Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[well fan for life]

7 minutes ago, MurrayWell said:

Anyone going into this without a degree of scepticism hasn't been paying attention to Scottish football over the years. 

Investment could be great, would be more than welcomed if the terms of it are best for the club, infrastructure and community going forward. Important to keep an open mind and consider what folk are willing to bring to the table. 

Some of the rhetoric around this seems to be that we are desperate for investment, I'm not sure that's the case. When the image is painted that clubs really need investment, that's when to be most vigilant of anyone coming in making promises. 

I think we're not desperate for investment, but it'll help us secure things longer term. Unfortunately we can't sell a Turnbull every 6 months so we need to look at other things. However I do wonder what the Well Society's idea would be long term. On Saturday there they had a lot of folk cutting about with flags etc. but there's a ceiling for the number of folk who will join due to the size of our fanbase. Having folk out rattling buckets for contributions isn't going to change much and, at worst, suggests we're really *really* fucked. 

We absolutely should be wary of snatching money. But we should carefully consider offers. Obviously there's going to be ones like the Aussie offer which seemed to come with a million red flags attached. But if it's that some wealthy c**t wants to shoulder a bit of our running costs for a few percent then it's absolutely worth considering. 

If the Well Society have anything about them they'll take the details of this and turn it into an investment for dummies level of summary so that people who aren't clued up on these things can digest it and make a decision. People like me, essentially. 

[Desp]

16 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

But if it's that some wealthy c**t wants to shoulder a bit of our running costs for a few percent then it's absolutely worth considering. 

Surely the first 300,000 questions you ask off the back of this proposal is, on repeat, "why the f**k do you want to do that?  What's in it for you?"

Edited April 4 by Desp

[Handsome_Devil]

33 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

I think we're not desperate for investment, but it'll help us secure things longer term. Unfortunately we can't sell a Turnbull every 6 months so we need to look at other things. However I do wonder what the Well Society's idea would be long term. 

I can understand why the Society went quiet when it did for various reasons but one of the big problems with that was the perception that things aren't going well or we have major issues. We don't, things are - broadly speaking - fine.

Combine that with our governance being neglected to nothing and the JM/DW approach and we've got ourselves into a muddle over very little imho. 

Wildly changing course in a panic rather than attempting to slightly adjust would be a big mistake.

[Swello]

1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said:

All shareholders will get the proposals so Society members will get everything official for sure.

That's a big assumption. Again - I *think* there is a distinction between being a member/shareholder of the Well Society and legally possessing shares in the Football Club [/kettlewell] and everything that comes with that. Being a member of a body that owns shares does not equal owning them yourself. 

36 minutes ago, Desp said:

Surely the first 300,000 questions you ask off the back of this proposal is, on repeat, "why the f**k do you want to do that?  What's in it for you?"

This. Even after years, I have no idea what's in it for the Americans at the Dundee Clubs or Hibs - and they've got more growth potential than us. With Fergus McCann in the old days - it was pretty clear that he was taking on a basket case, giving it a lick of paint and selling it on - but with normal top flight clubs, no-one really knows what they are getting out of it other than debt and a chance to play Football Manager for real. From our point of view, there's no massively improved TV rights coming in the medium term and anything that involves making money on moving us to Ravenscraig would give me the biggest amount of fear...

[StAndrew7]

11 minutes ago, Swello said:

That's a big assumption. Again - I *think* there is a distinction between being a member/shareholder of the Well Society and legally possessing shares in the Football Club [/kettlewell] and everything that comes with that. Being a member of a body that owns shares does not equal owning them yourself. 

It's what was said at the AGM, from what I remember; WS members would receive the same information as the other shareholders. How that's shared may vary, based on if it's submitted to the WS Board and then disseminated to the membership or otherwise. Personally, if I were a member, I'd be demanding to see all of the relevant documentation, either sent directly or at a meeting/webinar type event.

12 minutes ago, Swello said:

From our point of view, there's no massively improved TV rights coming in the medium term and anything that involves making money on moving us to Ravenscraig would give me the biggest amount of fear...

I'm afraid that's going to happen, no matter who's in charge/the majority owner of the club. Fir Park is falling apart and we're going to continue to sink thousands into it to keep it going, when we should be selling the land and moving elsewhere.

That, for me, is actually the biggest opportunity any new investor has to sell their vision for the club. Build a new stadium around the community that we're a part of and all of its needs. Rent out medical facilities to the NHS during the week, have charities and local organisations set up in the offices, local MP/MSPs running their clinics there, all of that.

That's the bit that actually excites me about the future of the club, rather than giving me the fear, personally; but only if it's done properly and ensures we're not in any significant debt or are tied into some sort of horrendous agreement on funding etc.

Edited April 4 by StAndrew7

[Handsome_Devil]

1 hour ago, Swello said:

That's a big assumption. Again - I *think* there is a distinction between being a member/shareholder of the Well Society and legally possessing shares in the Football Club [/kettlewell] and everything that comes with that. Being a member of a body that owns shares does not equal owning them yourself. 

You're right there's a distinction but it's not really a big assumption. I will, for example, get the offer as an independent shareholder, as will plenty of others. The Society will get these details as a shareholder and there's no reason the board won't then pass this on to everyone when the information will kick around anyway. The official info won't be confidential by any means and they'd just look daft.

[santheman]

1 hour ago, StAndrew7 said:

It's what was said at the AGM, from what I remember; WS members would receive the same information as the other shareholders. How that's shared may vary, based on if it's submitted to the WS Board and then disseminated to the membership or otherwise. Personally, if I were a member, I'd be demanding to see all of the relevant documentation, either sent directly or at a meeting/webinar type event.

