Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Doonhame Buddie]

Did you ever manage to replace Burrows?  Wondering if his departure is part of your problem. 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

There's no denying this is a massive week for us and Kettlewell.

If we lose on Tuesday, St. Johnstone go a point behind us with a game in hand. Whilst that is a bit frightening - it's only taken St. Johnstone one win to get from rock bottom to this position. If we have a good week and beat St. Johnstone and even nick a point at home to Hearts, the outlook changes massively.

Another thing that's come to my mind is that if Gent or Davor can't get a start when we've had 1 point in 7 games, what was the point in signing them? We'd have been as well just keeping Maguire and McGinley and saving the admin staff the hassle.

[MurrayWell]

Thankfully I missed the game yesterday, but reviews have once again been less than glowing. Kelly channelling his inner Craig Samson really isn't helping either.

Certainly don't think it's 'all out panic mode' time, but we really need to get a result soon, Tuesday ideally. 

What worries me is we're really struggling in the 'battling' games. I don't think it's a coincidence that we've performed better (even when we've lost) against the teams you'd probably except us on paper to struggle against who typically try to play a bit more fitba (Hearts, Hibs, Celtic, Rangers).

Against teams who tend to focus on being organised we've struggled massively, from Dundee away, St Mirren at home (albeit they are absolutely flying) Livi away, Ross County at home, Aberdeen at home (accept Aberdeen played us off the park, but I think the way they played came as a bit of a surprise) and Killie away we've taken two points. Not a criticism of any of those sides by the way, they've mostly done an absolute number on us. We seem to be really stuck between styles just now of trying to be a side that gets the ball down and plays, and a side who is going direct and being organised, we're doing neither well. 

St Johnstone away is often a stinker anyway, but with Levein in charge you'd expect it's going to be absolutely fucking horrible. 

[Ludo*1]

2 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

Ross Tokely was a complete thug.  Jim Goodwin was a thug.  Kettlewell was nowhere near that.  His days at Motherwell are clearly numbered, but let’s not let revisionism be a stick to beat him with.  

Kettlewell was barbaric. Never forget the day Willie McStay sent him on to maim Craig Forsyth. Ended up breaking Forsyth's nose before injuring himself.

[Casagolda]

1 hour ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Another thing that's come to my mind is that if Gent or Davor can't get a start when we've had 1 point in 7 games, what was the point in signing them? We'd have been as well just keeping Maguire and McGinley and saving the admin staff the hassle.

Said it on the match thread, chucking SODS on with 10 mens to go when we were chasing a goal was so bad it was almost funny.

Yesterday wasn’t anything different. Switching one 30 something wing back for another while Spencer continued to struggle down the left solved nothing. Still no pace or width in the team. Swapping to 10’s out for 2 strikers didn’t change anything, as you said it was essentially the same shape except we were just shelling more high balls forward instead of even attempting to play through the middle.

It was rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. For me, it was the most worrying sign yet that Kettlewell isn’t going to turn this round. He didn’t address any of the issues or problems and his sole plan yesterday was to try to shitfest his way to a point. 

Which, even if we’d been successful, is just kicking the can down the road a bit. We got a late point against Ross County last week and it’s done absolutely nothing to improve matters. Until we actually start to see signs of change and addressing the fundamental issues within the team, I refuse to buy into the Kettlewell deserves more time patter. 

It’s Scottish football, you play each other so often teams will work you out eventually. As a manager you either adapt or you get sacked, simple as that. 

Kettlewell’s got 2 massive games coming up to show he’s up to the task. If he doesn’t, then I honestly don’t think he can have any complaints about getting his jotters. 

[Allroy for Prez]

We can’t be sacking managers every season but if we go 10+ games without a win, losing 9 of them and playing terribly in all of them modern football dictates a decision may well have to be made to stop the rot. 

