Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[well fan for life]

I want to know if he's got a bucket for the improving peoples lives budget because I'd hazard a guess that it's pretty fucking empty right now. 

[Neil86]

Next season could be an interesting one on many fronts, With Kettlewell out of contract in the summer I wouldn't be surprised to see him keep us safe, thanks for the job you've done, and his reputation is probably better than it was two years ago. We also have the glaring issue of about 80% of the first team being out of contract next season.

So if Kettlewell isn't in the plans for next season, we cannot risk wasting 3-4 weeks on the hunt for a new manager in the summer.

[CoF]

I didn’t think any of the marketing stuff was to do with attracting new fans or brand values, but purely make us more attractive to sponsors and advertisers. 
 

If you can put a presentation / spreadsheet / whatever to prospective advertisers saying that last year we put out the #pete6 video which had 15 million views (or whatever it was) and loads of international coverage and YOUR brand could be on the front of the shirt for the next one, then that’s going to drive up the value.  I imagine McEwan Fraser felt they got their moneys worth that year. 
 

Seems pretty simple to me so Im surprised Weir said investing in media team or the first team was a zero sum game. 

Edited January 9 by CoF

[welldaft]

1 hour ago, CoF said:

Seems pretty simple to me so Im surprised Weir said investing in media team or the first team was a zero sum game. 

I am not. I would be if he was from a PR/Marketing/Comms background. 

I read from his interview that he felt that the spend on Media (when Flow was around) was out of proportion for a club the size of Motherwell. Regardless of the output and success or otherwise it is hard to argue with that logic. When we have teams larger than almost all the city clubs then that is unsustainable.

I dare say we could debate whether where we are now is a step backwards and a smaller budget / resource than a club the size of Motherwell. But given the squeeze on costs and the current CEO stated thoughts it is unlikely to change. 

As to the Manager. That was illuminating. Not least the fact we were still paying for 3 Managers at one point. Which we all suspected was the case. But his comments did point to the fact that Ketts was going nowhere probably even if we had lost to Livi. If he keeps us up then I don’t see him moving and tbh if we have a bottom 3 budget then I don’t think he should. Brevity is not his strong point, but I like him and think he is a very competent Manager. 

[CoF]

18 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I am not. I would be if he was from a PR/Marketing/Comms background. 

I read from his interview that he felt that the spend on Media (when Flow was around) was out of proportion for a club the size of Motherwell. Regardless of the output and success or otherwise it is hard to argue with that logic. When we have teams larger than almost all the city clubs then that is unsustainable.

I’m as far away from a marketing background as you can get but even I know the value in this stuff. If he said there was no net gain then I would understand, but to reduce it to the department simply being too big seems weird. Maybe it wasn’t value for money and he just oversimplified the point for the sake about being concise. 

Anyway, it’s a minor thing from what I thought was a good interview. 

 

[Handsome_Devil]

29 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I read from his interview that he felt that the spend on Media (when Flow was around) was out of proportion for a club the size of Motherwell. Regardless of the output and success or otherwise it is hard to argue with that logic. When we have teams larger than almost all the city clubs then that is unsustainable.

As to the Manager. That was illuminating. Not least the fact we were still paying for 3 Managers at one point. Which we all suspected was the case. But his comments did point to the fact that Ketts was going nowhere probably even if we had lost to Livi. If he keeps us up then I don’t see him moving and tbh if we have a bottom 3 budget then I don’t think he should. Brevity is not his strong point, but I like him and think he is a very competent Manager. 

You could also argue that to compete with those bigger than us,  we need to to match up where we can pick the battleground - you can probably run a kick-ass comms and marketing department over two to three years for less and with with more stability than a front three you then go to advertisers, sponsors etc and say look, our total audience reach/engagement is much closer to that of Aberdeen/Edinburgh than you'd think but 25% cheaper...

Without the numbers there's obviously no way of knowing if that worked in practice or if it was remotely the right place to pick a fight. But if we want - to wheel out the dreaded phrase - to punch above our weight than some sort of creativity is clearly needed and it's probably not a stretch to believe spending more on marketing/media could then bring a greater return.

