Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

41 minutes ago, eliphas said:

What's this all about?

 

[Londonwell]

49 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Blaney’s a left sided central back so I’m presuming he’s here as cover for Lamie.

Which really only reinforces the idea that Hammell is totally fine with Lamie as our first choice in that position.

Aye and in an ideal world I wouldn’t be fine with Lamie as our star defender either. Infact, personally, I think Lamie is absolutely gubbins.

However, I also feel like these are the cards Hammell has been dealt to a certain extent. There isn’t much there for him to change atm. January is a huge month for both him and us (the club). He’s got to get it right and it’s a big ask for an inexperienced manager. 

[Kapowzer]

7 hours ago, rowsdower said:

In the background flow is flipping tables and screaming at folk asking why he had to find out it was January from a Twitter w****r.

If it cheers anyone up, I just cut a chunk out of my finger and may need stitches, from sweeping. Which could be my second trip to a&e for a sweep related incident. 

What's that gonna cost you there? .... yer arm and leg?

 

..... I'll get ma coat

[rowsdower]

46 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

What's that gonna cost you there? .... yer arm and leg?

 

..... I'll get ma coat

Managed to avoid an expensive visit to a&e (about 100 to get seen, then God knows the cost of a band-aid, never mind stitches), so limbs intact for now. I did have to switch hands for endlessly scrolling Twitter for transfer news, but I'm adapting.

[Kapowzer]

I was one of the last on the bus for most of our sackings bar Mowgli, I'm afraid my time is up with Hammy and it feels like I'm in a minority. It's for the following reasons:

1./ As a defender being coached in defensive tactics, drills, shapes, cover and tactics for 20 years including 550 senior appearances, you do not put that shit out for 10 games in a row. (I've give him 3 hall passes for the OF).

2./ The issue a lot of the time has been mental fortitude, being streetwise and doing the minimum stuff coached at U10's ... all basics and all stuff that's done at Dalziel Park that he has control over.

3./ I don't buy he fully inherited a shitshow. While we limped over the line, we started this season with what 9/10 of our top starters last season? His issues stemmed from bad luck and injuries and not securing the right signatures in August.

4./ He had one month in post before the window closed, the black hole was leftback, his gig for 20 years and he (and probably Daws) delivered. We did our usual and looked at an old matchday programme from 4 years ago and did the "he'll do, what's he up to now?" approach. A centre half was needed in advance of Ojala walking and when that happened it was two, to get none was criminal. I'll repeat .... One bloody month, dossiers and spreadsheets compiled in advance of him taking the gig.

5./ We are not playing to our strengths/deficiencies and lining up accordingly. At the moment, f**k worrying about giving Hibs problems. How about stopping Kevin Nisbet look like Mbappe, taking the absolute piss in our box three times.

6./ KVV is a gallus bastart and has a zero fucks given attitude and a lack of respect to guys like Tierney. Shooting rather than passing when he should. When Louis arrived there was a change in his behaviour where he viewed him as an equal colleague rather than a silly wee boys beside him. Hammy hasn't battered that away.

7./ Read the riot act to any shitebags, Goss and Spittal prime candidates, we're officially in the shit now and while enough time to get out of it and a meh league from 4th to 12th we need the epiphany of our line in the sand moment. Tell Slattery to stay on his feet and ride challenges rather than going to ground and losing any momentum, also because the resulting free kick will be a clipped floater by Goss to be swatted away by capable central defenders.

 

For the next game he needs to look at what's gone wrong. I'd have the following players in the starting line up and reason why:

Kelly - No comment needed

McGinn - No issues with me, he's safe but that's it. He wasn't the best as right centre half in a back 4, in a back three I have to have hope

Lamie - Under extreme duress

Johnson - Let's see if he can have an impact like Hastie did upon his return from loan, granted not going to be among the goals to the same degree

SOD - He was a Scotland starter 18 months ago (merits of that on another thread) and we as a club have sapped his mojo. He is effective if played to his strengths which is a wingback with adequate cover behind him to protect his lack of pace. Match fitness in question

Penney - Milk him till he goes

Blaney - A Hail Mary why the f**k not

Cornelius - While having a few deficiencies he bleeds C&A and as a supporter is motivated more than the rest. Will put in 110% for Hammy

Slattery - Our only baller just a bit ancy at times, I suspect he needs to be made to feel "special"

Tierney - Wee fella has has a uphill battle his whole life and took it on. He has technique and gumption we lack

McKinstry - Same as Dean and the only natural winger we have

KvV - Because he's it, if we had an alternative I'd drop him for a game

 

-------------- Kelly ------------

---- McGinn - Lamie - Blaney ----

SOD/Johnson ----------- Penney

----- Slattery --- Cornelius -----

------ Tierney - McKinstry ------

------------- KvV -------------

 

Instructions: Dean you're the bulldog, Slatts box to box, Tierney and McKinstry you boys are young so you need to cover a lot of ground, Lamie screw the nut, Blaney postage stamp free kicks please, Kev don't be a dick.

