well again Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 9 hours ago, Big John Handsome said: Could see that result tonight coming a mile away. Ever since Robinson left I've expected nothing from games like this, however I don't know what has to change in order for us to not shit the bed in cup games. Only thing that concerns me in the last few games is the use / lack of subs, saying to my dad the other night that Kettlewell seems inept when it comings to changing things up in a game. I mean, Obika instead of Nicholson?? And against county I would have had some debutants on at the hour mark, get them up to speed instead of flinging them on away to Morton looking to get back in a game. Final point, hopefully Kelly doesn't get a new contract, having been blessed with some top keepers over the years he really is the worst I've seen in a long time in a well top. Anyone else find it counter productive having a keeper as captain? If it was me I'd have someone in defence/midfield who's more able to dictate the game. Paul mcginn is the obvious captain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'WellDel Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Being out a huge chunk of cash paying off our previous managerial f**k-ups obviously has us hamstrung in as far as being landed with Kettlewell goes. The outgoing board are just hoping to scrape by, then head for the hills by the season's end and let whoever the new incumbents are make the important calls. There are few situations in football that would see a manager still in post with the diabolical stats over the last 20 odd games, regardless of whether the players are still behind him or not. Fan pressure normally forces the issue in these circumstances as it did with both his predecessors, but there's an ever growing apathy and resignation in the stands as the support realise that the club simply can't afford to punt him as long as there looks to be a fair to middling chance that we'll stay up, and that's his safety net. The miraculous run we went on when he came in post Hammell was all the stars aligning in his (and KVV's) favour, a real anomaly that's never going to be repeated by either. The fact is, imo, that this squad (lack of options up front apart), has more about it than the one he inherited and the right man should be able to get enough of a tune from it to have us comfortably away from any relegation worries. Kettlewell is no longer that man and obviously hasn't been for some time. Sadly, finances dictate that he's here til summer no matter what. It's really just on a wing and a prayer that we do enough to survive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 26 minutes ago, eliphas said: Yes and no for me. I do think Kelly should be getting it, agreed. But absolving Paton, and to an extent Spittal too, and our system we play at corners, of any blame is looking for Kelly being a problem rather than looking at the whole situation. I mean Paton might as well not have been there and been sat up Tim Horton's. I put as much blame on Spittal as Kelly for the goal. Paton was unlucky in being up against a giant...we clearly ran out of big lads but assumed anything that close to Kelly would be a keeper's ball regardless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellboy1991 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 37 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said: Maybe unkind and probably old fashioned, but if the ball is in the six yard box: it's the keeper's. He does it all the time as well. Astonished more teams don't do it, because we concede every time from it. ETA: Mental that we didn't, at any point, get to grips with the conditions last night. 2 hours of playing football in some wind and at the end of those two hours we were still lumping passes around. Absolutely .. there is only one person inside that 6 yard box who can use his hands, allegedly jump higher than the rest, is a protected species and able to go for any ball. The keeper. Our cowardly little lion stands on his line and has the physical presence of a gnat at cross balls. 1 hour ago, Ron Aldo said: Without meaning to come across as condescending, does anyone actually know this? I don't think I've ever seen Oxborough play. I'm all for giving Oxborough a chance due to Kelly being utter dug shite but, knowing our luck, he'd end up being the second coming of Aaron Chapman. I get that but I’ve seen him maybe 3 times and each he comes off his line. He is bigger and stronger by a country mile than Kelly. Not saying he is great but he isn’t a vampire at corners. Aaron Chapman would have caught that ball .. maybe have let another three through his legs however. Infact he wouldn’t have because did Morton actually have any shots on goal that Kelly did save? I can’t think of any. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 32 minutes ago, CoF said: we'll possibly still be paying Alexanders wages (assuming we're paying off his full contract) Generally clubs seem to agree with managers theyll pay their contract until they get a new job, so in theory youd have stopped paying Alexander anything in May last year, when he took the MK Dons job. Guess hes maybe now an expert at being punted though, and managed to negotiate something different. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, Ron Aldo said: Without meaning to come across as condescending, does anyone actually know this? I don't think I've ever seen Oxborough play. I'm all for giving Oxborough a chance due to Kelly being utter dug shite but, knowing our luck, he'd end up being the second coming of Aaron Chapman. This has been exactly my position so far - the risk of using your other keeper is that the level of performance would drop considerably, the defence would panic and he'd likely ending up conceding soft goals. Hmmm At this point - I'm not seeing that there is a great deal of risk involved in giving Oxbourough a game at Pittodrie in front of a tiny 'Well support. Kelly isn't commanding his box, he looks nervous (which is clearly transmitting to the defence), his distribution is *fucking honking* and (the normal get out clause for struggling keepers) he is simply not a good shot stopper - he's at the point where he's scarcely waving his hands at shots. What are we gaining by keeping him in place, never mind as captain? Oxbourough might be no better, or he might be an upgrade on current model Kelly - but it's surely worth seeing what he's made of? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 10 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Generally clubs seem to agree with managers theyll pay their contract until they get a new job, so in theory youd have stopped paying Alexander anything in May last year, when he took the MK Dons job. Guess hes maybe now an expert at being punted though, and managed to negotiate something different. That would be sensible but sadly not. Our interim CEO confirmed last month that we still had Hammell (Celtic academy head since June) and Alexander on the books. No idea if it's a small percentage or full wage, but his point was that all other factors aside, we simply couldn't afford another managerial change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) 6 minutes ago, CoF said: That would be sensible but sadly not. Our interim CEO confirmed last month that we still had Hammell (Celtic academy head since June) and Alexander on the books. No idea if it's a small percentage or full wage, but his point was that all other factors aside, we simply couldn't afford another managerial change. Happy to stand corrected but I'm not sure he did. I thought he had said something along the lines of "at one point" we had (past tense) 3 managers and assistant managers on the payroll. The implication as I saw it was that it was last season he was talking about rather than currently. As far as I could tell the reason we're not keen on making another managerial change is, as you say, the cost but also there seems to be a general acceptance that we can't just keep binning managers every time we have a bad run (the bad business and bad vibes argument). Also the fact that the interim CEO is stepping down along with the chairman means it's a hassle they probably don't want to deal with. Edited February 10 by capt_oats 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one m in Motherwell Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 The problem with Kelly’s current state is that it clearly gives the folk in front of him zero confidence whatsoever. You add that to a defence that is full of players who aren’t naturals in the role they’re being asked to play, and it’s no wonder we are conceding soft goals most weeks. In patches last night (the first 20 mins or so, and when Vale and Devine came on) I actually thought we looked quite useful - some decent passing moves and everything looked quite fluid. We seemed to resort far to quickly to shelling long balls at Bair who only got more isolated as the game went on, you had Spittal and Paton dropping further and further back to try and force things rather than just concentrating on our own game. As many have said, we seemed to shite it from Morton and just couldn’t get over that. In terms of individuals: - Buyabu has a touch of the Gbolys about him - Vale and Devine deserve a start - Butcher is honking - Bair tried hard enough but needs support. That fucking Dougie Imrie song was doing my nut too, I should have stayed in and watched Seinfeld. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 7 minutes ago, capt_oats said: Happy to stand corrected but I'm not sure he did. I thought he had said something along the lines of "at one point" we had (past tense) 3 managers and assistant managers on the payroll. The implication as I saw it was that it was last season he was talking about rather than currently. As far as I could tell the reason we're not keen on making another managerial change is, as you say, the cost but also there seems to be a general acceptance that we can't just keep binning managers every time we have a bad run (the bad business and bad vibes argument). Also the fact that the interim CEO is stepping down along with the chairman means it's a hassle they probably don't want to deal with. You're right, just went back through the interview and I'm talking absolute shite. It was "at one point". @RandomGuy. - your take was spot on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamMFC Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I can't really add much more to what most have said already. The only people that saw last night as a real upset were those who haven't watched us all season. Kelly should have been dropped a long time ago and he should never be captain. At one point in the 2nd half the ball went out for a throw and in the break before it was taken I noticed Halliday shouting and giving instructions/directions to (I think) Paton and I thought that's what I want from my captain, someone to take responsibility and give help or instructions to teammates and if necessary a bolloking if they get something really wrong. I'm not saying Halliday should be the next captain but it was one of the few moments of someone showing some leadership. I'm scunnered about last night, I think very highly of the Scottish Cup and would love us to be able to have a real run in it but yet again for the 2nd year in a row we've been outplayed, out thought and outfought by a Championship side and it's just not near good enough. As I said to my Dad leaving the game last night, if in a years time we get drawn away in this round again and I say that could be a good away game please just remind of this and Kirkcaldy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Scan Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 13 hours ago, boozyBJ said: Kelly must be some laugh in a training camp to keep being called up by the national team Clarke must just look at his performances against St Mirren. Always looks the part 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesP_81 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 24 minutes ago, AdamMFC said: As I said to my Dad leaving the game last night, if in a years time we get drawn away in this round again and I say that could be a good away game please just remind of this and Kirkcaldy. