Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Vietnam91]

1 minute ago, Handsome_Devil said:

You would also assume our wage bill will be substantially lower and free from compensation payments (for now!). And while the cups were disappointing, we did progress beyond the first round exits we supposedly budget for. So aye, while too early to count chickens by any means, a modest operating profit would certainly seem possible.

4 less gaffers and assistants too so that helps.

We’ll probably realise something modest for Sol even though it felt like a mutual.

[capt_oats]

2 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

4 less gaffers and assistants too so that helps.

We’ll probably realise something modest for Sol even though it felt like a mutual.

The fee for Sol is in the 22/23 accounts that were recently published.

[Vietnam91]

1 minute ago, capt_oats said:

The fee for Sol is in the 22/23 accounts that were recently published.

Yeah just stated before when then accounts from from and to and pull a transfer out before that. I’m in A&E at Wishaw with a suspected appendicitis so not functioning 100% 

[Neil86]

Just seen this on twitter, be a laugh at least. 

𝐁𝐑𝐄𝐀𝐊𝐈𝐍𝐆 | Dennis Bergkamp, Dirk Kuyt, Henrik Larsson, Ronald Koeman are looking to BUY a club in England!  

 

The aim is a League One/Two club at this point. Larsson wants to be head coach, Bergkamp will set up the academy, whilst Koeman will also have a role somewhere. 

 

They are working with agent Rob Jansen who confirmed the news to podcast 'Keift Janson Egmond Gjip'!

[Pettigrew]

Do we really have all these fan groups?  People’s Front of Judea anyone…?

[Ron Aldo]

Our reserve team not doing us any favours so far tonight. 

[Handsome_Devil]

7 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

Our reserve team not doing us any favours so far tonight. 

County have looked solid but hard to tell when St Mirren gifted them a goal and been generally miserable. Either way it takes up the pressure on tomorrow.

[Handsome_Devil]

17 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

County have looked solid but hard to tell when St Mirren gifted them a goal and been generally miserable. Either way it takes up the pressure on tomorrow.

Until they absolutely gifted one back. Scott should have won it straight after but produced a horrific attempt.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

1 hour ago, Ron Aldo said:

Our reserve team not doing us any favours so far tonight. 

Happy enough with a draw. Keeps County at bay(ish) and P&B has addled my brain too much to ever properly support St Mirren.

[welldaft]

You got to laugh at their fans comments on the Ross C match thread.

Along the lines of “our inability to beat the lesser teams is costing us dearly”. “We were shite but we were still miles better than a woeful Ross C team”. “Killie are apparently all conquering yet we are only a couple of points of them”

Talk about delusions of grandeur. No doubt they will come to Fir Park and turn into prime Man City. But they were poor tonight and lest they forget they are one of the lesser teams in this league. 

[Busta Nut]

Ach we all have our purple patches. If St Mirren's is coming 6th a couple of times then fair enough. 

[SteelyDosser]

10 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Happy enough with a draw. Keeps County at bay(ish) and P&B has addled my brain too much to ever properly support St Mirren.

Not even against the OF?

[thisGRAEME]

12 hours ago, Pettigrew said:

Do we really have all these fan groups?  People’s Front of Judea anyone…?

Someone probably knows better than me, but I think this is a generational thing? Like, the Bois were the originals, then the next group of teenagers, etc. ? Each their own wee thing, but then a collective together.

[Desp]

@thisGRAEME walking into the end section of the East Stand now he's a hat guy...

[redstarcvedza]

Gillespies butchers also supply speciality pies to Livingston so tonight you can treat yourself to a Chicken Balmoral pie (chicken, haggis and peppercorn sauce). Will hopefully taste all the better with Well victory 

[Handsome_Devil]

1 hour ago, thisGRAEME said:

Someone probably knows better than me, but I think this is a generational thing? Like, the Bois were the originals, then the next group of teenagers, etc. ? Each their own wee thing, but then a collective together.