Still no leaders though.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Kapowzer

[18May1991]

3 hours ago, Kapowzer said:

I was one of the last on the bus for most of our sackings bar Mowgli, I'm afraid my time is up with Hammy and it feels like I'm in a minority. It's for the following reasons:

1./ As a defender being coached in defensive tactics, drills, shapes, cover and tactics for 20 years including 550 senior appearances, you do not put that shit out for 10 games in a row. (I've give him 3 hall passes for the OF).

2./ The issue a lot of the time has been mental fortitude, being streetwise and doing the minimum stuff coached at U10's ... all basics and all stuff that's done at Dalziel Park that he has control over.

3./ I don't buy he fully inherited a shitshow. While we limped over the line, we started this season with what 9/10 of our top starters last season? His issues stemmed from bad luck and injuries and not securing the right signatures in August.

4./ He had one month in post before the window closed, the black hole was leftback, his gig for 20 years and he (and probably Daws) delivered. We did our usual and looked at an old matchday programme from 4 years ago and did the "he'll do, what's he up to now?" approach. A centre half was needed in advance of Ojala walking and when that happened it was two, to get none was criminal. I'll repeat .... One bloody month, dossiers and spreadsheets compiled in advance of him taking the gig.

5./ We are not playing to our strengths/deficiencies and lining up accordingly. At the moment, f**k worrying about giving Hibs problems. How about stopping Kevin Nisbet look like Mbappe, taking the absolute piss in our box three times.

6./ KVV is a gallus bastart and has a zero fucks given attitude and a lack of respect to guys like Tierney. Shooting rather than passing when he should. When Louis arrived there was a change in his behaviour where he viewed him as an equal colleague rather than a silly wee boys beside him. Hammy hasn't battered that away.

7./ Read the riot act to any shitebags, Goss and Spittal prime candidates, we're officially in the shit now and while enough time to get out of it and a meh league from 4th to 12th we need the epiphany of our line in the sand moment. Tell Slattery to stay on his feet and ride challenges rather than going to ground and losing any momentum, also because the resulting free kick will be a clipped floater by Goss to be swatted away by capable central defenders.

 

For the next game he needs to look at what's gone wrong. I'd have the following players in the starting line up and reason why:

Kelly - No comment needed

McGinn - No issues with me, he's safe but that's it. He wasn't the best as right centre half in a back 4, in a back three I have to have hope

Lamie - Under extreme duress

Johnson - Let's see if he can have an impact like Hastie did upon his return from loan, granted not going to be among the goals to the same degree

SOD - He was a Scotland starter 18 months ago (merits of that on another thread) and we as a club have sapped his mojo. He is effective if played to his strengths which is a wingback with adequate cover behind him to protect his lack of pace. Match fitness in question

Penney - Milk him till he goes

Blaney - A Hail Mary why the f**k not

Cornelius - While having a few deficiencies he bleeds C&A and as a supporter is motivated more than the rest. Will put in 110% for Hammy

Slattery - Our only baller just a bit ancy at times, I suspect he needs to be made to feel "special"

Tierney - Wee fella has has a uphill battle his whole life and took it on. He has technique and gumption we lack

McKinstry - Same as Dean and the only natural winger we have

KvV - Because he's it, if we had an alternative I'd drop him for a game

 

-------------- Kelly ------------

---- McGinn - Lamie - Blaney ----

SOD/Johnson ----------- Penney

----- Slattery --- Cornelius -----

------ Tierney - McKinstry ------

------------- KvV -------------

 

Instructions: Dean you're the bulldog, Slatts box to box, Tierney and McKinstry you boys are young so you need to cover a lot of ground, Lamie screw the nut, Blaney postage stamp free kicks please, Kev don't be a dick.

Still no leaders though.

