Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[joewarkfanclub]

7 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

We started the game with a back 4 which was quickly scrapped after they got behind us down our right 3 times in the first 10 minutes.

We started the game with a back 3 and Spittal at RWB. He was the one being roasted in the first 10 minutes!

[capt_oats]

@Ron Aldo mentioned it in the match thread but no Wilko in the squad at all and no reference in the tweet?

[eliphas]

Anyway. 

9th place with, 

St Johnstone 2 behind, game in hand v Dundee. Not a guaranteed win. 

Ross County 2 behind, 2 games in hand v Hibs and Rangers. Both more likely to lose than win.

Livi 8 behind.

....that's a better spot than I thought we'd be in just now. 

 

[Casagolda]

I do have some sympathy for Wilkinson.

He was clearly signed to play in a pair when we were doing 352 at the start of the season and he has still managed 3 goals with just 7 league starts. However when he got injured Kettlewell’s since veered away into 523 and 541 etc, neither of which has a role for him in the team.

Decent technically and seems a good finisher but not physical enough to lead the line on his own or mobile enough to play wider. He’s also not a central midfielder either as we know. So fair play to Kettlewell if he’s going to cut his losses rather than try to force it to work- very Robinson like.

Biereth is clearly the main man, I’m not sure if wide of a 3 is his best position but another couple of assists today has him on 6 goals and 5 assists in just 12 starts. Meanwhile Bair, who probably started the season as 4th choice, now has 5 goals and 2 assists in 14 his starts. Forcing his way above Wilkinson and Obika in the pecking order.

The latter if he can stay fit, can hang about as an experienced option off the bench. Where all this leaves Shaw who knows, hopefully back in Barnsley. 

 

Edited January 2 by Casagolda

[Swello]

4/6 points is what all of us would have said would have been a good/acceptable return for Livi(h) and Hibs(a) - so despite walking out the ground a bit gutted earlier - I think it's been a good week overall as Livi have a huge job to overturn our lead.

The line-up was weird in the end today but from the available players, the 4-4-2 seemed logical enough - we then got ripped to shreds down our right and that was it. Formation aside, we were terrible in the first half and the opener was like the opener against Rangers - too easy to get at and score against and we can't keep doing it.

Bair turning into a servicable forward was a twist I didn't see coming but long may it last - him and Mika are clearly a pain to play against. Other than that, not many great performances - Gent was the pick of the bunch for me.

 

[well fan for life]

I'm not going to spend a long time panning Bevis for his shortcomings. Realistically we all know he's, at best, a stopgap defender. He's seen off 3 managers (maybe 4 soon) and the endless turnover is probably what's kept him getting contracts with us. The fact that we were starting this season with 2/3 of the nightmare fuel that was Bevis, Mugabi & Sol is further testament to recruitment that has been complete dogshit.

As for today. Setting up with our best midfielder at RWB, who spent the first 15 minutes getting the pish ripped out him. Our only saviour is that Hibs then moved Tavares infield where it was more congested, as I said in the match thread they are fucking idiots for doing that. Slattery was anonymous, Paton is never a 6 in his life and is maybe the least composed player on the ball I can remember. There's probably a 4-4-2 in that team but we're back to sticking square pegs in round holes.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, well fan for life said:

I'm not going to spend a long time panning Bevis for his shortcomings. Realistically we all know he's, at best, a stopgap defender. He's seen off 3 managers (maybe 4 soon) and the endless turnover is probably what's kept him getting contracts with us. The fact that we were starting this season with 2/3 of the nightmare fuel that was Bevis, Mugabi & Sol is further testament to recruitment that has been complete dogshit.

As for today. Setting up with our best midfielder at RWB, who spent the first 15 minutes getting the pish ripped out him. Our only saviour is that Hibs then moved Tavares infield where it was more congested, as I said in the match thread they are fucking idiots for doing that. Slattery was anonymous, Paton is never a 6 in his life and is maybe the least composed player on the ball I can remember. There's probably a 4-4-2 in that team but we're back to sticking square pegs in round holes.