 

I had the same bemused reaction and for the life of me couldn't tell you if there's a difference between them? And surely the next generation of youths just become the Bois, you're not telling me folk in their 30s are hanging out there? Not to say there's anything wrong with being a 35-year-old ultra per se, but if everyone else in your group is at least 20 years younger eyebrows will be raised!

[dezz]

23 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I just voted against the Well Society losing it's majority shareholding.

I didn't join instantly myself. From memory it was £300 to join in the beginning before they started monthly memberships and the fact that I was a student at the time, coupled with the fact that team was class meant that £300 from any Motherwell budget would be going on away days or euro trips back then. 

If I'm honest, after that, for a few years, I wasn't as interested or engaged in joining, until I did so just before the pandemic.

I'm still very pragmatic about fan ownership - if I think it's the best solution I'll be for it, if I think it's not I'll be against it - but for us, I genuinely think the 'Well Society having a majority shareholding is what is best for the club. Say the club sold it to a wealthy man, with no ulterior motives or red flags. They could run the club successfully for a period of time, but that won't last forever. At that point, they will want to sell the club for the best deal possible and probably won't be concerned who to and us as fans won't have a say in it.

That's what sells it to me - having a say in this investor, the next investor and the one after that. 

Looking at the figures @capt_oats posted of our P&L since being fan owned, it's actually fairly encouraging. Getting to two cup finals in one season and selling David Turnbull does appear to have helped us run for a few years and had we not had to do the structural work and then subsequently fix it, things would be looking very kind on the bank. 

It's really hard to be overly critical of finances, when we have money in the bank and generally remained in the black due to the aforementioned cup finals and player sales, which is actively our model. Not to mention surviving a pandemic and giving free season tickets out the following year.

My obvious concerns around that model going forward are how much we shit the bed in cup competitions and how much Brexit has affected our youth players even reaching the stage where they get to a professional contract for us. Part of me does think that we are seeing Lennon Miller in our first team just now because his Dad was a pro himself and seems to have his head screwed on to advise him on what's best for his career. I reckon most others in his shoes would've taken the McAlear / Leitch / McKinstry route by now. I also have doubts about our ability to "buy to sell" in today's market, given Slattery and Kelly's three year deals look like they will be seen out without any serious interest.

I am definitely of the thought that a hybrid model of the society and outside investment is the best thing going forward. I have serious concerns about growth in the society. In thirteen years, surely there are very fine margins to be gained by new members? I'd imagine just about everyone interested would've signed up now. Are we reliant on current members upping their monthly payment? With the area not being the most affluent and the climate we are in, there might not be the biggest scope for this. I also think in so many ways the horse has bolted in terms of re-engaging disengaged fans. I do also think that it would be a tough sell for someone with no link to the club to invest, without getting the biggest say for it.

Ultimately, if we continue to go down The Well Society route, we might see a drop in our standard of player, we may see us drop divisions and find it tough to come back, but at the end of the day we'll still have the club. As much as it may not appeal to others, that's good enough for me.

 

 

 

I’ve had a go a couple of times over the last week or so to stick my thoughts regarding external investment down in a semi-coherent post but ended up deleting them.

Thankfully @crazylegsjoe_mfc’s post here perfectly sums up my thoughts in a much better way than I could articulate. Interested to see how the vote plays out in the next few days but expect it’ll be a fair majority voting against the Society losing its majority.

[Handsome_Devil]

42 minutes ago, dezz said:

Thankfully @crazylegsjoe_mfc’s post here perfectly sums up my thoughts in a much better way than I could articulate. Interested to see how the vote plays out in the next few days but expect it’ll be a fair majority voting against the Society losing its majority.

I think it'll be close...the wording of the question basically said we know you think that but go on, just have a wee peak at what's in box B and you can always change your mind later...

[capt_oats]

21 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

I've read a few comments on places talking about investments with WS maintaining control. This is the things dreams are made of. Free money almost.

Won't happen.

Aye. I agree that this idea that we're somehow going to stumble upon our very own James Anderson who's just going to underwrite us because he's minted is fanciful but equally, I think it should be possible for us to seek investment on our own terms - it's literally what businesses do.

