before the season started, has a paper thin squad and we've a laundry list of injuries which have now apparently been compounded by illness.

That's...fine but the January window opens at the weekend so it's on Hammell/the club to do something about it. Even if it's short term fixes the window is open and the issues around the squad have been known for ages.

Without wanting to come wide have we actually seen any individual improvement in players under Hammell/Kerr in the same way we saw with say Cole, Watt or even Lamie's redemption arc under Alexander.

For avoidance of doubt that's not me arguing for GA, we were well shot in the end and his position was untenable but it does beg the question of what the f**k we're actually doing just now.

As @thisGRAEME said last night whether or not they were actually worth extending or not we lost the likes of O'Hara, Donnelly, Woolery, Roberts etc over the summer and simply didn't replace them. Quite possibly through choice because we wanted to reduce the size of the squad.

We've a centre forward who's on 11 goals in 22 games this season which is good but he's literally our only option for that position. We're asking players to play through injury and illness regularly. I mean, that was true with KVV last season as well when we were asking him to play with one functioning arm.

Incidentally this is a good point from Nick McPheat:

When we hit a slide with Robinson there was a general feeling that he was prepared to blow things up and make changes whether that was bringing Hastie back from Alloa, getting Gboly in and going 433 instead of Murderball or whatever.

Right now I don't get the same impression from Hammell. Like, clearly I've no idea what he's like in the dressing room or generally but his post-match script of doing good work in training and we need to defend better started getting old a while ago. I noticed he's modified the line to getting players in "as quickly as possible" now. So that's something.

Like others I don't think it's a given that we're down and a routine 3-0 at Ibrox doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know. It's definitely fixable but it absolutely needs someone to actually acknowledge the fucking problems and do something about them.

I mean, if we've spend the entire season up to now talking about not being "clinical" enough in the defensive third and our solution ends up as signing a boy from the LOI because he scored a worldie of a free kick against us in July then...f**k me.

Edited December 29, 2022 by capt_oats

[Handsome_Devil]

9 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Without wanting to come wide have we actually seen any individual improvement in players under Hammell/Kerr in the same way we saw with say Cole, Watt or even Lamie's redemption arc under Alexander.

For avoidance of doubt that's not me arguing for GA, we were well shot in the end and his position was untenable but it does beg the question of what the f**k we're actually doing just now.

Goss improved a lot, at least at first, but has tailed off.

Kelly, Lamie and Mugabi are visibly worse.

Rest are much the same.

Far from decisive as you say but not a great look either.