Kettlewell did a great job of punting the obvious duds out on loan in the summer but his signings, particularly in the forward areas (potentially Biereth aside) are probably sackable offences in their own right. Klopp or Gardiola would struggle to get a tune out of Bair, Wilkinson and Shaw. Obika was also a mistake due to his injury riddled past. These guys wouldn’t even get a space on the bench for any other team in the division.

The wingback situation is also hampering us massively. O’Donnell isn’t good enough to be a starter and on the other side we are playing a young guy out of position! And that’s our preferred starters?!?! 

The new guy, if it comes to it, is only going to be saddled with this also.  

How have we found ourselves in such a mess than a year on from the last mess? 

[ropy]

I don’t tend to seek managers getting the sack and I’m not now, however one of Kettlewell’s recent interviews worried me.  He was asked about what input he took about making changes to make things better, he said he didn’t and it was all on him.  Why would you not ask Spittal what he was seeing during a game, what was working for him or what problems he was facing.  Surely McGinn is looking up the park and seeing whether people’s positions add to the fluidity of the team, Slattery must have an opinion on whether he feels the midfield is more secure with Miller sitting behind him or Paton pushing past him.  Why would he not have these discussions then make a decision on changes that may improve the team.

Edited November 5, 2023 by ropy

['WellDel]

Kettlewell was rightly given credit for managing to offload so much dead wood from the squad in the summer. It's the fact that, in some cases, he's actually managed to replace them with even worse or more injury prone shite than we originally had that's contributed to fucking it.

Soaré and Obika being permanently fucked is a surprise to no-one. Shaw, Wilkinson and Bair just won't do, and wee Davor obviously doesn't seem fancied if he can't get some game time amongst the shite we are currently witnessing. We're working on a small budget for sure, but recruitment has yet again been an utter fucking shambles. 

[well fan for life]

2 hours ago, Doonhame Buddie said:

Did you ever manage to replace Burrows?  Wondering if his departure is part of your problem. 

Nah. We're run exclusively by vibes and currently they are bad.

[Busta Nut]

3 hours ago, Doonhame Buddie said:

Did you ever manage to replace Burrows?  Wondering if his departure is part of your problem. 

No, and no, not really. Some people would suggest he was a problem from what I hear and read elsewhere. But I Like Burrows so not me.

[Handsome_Devil]

46 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

No, and no, not really. Some people would suggest he was a problem from what I hear and read elsewhere. But I Like Burrows so not me.

The issue is less the lack of burrows (he was - not unreasonably - running on fumes by the end) but any direction from anyone at all.

AB clearly went above and beyond and while it worked everyone was happy to stay out the way. It begins to slip, then he leaves and there's an absolute vacuum.

I mentioned before but the problem of being a fan-owned club our size is less the money but the pool of capable and willing people for the executive and advisory boards is limited. It is unavoidable there will be dry spells.

The Society has some fresh blood from elections last month which will hopefully bring some inspiration but the club board urgently needs sorted too.

And as hard as it is to move money from the playing budget, the decision needs to be made just how we see ourselves being run and the model funded.

[eliphas]

Have to say...slightly worrying signs in this interview from SK for me. Starting to become overly defensive and searching a wee bit for things that don't exist....

He overthought it a bit yesterday. Going long with 3 strikers wasnt needed really. The pitch is playable so get on with it and don't let the pitch play us..which in the end it did because we changed it too much, our strikers aren't good at heading the ball so there's reason 2 and the midfield was left far too weak in that system.

I've still got some confidence in SK but, as others have said, the next game is pretty big  

 

 

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[eliphas]

1 hour ago, well fan for life said:

Nah. We're run exclusively by vibes and currently they are bad.

 

1 hour ago, Busta Nut said:

No, and no, not really. Some people would suggest he was a problem from what I hear and read elsewhere. But I Like Burrows so not me.

I liked AB too and no one can credibly argue he was anything but great for the club overall. 

But he left at the...kind of right time. 6 months earlier could have helped everyone out though and the manner of leaving was more than disappointing for both parties. But these things happen. 

