Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

Following on from @Handsome_Devil's point re Jack Ross and Hibs.

Since the start of last season:

Dundee United sacked Jack Ross and sacked his replacement.
St. Johnstone sacked Callum Davidson and sacked his replacement.
Ross County sacked Malky Mackay and sacked his replacement.
Rangers sacked Giovanni Van Bronckhorst and sacked his replacement.
Aberdeen sacked Jim Goodwin and sacked his replacement.
We sacked Graham Alexander and sacked his replacement.

The obvious caveat to that is that Martindale has been at Livi all of that time and look where they are, but looking at that list it basically tells you that the more that managers are sacked, the more that they need to be sacked.

That also shows you that boards across the country are making the wrong appointments time and time again. Chuck into the mix that we either have the board we do just now, or an unknown quantity in a new CEO / Chairman who would be making the decisions. That's why it's a big call and there is a bit of me that does think the "better the devil you know" route might be the most sensible. I would need to be confident about a new manager to think it was worthwhile.

That said, if he does stay, the number of players he would need to sign, as things stand, could have a knock on effect on the club for years to come, so that is also a big consideration to make. 

[Handsome_Devil]

20 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

We sacked Graham Alexander and sacked his replacement.

I did a double take there, it seems absolutely wild given all that's gone on that Alexander was our manager last season.

[Al B]

41 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

That said, if he does stay, the number of players he would need to sign, as things stand, could have a knock on effect on the club for years to come, so that is also a big consideration to make. 

Just as a wee counter to this given I agree with that being the situation, I'd say that it's extremely risky to put those choices in the hands of someone that's just arrived and doesn't really know what we need, or has completely different ideas that don't work with the slim pickin's we have left.

I fully believe the most valuable assets we could have going forward, that have the potential to make the most significant and tangible differences, are stability and longevity. You can't have either of those without riding a few rough patches. Especially when those rough patches still have us knocking on the Top 6 door.

I genuinely think constant new manager ideas are a much bigger cause of the constant rebuilds required (along with their associated costs), than natural player turnover is.

Edited February 16 by Al B

[welldaft]

I think we can all agree that this season has been rather disappointing overall.

You can look at all the different stats and if you want paint either a negative or a positive picture.

We have had a lot of injuries as have quite a few teams to be fair. The player wage budget has been reduced from previous seasons. 

Yet the reality is (positive stat alert) there are only 4 teams in the top flight (the top 4 unsurprisingly) that have lost fewer games than us. Even St Mirren have lost more games. As we know a win and a loss is better than 2 draws and yet what it shows is despite all the issues around defending, goalkeeping, injuries, player recalls we are more often than not a difficult team to beat. It does not feel that way, but yet here we are. 

[capt_oats]

Something else re: Kettlewell is that he's still "only" 39 which is something that I guess gets lost a bit given his time with us and at County.

He was 38 when we appointed him so to put that in context Robinson was 42 when he got the job replacing McGhee. McCall was 46. I think I'm right in saying that the only younger appointments than Kettlewell since I've been going to Fir Park have been McLeish (35) and Davies (34).

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

40 minutes ago, Al B said:

Just as a wee counter to this given I agree with that being the situation, I'd say that it's extremely risky to put those choices in the hands of someone that's just arrived and doesn't really know what we need, or has completely different ideas that don't work with the slim pickin's we have left.

I fully believe the most valuable assets we could have going forward, that have the potential to make the most significant and tangible differences, are stability and longevity. You can't have either of those without riding a few rough patches. Especially when those rough patches still have us knocking on the Top 6 door.

I genuinely think constant new manager ideas are a much bigger cause of the constant rebuilds required (along with their associated costs), than natural player turnover is.

Aye, I'm generally with you there.

This summer, he should have a black canvas in terms of what he wants to bring in and he should be able to hit the ground running in terms of when they sign - late May, early June etc. This summer he was somewhat hamstrung by the fact he had to shift players to get players in and as a result, that would have made a lot about timing. Next season, by my reckoning we only have Blaney here next season who wasn't signed or given a new contract by Kettlewell, so it will definitely be his own team.

There's is, however, a vision I have lingering at the back of my mind, where his new team don't gel as quickly as our impatient support would like in the league cup group section and the atmosphere becomes toxic and people start quoting the 1 win in 19 etc from this season. 

[capt_oats]

1 minute ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Aye, I'm generally with you there.

This summer, he should have a black canvas in terms of what he wants to bring in and he should be able to hit the ground running in terms of when they sign - late May, early June etc. This summer he was somewhat hamstrung by the fact he had to shift players to get players in and as a result, that would have made a lot about timing. Next season, by my reckoning we only have Blaney here next season who wasn't signed or given a new contract by Kettlewell, so it will definitely be his own team.