As for the manager, I'd have binned him a while ago but now we've backed him instead we're surely hoping to go beyond May. Otherwise you're back in chaos, even if it costs less...if he keeps us safe-ish, I think he can claim job done and he deserves a crack at a summer window which isn't a fire sale.

 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Mahon is a bit of a weird one, maybe he's homesick/terrible in training/all his Edinburgh goals have been sclaffs that went in accidentally, but in our position a loanee that's scored 7 goals before January seems like a pretty low-risk option to chuck in and see what happens. 

I assume we're not getting paid?

[one m in Motherwell]

And that's the lesser spotted Barry Maguire officially back.

 

I, for one, am overjoyed at this news.

[Neil86]

20 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Mahon is a bit of a weird one, maybe he's homesick/terrible in training/all his Edinburgh goals have been sclaffs that went in accidentally, but in our position a loanee that's scored 7 goals before January seems like a pretty low-risk option to chuck in and see what happens. 

I assume we're not getting paid?

Edinburgh posted a clip of his goals on twitter, some absolute pearlers. So much so that Edinburgh tweeted ROBBIE MAHON he only scores crackers.

[eliphas]

1 hour ago, CoF said:

I’m as far away from a marketing background as you can get but even I know the value in this stuff. If he said there was no net gain then I would understand, but to reduce it to the department simply being too big seems weird. Maybe it wasn’t value for money and he just oversimplified the point for the sake about being concise. 

Anyway, it’s a minor thing from what I thought was a good interview. 

 

Think it's as simple as his opinion was the media spend was way out of proportion when we have a challenging squad budget. He didn't really touch on value of that spend Vs output etc.

He also said, to be fair to him, someone else could come in with a different view. So I took from all that he was quite happy to say he didn't think it was value for money when money is so tight and he sees it simply as first team squad budget and then everything else 

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, CoF said:

I’m as far away from a marketing background as you can get but even I know the value in this stuff. If he said there was no net gain then I would understand, but to reduce it to the department simply being too big seems weird. Maybe it wasn’t value for money and he just oversimplified the point for the sake about being concise. 

Anyway, it’s a minor thing from what I thought was a good interview. 

Aye. I'm kind of hesitant to focus on it because broadly it's a really good interview that, as has been already been said, gives the sort of clarity that would have been useful at various points over the past year.

That said, given it was a big part of the identity of the club under Burrows it's an interesting point of discussion given Weir clearly has thoughts about it that are very different to Flow and I'm fairly sure that the basic argument of "why are we investing as much in the media team when it means we're running with a bottom 3 playing budget?" - which is what he seems to be saying - is shared by a decent proportion of Motherwell fans.

Having said that, one thing that I picked up on that seems to have been missed is that in talking about the scaling back of the media/comms department Weir is kind of only giving his personal view on it.

At around 24:42 of the interview he says: "as you know two of the team decided to leave at the same time and the decision was made at that point based on finances and where we were doing (sic) and the people that were here that we wouldn't build that team and that we had a good enough team in the media and communications to do the job that we wanted to do."

So...Russell and Brannan left at the end of the 21/22 season. We announced Burrows was planning to step down in January 2023.

We also (quite famously) advertised the Head of Digital, Brand and Comms role as of March 1st 2022 the job description is still on the site - https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2022/03/01/vacancy-head-of-digital-brand-and-communications/

I suppose what I'm getting at is that decision seems to have pre-dated Weir taking the interim role so it's presumably been a decision that's been taken by the board somewhere between us advertising that role and Burrows exiting and I assume it's a decision Weir wasn't involved in but he agrees with.

Edited January 9 by capt_oats

[SteelyDosser]

7 minutes ago, eliphas said:

Think it's as simple as his opinion was the media spend was way out of proportion when we have a challenging squad budget. He didn't really touch on value of that spend Vs output etc.

He also said, to be fair to him, someone else could come in with a different view. So I took from all that he was quite happy to say he didn't think it was value for money when money is so tight and he sees it simply as first team squad budget and then everything else 

 

Surely the fanbase has some talented individuals who could help out here and there voluntarily?