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 37 minutes ago, one m in Motherwell said: The problem with Kelly’s current state is that it clearly gives the folk in front of him zero confidence whatsoever. You add that to a defence that is full of players who aren’t naturals in the role they’re being asked to play, and it’s no wonder we are conceding soft goals most weeks. In patches last night (the first 20 mins or so, and when Vale and Devine came on) I actually thought we looked quite useful - some decent passing moves and everything looked quite fluid. We seemed to resort far to quickly to shelling long balls at Bair who only got more isolated as the game went on, you had Spittal and Paton dropping further and further back to try and force things rather than just concentrating on our own game. As many have said, we seemed to shite it from Morton and just couldn’t get over that. In terms of individuals: - Buyabu has a touch of the Gbolys about him - Vale and Devine deserve a start - Butcher is honking - Bair tried hard enough but needs support. That fucking Dougie Imrie song was doing my nut too, I should have stayed in and watched Seinfeld. The other thing re: Bair is that his game isn't being a target man. It's about balls to feet and running in behind which Morton clearly knew so made sure they set up in a way that minimised that. It's wild that Morton doing this seemed to leave us absolutely baffled as to how to break them down. I'm not exactly a Harry Paton fan but last night was as clear an example for why he's not a good fit for that role in that type of game especially when you've got Nicholson sat on the bench. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allroy for Prez Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I’m taking solace that everyone is as raging as me at last nights horror show. Kettlewell might not be going anywhere and if that’s how the board want to play it, so be it, but between 2 league wins in 20, some genuinely brutal signings and now getting absolutely bodied out the cup to championship Morton live on national telly in front of a huge away support, I’m done. Moving forward, there are players on the bench who should be starting in place of continual non performers. Kelly, O’Donnell, Mugabi, Butcher and Paton all need a spell on the sideline, some preferably forever. The Ox, Blaney, Casey, Devine, Nicholson and Vale in or at least given some proper minutes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, wellboy1991 said: Absolutely .. there is only one person inside that 6 yard box who can use his hands, allegedly jump higher than the rest, is a protected species and able to go for any ball. Aye, this was my frustration. All Kelly needs to do is forecefully come out to claim/punch the ball. If anyone is in his path and there's contact, the vast majority if the time the striker will get penalised. If he comes through the Paton/Oakley with conviction last night he'd likely have got a free kick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 We fell into the Shitfest trap last night big time. Was all about patience and keeping the ball, drawing them out and playing through them, or getting the WBs to the by line. Going long/high to Bair rendered us completely ineffectual and we were just ceding pissesion back to them. The secong goal Butcher needs to engage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellboy1991 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 7 minutes ago, Richie said: Aye, this was my frustration. All Kelly needs to do is forecefully come out to claim/punch the ball. If anyone is in his path and there's contact, the vast majority if the time the striker will get penalised. If he comes through the Paton/Oakley with conviction last night he'd likely have got a free kick. Yip without a doubt. You have seen it down south with keepers recently, they get away with murder. Ours is just murder. He honestly is soo weak. Gets tossed about like a rag doll. Then runs about moaning. He should have left in the summer. Has completely sullied any good will left from his early form imo. He will be thought about like Smith. For Wednesday we need to mix it up a bit. Personally I would go for. Oxborough Devine Casey McGinn Blaney Gent Davor Miller Spittal Bair Vale Halliday has a shout to be in for Miller and Buyabu for Gent. However I think he will stick to this 3-4-3, 5-2-2-1, 5-4-1 whatever it is shit. If so then Nicolson or Vale needs to come in for Paton. Devine for SODS and Casey for Butcher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatermass Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I understand fully the financial reasons why Kettlewell is still our manager. If last season we were paying for three management teams at the same time then that is really bad management/luck and that has an effect on any short and long term decision making. He has landed lucky with this chance and been able to navigate through a period that under other circumstances would have likely ended a wee while ago. Come June we will be in a nice position of not paying for any management teams. If Kettlewell’s inconsistent (at best) or very poor win ratio continues, which has been ongoing for nearly five and a half months now, and we choose to offer a new contract then a decision has been made on our footballing ambitions. I’d love for him to turn it around in the next 14 fixtures and have us completely safe by the start of the split but I just can’t see it. Some of that is down to what he has inherited, what he has signed and his own failings in respect to changes/substitutions. If he keeps us up, I think he could walk away without a stain on his record despite some honking recent stats…….but I think his next job would be in the Championship. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellboy1991 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 7 minutes ago, Quatermass said: I understand fully the financial reasons why Kettlewell is still our manager. If last season we were paying for three management teams at the same time then that is really bad management/luck and that has an effect on any short and long term decision making. He has landed lucky with this chance and been able to navigate through a period that under other circumstances would have likely ended a wee while ago. Come June we will be in a nice position of not paying for any management teams. If Kettlewell’s inconsistent (at best) or very poor win ratio continues, which has been ongoing for nearly five and a half months now, and we choose to offer a new contract then a decision has been made on our footballing ambitions. I’d love for him to turn it around in the next 14 fixtures and have us completely safe by the start of the split but I just can’t see it. Some of that is down to what he has inherited, what he has signed and his own failings in respect to changes/substitutions. If he keeps us up, I think he could walk away without a stain on his record despite some honking recent stats…….but I think his next job would be in the Championship. Agree re the above . His next job, could it be a return to County…. In the championship with his bestest mates in football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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