There's is, however, a vision I have lingering at the back of my mind, where his new team don't gel as quickly as our impatient support would like in the league cup group section and the atmosphere becomes toxic and people start quoting the 1 win in 19 etc from this season. 

Tierney is also contracted for next season.

[Wellwatcher]

I see our allocation for Tynecastle tomorrow has sold out. There will soon be more Well fans at away games than home games

[Busta Nut]

Did Hearts only sell the expensive efforts again? Was there the "cheaper" option?

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

38 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Tierney is also contracted for next season.

Had completely forgotten about him!

[well fan for life]

I suppose Kettlewell's on a bit of a hiding to nothing. Pulled off a miracle last season, got tasked with gutting the squad and got next to f**k all to replace folk that were left. Mainly I'd like the higher up folk at the club to sort out what we're meant to be doing.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, well fan for life said:

I suppose Kettlewell's on a bit of a hiding to nothing. Pulled off a miracle last season, got tasked with gutting the squad and got next to f**k all to replace folk that were left. Mainly I'd like the higher up folk at the club to sort out what we're meant to be doing.

This is kind of where I am as well.

Looking at seasons with Robinson and (regardless of what you thought of him) Alexander both managers seemed to be in lockstep with Burrows. Although Ketts has always been diplomatic with regards his relationship with Weir and McMahon I don't think it's unreasonable to say there doesn't seem to have been the same sort of synergy there given Burrows was pretty much out the door when Hammell was emptied and it's been the shortest of short term thinking ever since.

Tbh I've always wondered to what extent Hammell was a Burrows appointment. Even at the time it didn't feel like an obvious Burrows decision and tbh it had the look of folk on the board trying to flex and clipping Flow's wings a bit after the fall out of the Alexander era. I guess we'll have to wait for the Burrows memoir on that score.

Edited February 16 by capt_oats

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Had completely forgotten about him!

Aye. It's been very much out of sight, out of mind. Although tbf, he's apparently been injured the last while at Walsall. (Hamstring)

Ironically there's probably a spot for him in the team with this 3421 we're using at the moment which there wasn't really before.

[Swello]

1 hour ago, Busta Nut said:

Did Hearts only sell the expensive efforts again? Was there the "cheaper" option?

I've been at every Motherwell game at Tynecastle for years (breaking that run tomorrow though) - and I'm not convinced that cheap option has ever actually existed as something we can actually buy with real money. Maybe 10 years ago..

Edited February 16 by Swello

[Stevie Kirk]

2 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Aye, I'm generally with you there.

This summer, he should have a black canvas in terms of what he wants to bring in and he should be able to hit the ground running in terms of when they sign - late May, early June etc. This summer he was somewhat hamstrung by the fact he had to shift players to get players in and as a result, that would have made a lot about timing. Next season, by my reckoning we only have Blaney here next season who wasn't signed or given a new contract by Kettlewell, so it will definitely be his own team.

There's is, however, a vision I have lingering at the back of my mind, where his new team don't gel as quickly as our impatient support would like in the league cup group section and the atmosphere becomes toxic and people start quoting the 1 win in 19 etc from this season. 

 

[thisGRAEME]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Ironically there's probably a spot for him in the team with this 3421 we're using at the moment which there wasn't really before.

No there isn't.

[Busta Nut]

1 minute ago, thisGRAEME said:

No there isn't.

What did he do to you? 

[Allroy for Prez]

I’d rather Utd had won tonight. Anything to avoid the potential of being relegated by Louis Moult in the play offs.

[capt_oats]

11 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

No there isn't.

Sure there is.

Whether he’s actually good enough is a different question but IMO the position Paton is playing in this current system is a better fit for him than any of Alexander’s 433, Hammell’s 4231 or Kettlewell’s initial 352.

[eliphas]

Like @Busta Nutwith Kelly, @thisGRAEME really has it on record that he doesn't fancy Tierney. Fair enough - everyone has their views which is fine. 

I think Tierney can definitely offer us something, and said the same last time this came up. He's a great option attacking behind the striker which is one of our main plays. But, Kettlewell seems to favour players who can do a couple of jobs...even if they aren't particularly good at either

e.g. Paton can play that attacking role fine but has no real end product, and 'do a job' a bit further back but isn't brilliant at it. Tierney is probably a better attacking option but couldn't really fill in anywhere else and isn't particularly 'robust'. See also - Stuart McKinstry