I don’t disagree with any of that tbh. Hammell is getting an easy ride so far because he’s a club legend. I really hope it works out for him but he needs to start making difficult decisions. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Hammell isn't the answer but I think it's too late in the game to do anything other than back him in this window and part ways respectfully at the end of the season. 

[Casagolda]

2 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Hammell isn't the answer but I think it's too late in the game to do anything other than back him in this window and part ways respectfully at the end of the season. 

I’m not sure if he’s the answer long term but if we get rid now, you’re basically just repeating the same mistakes of the summer. 

They picked Hammell, now they have to back him. Give him what he needs to do the job. By the time we sack him and fanny about getting in a replacement, we’ll have wasted the window(again). 

And more to the point, to appoint who exactly? An ‘experienced’ manager that’ll make us difficult to beat- so back to the low risk, percentage hoofball everyone complained about all last season. I mean we’re in a relegation battle with Killie and Ross County, they both have experienced managers who had a full summer to plan for this season and they’re every bit as shit as we are(if not worse).

Mind a lot of folk wanted Tommy Wright this time a few years ago anaw? Like he was some sort of get out of relegation free card. That worked out well for Killie. 

Things aren’t great but it’s time for cool heads and not rash decisions. The recruitment drive will be well underway, give Hammell what he wants and let him get on with the job he was deemed the best person to do in the summer but this time, give him the tools to do it properly.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Casagolda

[Handsome_Devil]

Hammell was deemed the best person in summer as (almost) no bugger applied for a job which was blatantly a poisoned chalice at a terrible time.

Now there's been an autumn of managers getting emptied from England and we're at a much better stage in the cycle for someone to give us a lift.

I wouldn't sack him now for sure but he's looking alarmingly overwhelmed and out of his depth (with the million issues I won't bother relisting) to me. If we lose to County (or even draw) we still have time for a tactical rethink which we will lose within two-three weeks - yesterday I would have taken it, now I'm not so sure.

But either way, I don't think the logic of 'it's him or Simo, we need to lump it' from summer quite applies any more.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Handsome_Devil

[joewarkfanclub]

6 hours ago, Kapowzer said:

I was one of the last on the bus for most of our sackings bar Mowgli, I'm afraid my time is up with Hammy and it feels like I'm in a minority. It's for the following reasons:

1./ As a defender being coached in defensive tactics, drills, shapes, cover and tactics for 20 years including 550 senior appearances, you do not put that shit out for 10 games in a row. (I've give him 3 hall passes for the OF).

2./ The issue a lot of the time has been mental fortitude, being streetwise and doing the minimum stuff coached at U10's ... all basics and all stuff that's done at Dalziel Park that he has control over.

3./ I don't buy he fully inherited a shitshow. While we limped over the line, we started this season with what 9/10 of our top starters last season? His issues stemmed from bad luck and injuries and not securing the right signatures in August.

4./ He had one month in post before the window closed, the black hole was leftback, his gig for 20 years and he (and probably Daws) delivered. We did our usual and looked at an old matchday programme from 4 years ago and did the "he'll do, what's he up to now?" approach. A centre half was needed in advance of Ojala walking and when that happened it was two, to get none was criminal. I'll repeat .... One bloody month, dossiers and spreadsheets compiled in advance of him taking the gig.

5./ We are not playing to our strengths/deficiencies and lining up accordingly. At the moment, f**k worrying about giving Hibs problems. How about stopping Kevin Nisbet look like Mbappe, taking the absolute piss in our box three times.

6./ KVV is a gallus bastart and has a zero fucks given attitude and a lack of respect to guys like Tierney. Shooting rather than passing when he should. When Louis arrived there was a change in his behaviour where he viewed him as an equal colleague rather than a silly wee boys beside him. Hammy hasn't battered that away.

7./ Read the riot act to any shitebags, Goss and Spittal prime candidates, we're officially in the shit now and while enough time to get out of it and a meh league from 4th to 12th we need the epiphany of our line in the sand moment. Tell Slattery to stay on his feet and ride challenges rather than going to ground and losing any momentum, also because the resulting free kick will be a clipped floater by Goss to be swatted away by capable central defenders.