 

[Handsome_Devil]

50 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Mahon is a bit of a weird one, maybe he's homesick/terrible in training/all his Edinburgh goals have been sclaffs that went in accidentally, but in our position a loanee that's scored 7 goals before January seems like a pretty low-risk option to chuck in and see what happens. 

WE HATE WINGERS.

Nah, I'd assume his fate basically sealed before he went out and nothing short of Messi like performances wasn't getting him a new deal. 

[thisGRAEME]

1 hour ago, SteelyDosser said:

Surely the fanbase has some talented individuals who could help out here and there voluntarily?

Don't take this the wrong way, but no. Having been in a similar role for...5 odd years+? I wouldn't.

Pay staff what they're worth.  

[Desp]

49 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Don't take this the wrong way, but no. Having been in a similar role for...5 odd years+? I wouldn't.

Pay staff what they're worth.  

Recent footage of @thisGRAEME getting his final month's wages.

[Nature Boy]

I was talking to a friend earlier about the Derek Weir video and it dawned on me mid-conversation that I don't actually think I know any more about the CEO recruitment process than I did beforehand. That's not to criticise the video as a whole, I still think it was useful (bar the various quibbles folk have raised) - but after 40 minutes, I still don't think we know what we're doing in terms of process. Would that be accurate or did I miss something (really don't want to watch it again)?

We know we used an agency and we know none of the four shortlisted candidates worked out. It happens and is presumably nobody's fault. But what's happening this time around, other than essentially publicly saying Keith Lasley & Grant Russell shouldn't apply?

Has the role been advertised? Is there a proper process in place? Will the outgoing CEO & Chairman be selecting the successful candidate?

I would presume the answer to all of these questions is probably "yes", particularly given Weir seems confident of having someone in place by March (which would seem more unlikely if there wasn't a proper recruitment process in place). But the lack of actual detail in such a detailed video, when we've been very open about the previous process, does make me wonder if we're just hoping someone randomly falls through the front door in the Phil O'Donnell Stand ready to go. Especially as we don't appear to have advertised the role anywhere, at least not in the fashion we've advertised pretty much every other role before, which would strike me as surely the first thing you'd ordinarily do.

[rowsdower]

I don't know how much more detail he could give on the ceo recruitment process. He went into almost the specifics on the original process which saw us lose out on 4 people. Then he said we ditched the recruiting company and have identified potential candidates and he hopes for have someone in place well before he plans to leave in march. The detail about not wanting anyone with a history at the club was interesting, and I like the idea of someone taking a fresh look.

I'm not worried about the whole not sacking the manager thing. He explained that it's a 3 month run, with losses to the city teams and too many draws, and that the manager still has the support of the players. That can change, and I have no doubt we'd take action if it did.

Somewhere in between our current comms and the Russell/Bannan vanity project would be ideal.

What surprises me the most is that he licks his lips like a lizard alien in a human suit.

[CoF]

45 minutes ago, Nature Boy said:

We know we used an agency and we know none of the four shortlisted candidates worked out. It happens and is presumably nobody's fault.

One of the candidates pulled out because he went to a game and didn’t like media coverage of it. No idea what that means but I’d like to blame Kenny McIntyre. 

[eliphas]

Yeah I think it's fairly clear what Weir said about the current CEO search. They've now got a list of names that they've identifed and are speaking to them directly with discussions ongoing. Some are in roles that require some discretion. Not using a recruiter anymore to do that, no job advert etc.

Ye know, like when Dave Cormack started speaking to Alan Burrows. Which defintley didn't happen before Alan decided to resign.

Edited January 9 by eliphas

[Doctor Manhattan]

58 minutes ago, rowsdower said:

What surprises me the most is that he licks his lips like a lizard alien in a human suit.

Spookily, I was re-reading one of the early "Bosch" books last night, which explained that frequent licking of the lips is a sign that customs teams use to pick out possible mules who are smuggling drugs packed into condoms which they've swallowed and/or inserted.  It's a side effect of the large quantity of anti-diarrhetic drugs they take to ensure they don't make an early exit.

I'm sure this is just a coincidence.