Tbf it's a big ask for Bevis to be playing two positions at the same time. 

On the square pegs in round holes thing and recruitment in general, I'm genuinely curious to see how/if Kettlewell addresses this.

It feels harsh to be criticising Slattery when he's being asked to play in a role that's totally not him - similar to the Wilkinson/CM thing - as @Casagolda mentions it looks like we brought Wilko in with a view to sticking with the 3412 that worked last season but have since pivoted to the variations of this box midfield and the 523 despite us having to shoehorn players into these roles.

I guess what I'm wondering is whether or not we're going to be actively recruiting to allow us to play players in their actual positions during this window ie: if (as seems to be the case) Wilkinson's being sacrificed is that to bring in a better fit or is it just the case that he hurt Kettlewell's feelings by telling the press he'd never played centre mid in his life and had no idea what he was doing when he was chucked in there.

Incidentally, I don't think there's a chance that we cancel Shaw's loan. I think Kettlewell is entirely invested in him.

Edited January 2 by capt_oats

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

13 hours ago, Oh Well said:

Don't get your point mate.. a bunch of weans? Hibs had 2 x 16 year olds and a 17 year old on the park today and they still dominated and bossed our so called 1st team choice..

I really don't think you can call yesterday "our so called 1st team choice". We literally had to make two changes because two players who started on Saturday were injured. Three others who have been nailed on starters when fit - Miller, Casey and Spencer - were missing too.

[welldaft]

23 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I really don't think you can call yesterday "our so called 1st team choice". We literally had to make two changes because two players who started on Saturday were injured. Three others who have been nailed on starters when fit - Miller, Casey and Spencer - were missing too.

Absolutely. I spent many years going to Easter Rd when we had so called better teams and squads and hardly ever saw us record wins. 

Both teams were light on numbers yesterday as well documented but it does not change the fact that Hibs have a bigger and more expensively assembled squad. That and they were at home yesterday having had a free weekend to recharge. A draw however it was achieved was a decent result on the back of our 1st win in a long time. 

Edited January 3 by welldaft

[well fan for life]

We are missing Miller badly. The midfield's ball retention must be the worst in the league. Davor & Spittal are slightly better with it but Slattery and particularly Paton are murder at holding onto the ball. Again the gaping hole where a half decent 6 should be is showing. 

 

Edited January 3 by well fan for life

[MurrayWell]

3 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

We are missing Miller badly. The midfield's ball retention must be the worst in the league. Davor & Spittal are slightly better with it but Slattery and particularly Paton are murder at holding onto the ball. Again the gaping hole where a half decent 6 should be is showing. 

 

Completely agree, said similar about yesterday's performance in particular. Get that Hibs are a team we'll allow to have the ball but the number of stray passes yesterday seemed to be ridiculously high. 

Am I right in saying Miller is due back mid January? Hopefully that's the case, the lad is a class act and has become one of our most important players. 

Last thing on yesterday, given some of the comments on social media, I was expecting McGhee chucking Ainsworth under the bus levels of comments from Kettlewell about Gent, are we now just at the stage where whatever Kettlewell says will be overanalysed, as well as recent form being overlooked to focus on the absolutely horrific run without a win? 

While I'd rather he didn't name specific players, he prefaced it with saying how good Gent has been for us and that it's a learning curve. I took it more as him trying to remind folk he's a rookie and to get ahead of any harsh criticism that might come the way of Gent. 

[eliphas]

Ketts over analyses everything so we get to too. 

[capt_oats]

20 minutes ago, MurrayWell said:

Completely agree, said similar about yesterday's performance in particular. Get that Hibs are a team we'll allow to have the ball but the number of stray passes yesterday seemed to be ridiculously high. 

Am I right in saying Miller is due back mid January? Hopefully that's the case, the lad is a class act and has become one of our most important players. 

Last thing on yesterday, given some of the comments on social media, I was expecting McGhee chucking Ainsworth under the bus levels of comments from Kettlewell about Gent, are we now just at the stage where whatever Kettlewell says will be overanalysed, as well as recent form being overlooked to focus on the absolutely horrific run without a win? 