 

For the next game he needs to look at what's gone wrong. I'd have the following players in the starting line up and reason why:

Kelly - No comment needed

McGinn - No issues with me, he's safe but that's it. He wasn't the best as right centre half in a back 4, in a back three I have to have hope

Lamie - Under extreme duress

Johnson - Let's see if he can have an impact like Hastie did upon his return from loan, granted not going to be among the goals to the same degree

SOD - He was a Scotland starter 18 months ago (merits of that on another thread) and we as a club have sapped his mojo. He is effective if played to his strengths which is a wingback with adequate cover behind him to protect his lack of pace. Match fitness in question

Penney - Milk him till he goes

Blaney - A Hail Mary why the f**k not

Cornelius - While having a few deficiencies he bleeds C&A and as a supporter is motivated more than the rest. Will put in 110% for Hammy

Slattery - Our only baller just a bit ancy at times, I suspect he needs to be made to feel "special"

Tierney - Wee fella has has a uphill battle his whole life and took it on. He has technique and gumption we lack

McKinstry - Same as Dean and the only natural winger we have

KvV - Because he's it, if we had an alternative I'd drop him for a game

 

-------------- Kelly ------------

---- McGinn - Lamie - Blaney ----

SOD/Johnson ----------- Penney

----- Slattery --- Cornelius -----

------ Tierney - McKinstry ------

------------- KvV -------------

 

Instructions: Dean you're the bulldog, Slatts box to box, Tierney and McKinstry you boys are young so you need to cover a lot of ground, Lamie screw the nut, Blaney postage stamp free kicks please, Kev don't be a dick.

Still no leaders though.

Lot of merit in that post.

My times not up with Hammy just yet. I accept results have been poor and he needs to do more to turn this around other than just meekly accept it.

But his options have been extremely limited and he does imho deserve the backing of the board to get players in and turn it around.

We are not cut adrift at the bottom. Despite our horrendous form we are still 3 clear of Ross County with a far superior GD. We are still above Dundee United and in touch with Kilmarnock.

January will be a massive month. We need bodies in the door and a couple of good wins against those around us to take the pressure off a bit. 

Its not a lost cause, by a long shot. But we need to see improvements and a change of shape to make us harder to beat wouldnt be the worst place to start.

[Ron Aldo]

I'm just about happy enough for Hammell to be given the January transfer window and see where we're at. If this run of results continues beyond that then it's difficult to see where we go. 

I don't see us sacking him regardless. We aren't really that type of club, far less where a genuine club legend is concerned. Unless Hammell steps down, which I don't see happening either, then we're as well sticking by him. As someone else touched on, we'd likely end up with Kettlewell as manager if Hammell did step down which gives me massive fucking fear. 

I, like everyone, am frustrated with the soft as f**k goals we concede every single week. Hammell was a defender but he's now the manager so he probably (rightly) feels he has to focus on the whole team rather than just the defence. I don't know if it would be feasible to bring in a defensive coach as I don't imagine Brian Kerr would be able to impart much wisdom (given he was a bit of a shitebag of a player). 

[Ron Aldo]

Also, f**k 4-3-3. Why has every manager since Robinson insisted on playing it despite it never really suiting the squad we have? 

I've always been of the opinion that 5-3-2 with 3 at the back, 2 wing-backs and 2 up front would see us be a bit more solid defensively but with a bit more threat up front. 4-3-3 has us constantly playing with wingers who aren't really wingers (hi Connor Shields) and 2 rotten centre half's who are left constantly exposed.

[gavin_3110]

I'm not quick to press the panic button, but I do fear for us this season. We have that unenviable trait of remaining well in contention during games yet conspiring to lose. At 2-1 down yesterday we were looking quite threatening yet find ourselves 3-1 down rather than level, I can think of several very similar situations over the first half of the season and I suspect that is what will define our campaign.

We are incredibly soft all over the park, not just in terms of physicality but in terms of defensive discipline and concentration over 90 minutes. We are a team with a smattering of tidy players but very little depth and several starters who are ultimately just not good enough to hold that role. We look like we lack leadership and there doesn't seem to be any domineering characters in the team. 

Hammell has been dealt a shite hand. The state that Alexander left that squad in was criminal. We are a club with scant resources and he committed a fair chunk of expenditure on substandard, or unnecessary players. New contract for McGinley, signing McGinn when SOD is sitting with skelfs in his arse and losing players like O'Hara who are better than what we have now. Just a few examples. 

With that said, the team selection and persistence with the same tired and tested system is frustrating. I hope at a minimum we'll see McKinstry and Tierney start against County. I would like to see more widespread changes but there's almost nothing to come in. In supporters minds players only get better the longer they sit on the bench, but I think these two have a lot to contribute. 