It all started to crumble a bit when Robbo left I reckon. The club essentially left Robbo and Burrows to architect the club top to bottom without much, any, direction wanted or required. Not sure there was enough experience around anywhere to help manage the fall out of that exit.

-Everyone was kinda hoodwinked by Alexander's big plan he sold....not the first club either. 

- Hammell was a poor appointment and that has to go on McMahon and Burrows.

- Kettlewell...well we'll see I guess.

Edited November 5, 2023 by eliphas

[Handsome_Devil]

3 minutes ago, eliphas said:

It all started to crumble a bit when Robbo left I reckon. The club essentially left Robbo and Burrows to architect the club top to bottom without much, any, direction wanted or required. Not sure there was enough experience around anywhere to help manage the fall out of that exit.

In fairness we tried to develop the reign of Alexander, completely oblivious to the fact he was Graham Alexander.

[AdamMFC]

9 minutes ago, eliphas said:

Have to say...slightly worrying signs in this interview from SK for me. Starting to become overly defensive and searching a wee bit for things that don't exist....

He overthought it a bit yesterday. Going long with 3 strikers wasnt needed really. The pitch is playable so get on with it and don't let the pitch play us..which in the end it did because we changed it too much, our strikers aren't good at heading the ball so there's reason 2 and the midfield was left far too weak in that system.

I've still got some confidence in SK but, as others have said, the next game is pretty big  

 

 

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Yeah that's a little bit worrying, not seen him get that defensive in an interview before, any time I see any manager start to do that it feels like the begining of the end.

I've also still got some confidence in him but Tuesday is huge for us and him, failure to win and the pressure is really on and I start to struggle to see where our next points come from. 

[Allroy for Prez]

I think Livi’s only win in the last 7 was v us. What does that prove? That they are bad, but we are worser?

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Allroy for Prez

[eliphas]

1 hour ago, AdamMFC said:

Yeah that's a little bit worrying, not seen him get that defensive in an interview before, any time I see any manager start to do that it feels like the begining of the end.

I've also still got some confidence in him but Tuesday is huge for us and him, failure to win and the pressure is really on and I start to struggle to see where our next points come from. 

The whole bit about the press not giving him/us credit when we were winning is a load of rubbish as well. Strikes of someone panicking.  We were pretty much lauded in all quarters for the job he did turning it around 

[Ron Aldo]

I hold out some hope that Davor is the second coming of Ali Gorrin. Will be nowhere the first half of the season but will become a regular in January and spend the next few months cementing folk. 

Now we just need to find the next Gboly and Turnbull and we're sorted. 

[welldaft]

To be fair to the interviewer or any interviewer he is not likely to ask Kettlewell if his job is under threat after a run of 15 wins in 22. He is more likely to ask it after 1 point from 7 games. 

That said Kettlewell is feeling the pressure and I actually quite like the fact he bristled when asked the Q. His team has just lost again. He is hardly going to be in the best mood.

I quite like Kettlewell. He did save our bacon and had us on an outstanding run. Losing KVV, Max J, Furlong etc was ways going to be very difficult to replace. He was told clearly he had to reduce the playing squad and budget quite significantly. Does not excuse some of the average to poor players he has brought in. But it can help explain it when you are trying to attract players on relative peanuts. 

I hope he can turn it around. It does not look too good at the moment but I would be pissed off if we were sacking yet another Manager. Then again I guess clubs like Hibs, Rangers and St J etc have had as many changes in management.

Edited November 5, 2023 by welldaft

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Can only agree with everything that's already been said about the state of things right now but also that we really need to get out of the cycle of sacking managers every season.  A lot of it depends on what's going on behind the scenes tbh, if he's admitted the summer's recruitment mistakes and identified some sort of plan to rectify it then I'd probably just hope we could shitfest a few results until January. If he's gone off the deep end the way Hammell apparently did then it's a different story obviously.

If we lose the next two I'd imagine he's gone anyway.