While I'd rather he didn't name specific players, he prefaced it with saying how good Gent has been for us and that it's a learning curve. I took it more as him trying to remind folk he's a rookie and to get ahead of any harsh criticism that might come the way of Gent. 

Aye. 100% this.

That's definitely how I saw the Kettlewell post-match as well. It feels like there's a strong element of folk projecting what they want on to it.

I genuinely didn't think anything of it beyond him reminding folk that he's still a young laddie who's on a learning curve to pre-empt any criticism then I saw someone on Twitter criticising Kettlewell for "digging Gent out" and I was like, "Huh?" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I really don't think you can call yesterday "our so called 1st team choice". We literally had to make two changes because two players who started on Saturday were injured. Three others who have been nailed on starters when fit - Miller, Casey and Spencer - were missing too.

Definitely.

I don't think the point @dezz was making was particularly difficult to understand either. It was a case of Kettlewell trying to make something work given the circumstances.

I mentioned this in the match thread but given the timing and our injuries and Hibs call ups yesterday was a fixture that seemed to be a pain in the arse for both sides and it's fair comment to point out that Hibs were hamstrung as well.

We were missing 5 players who have had regular first team involvement in Blaney, Shaw, Miller, Casey and Spencer (4 of them starters, the other our most used sub) plus Wilkinson and I guess we haven't had the opportunity to replace Souaré either. For a squad whose numbers have been trimmed on instruction missing 6 or 7 players through injury, suspension or as yet undeclared reasons is a problem.

The fact that a glance at our bench saw 5 school weans, Nathan McGinley (who hasn't kicked a baw since getting 1 (ONE) minute off the bench against Hearts in September) and a substitute goalkeeper suggests that our squad was stretched pretty fucking thin. From the 9 subs available only 2 have had any sort of regular first team football and both of those of those are coming back from long term injuries.

I mean, there are legitimate questions about how you choose to set up in those circumstances and the broader issue of squad building but calling that "our so called 1st team choice" is a laugh. We had Bevis being flanked by two full backs with Blair Spittal ending up at wing back (again) and Calum Slattery wide right FFS.

Don't get me wrong some of those may well be Ketts making weird choices but either way that is literally no one's first choice anything.

Edited January 3 by capt_oats

[Swello]

13 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

The fact that a glance at our bench saw 5 school weans, Nathan McGinley (who hasn't kicked a baw since getting 1 (ONE) minute off the bench against Hearts in September) and a substitute goalkeeper suggests that our squad was stretched pretty fucking thin. From the 9 subs available only 2 have had any sort of regular first team football and both of those of those are coming back from a long term injuries.

Yesterday showed how ridiculously stretched we are - there were quite a few players looking absolutely knackered in the last 15-20 mins and we had no options to replace them and freshen things up.

On Gent - I thought he had a perfectly decent game - for an inexperienced, raw young player - but that obviously doesn't mean he didn't make mistakes. If we are going to bring U23/academy players up from England on loan (which I think is something worth doing as there are clearly players available who would be decent for us that aren't getting near 1st team down there) then we need to live with that.

 

[Busta Nut]

 

[MurrayWell]

Just now, Busta Nut said:

 

Awk, that's pish. 

[Luke92]

Aye, to be honest some of the comments on the post match re Gent were nonsense. Nothing new from Twitter though, most of the stuff on there is best off ignored.

I like Gent going forward but I think he is really lacking defensively. He was really ropey in the Rangers game as well. Clearly thats why we have on loan though.

Disappointing regarding Spencer, I thought he was decent. HIs form hasn't been as good as when he came into the team but he still has really good pace.

[Busta Nut]

Spencer leaving fucks us. SOD is done and may just be an acceptable RCB but McGinn is much better there. 

[MurrayWell]

3 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

Spencer leaving fucks us. SOD is done and may just be an acceptable RCB but McGinn is much better there. 

Time for Moult to return and just play there eh?