I'm not sure what you change to get Tierney in the side, but I would be considering having Goss on the bench on Saturday. I think he's a good footballer, he can look like Zidane when you're 4-0 up against Inverness in the League Cup, but when the chips are down and it's a battle the game can pass him by. I don't think he creates enough to justify the lack of industry, not in this lacklustre side anyway. 

I felt for Shields yesterday, he is the scapegoat of this side. His confidence has been decimated by being played out of position in a piss poor team. He had a poor 45 minutes yesterday, but he's far from the only one. I don't mind a player getting stick from their support for a lack of application, but his issue is clearly confidence and a bit of quality. In normal times he'd be a useful squad player, not being hung out to dry every week. 

I still reckon we can still turn it round if we can get a few quality signings in the door who can hit the ground running. Desperately hoping for some good news on that front. 

[well fan for life]

Just got my ticket for Arbroath away. Might as well scope out the surroundings for next season. 

[Phillips455]

31 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Just got my ticket for Arbroath away. Might as well scope out the surroundings for next season. 

Well, it might be our only time we could play them. By the time we get relegated, the could be in league one.

[Swello]

Got my Arbroath tickets too - maybe a wee look at some Championship facilities might concentrate a few minds....

['WellDel]

7 minutes ago, Phillips455 said:

Well, it might be our only time we could play them. By the time we get relegated, the could be in league one.

Might not even be a Derby either, should the worst happen. Accies looking utterly fucked also atm. Which is a shame......

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

I am of the opinion that a fair bit of this is Alexander's mess and have a degree of sympathy for Steven Hammell. However, regardless of what my opinion on him becoming the manager was, at the time I thought it was a very brave leap for him to leave his job as academy director, where he probably could have had steady employment for say, 5 - 10 years had he wanted it.

Based on the fact that he knew what he was inheriting and that he's had 20 games in charge, I think he now needs to start shouldering responsibility, particularly as we are using the same formation, making the same subs who have no impact.

My concern for the rest of the season is thinking about how past January business has improved our season significantly. When Bara was in charge, there's no doubt that Pearson, Johnson and then a month or so later McDonald were absolutely key to us surviving, albeit through playoffs, that season.

As much as the rest of his Motherwell career didn't pan out that successfully, Elliott Frear's goal and six assists in the last six games of the 2016/17 season went a long way to keeping us up.

Outwith that, in 2017/18 season, there's no doubt that Aldred and Main came in January and done us a turn that season, but really they were replacements rather than additions, as Hartley and Moult from the first half of the season were no longer available to us. Likewise in January 2004, where we got O'Donnell and McDonald in, but really Faddy and Pearson had left since the summer.

I guess there are arguments that whilst not many of Alexander's signings did much in January 2021, they did perhaps give the competition needed to give the likes of Mugabi, Long and Lamie better form than the first half of the season, but other than January 2015 when Bara was in charge, I don't think there's been another example of our second half of the season significantly improving as the direct result of January signings and that's really what we need it to do this season.

 

[gullane]

I respect we live in a democracy and fans are seldom slow in vending their anger and despair. A lot of us therefore should shoulder some responsibility for the form of Connor Shields. Yesterday, he suffered more abuse than Douglas Ross! Playing in a wide position not suited to him, and in a team that is not performing can't be good for his self confidence but repeatedly booing him and slagging him off online can't help either.

I don't know much about his QOS career, other than he bagged goals. I wonder if he might start performing as a striker if we tried him as a six yard box poacher in a 3-5-2 or 4-4-2.

With regards to Steven Hammell, I think he needs to be backed by the board and fans. When we went 0-2 yesterday, I looked at him on the touchline and wondered what was going through his mind. Did he not know how to change things or did he feel he didn't have the bench to change it? My only gripe was the length of time it took to get Tierney actually on the pitch after deciding on the switch.

There were three or four passages of play yesterday when the team actually managed some good football. The individual errors at the back is what cost us the game. I agree with everyone else that the same back four can't start against Ross County next week.

What age is Gregor Stevens now? Is he a free agent?

[well fan for life]

I think we've all fancied a go at a 3-5-2 for a while now but we seem pretty stuck in the 4-3-3 purgatory. Shields is definitely not a wide player so if we are going to stick with him at least stick him nearer KvV and see what happens.