As an example I noticed that's The Class of 92 announced they're "exploring" investment opportunities for Salford. - https://theathletic.com/5299817/2024/02/26/salford-city-class-of-92-sale-investment/

Granted, the likes of Neville, Beckham et al have a level of wealth and clout that we simply don't but in terms of the actual principle it's exactly the position we're in.

However compare this framing from Nicky Butt with what we heard from McMahon in his post-launch interview:

Quote

“We are backing Salford City with as much commitment and confidence as ever. We have achieved very special things here but there are major opportunities in front of us and we want to make sure we have the right mix of investment and strategic partners to take advantage of those opportunities.

“We had an original 10-year plan and with strong foundations now in place, it was always the intention to explore options for the next phase. That includes potentially bringing in new partners to help us grow the club and best serve the fans and community.”

Link

"Taylor Swift gies some dosh" it is not.

This isn't a criticism of the WS folks as it kind of sounds as if McMahon has gone a bit rogue with this and it's put them on the back foot but in hindsight it would maybe have wise for those behind the "project" to have considered this and had some sort of consultation prior to launch. I mean, maybe they did IDK but it doesn't feel like it.

Similarly, without being wise after the fact, the whole fan-ownership model was probably going to reach a point where there would be a discussion about what would be direction of travel of being a fan-owned club as the football landscape changes/evolves.

Like I say, it'd maybe have been good to have considered red-lines and the like before McMahon decided he was a creative and crack on in the way he did (it's worth remembering that even Weir distanced himself from the video).

Prior to last week the last AGM I'd been to in person was pre-pandemic and the notion of seeking external investment was floated then. IIRC it was a similar sort of vague idea of looking to partner up with individuals to provide support and possibly using the option of a slice of transfer revenues to pay back much in the same way we ended up squaring things with Hutchison and Boyle.

Either way I guess my point is the notion that we might look at external investment thing has been around for a while, the board just didn't make any sort of movement with it and I'm fairly sure McMahon had effectively apologised and said words to the effect of "Sorry, but yeah, we've not done anything about that" at subsequent AGMs.

Why that was, who knows?

Maybe the fact we were cash rich and Scooge McDuck-ing our way through things after the Scott and Turnbull sales meant they considered ourselves to be suitably "de-risked" and just put that side of things on the back burner only to be blindsided by the investment we've seen at peer group clubs and I guess the Pandemic will probably have had an impact in terms of what we were prioritising.

That said, as @thisGRAEME mentioned yesterday, while probably not ideal circumstances (exiting Chairman, interim-CEO etc) it feels like this has given a natural impetus to actually have these conversations.

55 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I think it'll be close...the wording of the question basically said we know you think that but go on, just have a wee peak at what's in box B and you can always change your mind later...

Yeah, I think it really depends on how you approach the question which I'd say is probably open to interpretation. You can either read it (as I did) as a process to establish red-lines as to what our position is in order to look at external investment on our own terms or you can view it the other way which is you'd be happy to consider any and all investment deals that might be tabled.

Edited February 28 by capt_oats

[StAndrew7]

23 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Yeah, I think it really depends on how you approach the question which I'd say is probably open to interpretation. You can either read it (as I did) as a process to establish red-lines as to what our position is in order to look at external investment on our own terms or you can view it the other way which is you'd be happy to consider any and all investment deals that might be tabled.

Therein lies the (granted, relatively small amongst an otherwise excellent communication) problem with the question itself; it's open to interpretation. My understanding from the discussions AGM was that it would set the precedence for negotiations moving forward, like you. However, as it is open to a bit of interpretation, the vote may well be closer than people think, as there is still the option to vote down any potential investment proposal that removes fan ownership after it's been presented.

That, granted, may just mean investors will back out because they think it's a waste of time to put a lot of effort into their due diligence and final offer(s). A bit of a double-edged sword.

Personally, I don't think it'll be close and the vote will be to retain fan ownership; but I guess you just never know?!

Edited February 28 by StAndrew7
Removing my obsessive use of "however".