I'm afraid that's going to happen, no matter who's in charge/the majority owner of the club. Fir Park is falling apart and we're going to continue to sink thousands into it to keep it going, when we should be selling the land and moving elsewhere.

That, for me, is actually the biggest opportunity any new investor has to sell their vision for the club. Build a new stadium around the community that we're a part of and all of its needs. Rent out medical facilities to the NHS during the week, have charities and local organisations set up in the offices, local MP/MSPs running their clinics there, all of that.

That's the bit that actually excites me about the future of the club, rather than giving me the fear, personally; but only if it's done properly and ensures we're not in any significant debt or are tied into some sort of horrendous agreement on funding etc.

I've always thought we missed the bus a bit with Ravenscraig.

I imagined a new stadium linked to the Ravenscraig facility with franchises like MCDs KFC etc based there  generating rental income and giving community groups NL Council and the NHS office facilities like you say. A fully integrated community and sports facility in partnership with the different bodies.

You can always dream.

[redstarcvedza]

9 minutes ago, santheman said:

I've always thought we missed the bus a bit with Ravenscraig.

I imagined a new stadium linked to the Ravenscraig facility with franchises like MCDs KFC etc based there  generating rental income and giving community groups NL Council and the NHS office facilities like you say. A fully integrated community and sports facility in partnership with the different bodies.

You can always dream.

KFC boneless banquet followed by a visit to the NHS cholesterol clinic followed by Motherwell game to give you heart palpitations...fully integrated indeed.

[santheman]

4 minutes ago, redstarcvedza said:

KFC boneless banquet followed by a visit to the NHS cholesterol clinic followed by Motherwell game to give you heart palpitations...fully integrated indeed.

A perfect day out imo

[Desp]

18 minutes ago, santheman said:

I've always thought we missed the bus a bit with Ravenscraig.

I dunno. There's still that massive bit of space next to where the College sits.  I know they're building a road through the bit further up but there's still loads of room left, IMO.

That would be alright for me.  Would be on the Fir Park side of the land and you could stoat up the new back road from the Century in 10/15 minutes on a Saturday!

[thisGRAEME]

3 minutes ago, Desp said:

you could stoat up the new back road from the Century in 10/15 minutes on a Saturday!

In there by 3:30pm, easy!

[ropy]

1 hour ago, redstarcvedza said:

KFC boneless banquet followed by a visit to the NHS cholesterol clinic followed by Motherwell game to give you heart palpitations...fully integrated indeed.

Room for a pop up pakora bar on match days? 

[thisGRAEME]

Ketts burner account: Confirmed active.

[Handsome_Devil]

18 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Ketts burner account: Confirmed active.

Can you imagine interviewing Kettlewell for a job, you'd hire him just for some peace and quiet.

Wonder if he actually has something against Grant Russell (they surely didn't overlap?) or if he was just taking the chance to suck up to Caldwell?

[rowsdower]

The sheer amout of fucking words if SK and Grant Russell were in the same place for longer than 5 minutes.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

10 hours ago, well fan for life said:

Just because folk pay 10 quid a month doesn't mean they should immediately be informed of everything the club does. Not sure there's much merit in giving the details of a relatively complex financial arrangement that publicly names the interested party out to a load of people who have absolutely no idea how this stuff works. 

For me the club have done the correct thing here. There's an interested party, the initial details have been deemed acceptable enough to fully explore so they are doing that before putting it out to the shareholders including the Well Society. All this coming off the back of the exploratory vote that said fans would consider outside investment.

It isn't about Well Society members being informed it is about fans as a whole being informed.

Buying a football club is a public proposition. And it comes with a profile. The club are putting out statements about movign forward with this then everyone should be coming out into the open. 

You say it is a relatively complex financial agreement with absolutely no idea if it is or not. You are out here defending the position of the club by speculating what may or may nnot be happening. There are leaks you can think are right but it would be much easier for everyone if all the details were in the open. And as has been noted all the detail have to come out before anythig happens for the Well Society vote so it makes no sense to hold them back.

 

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

6 hours ago, StAndrew7 said:

I'm afraid that's going to happen, no matter who's in charge/the majority owner of the club. Fir Park is falling apart and we're going to continue to sink thousands into it to keep it going, when we should be selling the land and moving elsewhere.

I don't think that is true at all.

Alan Burrows would ot have spent £1m on levelling the pitch and alterations to the Hunter stand if he could not see a long term future at Fir Park.

At some point we will have to do something about the main stand but that does not necessarily involve moving from Fir Park.

[ropy]

We could just knock the main stand down, get some portocabins in for offices, create a safe standing space and hire the 100 club for hospitality.  Our maintenance costs would shrink.  The pitch would get more sunlight.  What’s not to like?

[capt_oats]

Good write up from McGarry about the investment stuff in his Herald mail out just there.

21 hours ago, eliphas said:

I'm sure @JayMFC can clear up a few of these points @capt_oats

But yeah, I guess I posted about this before like 500 pages ago  probably, but a wee explainer about the governance structure and who can do what would be lovely. Quicker the WS website is back the better. 

I do expect an chairman and exec board to be able to do stuff without seeking majority shareholder confirmation as long as they are kept updated along the way. But it's the not knowing which leaves us wondering...obvious statement but that's the gap here.

Tbf, I realise that there's stuff that can't be commented on publicly and I wasn't expecting or asking for any sort of clarifications from @JayMFC. He's got more than enough to be doing at the moment than replying to idiots like me running their jaws on the internet.

18 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

Quite funny in hindsight that the whole video thing was based on the community around the club and in large part, that we're a fan owned endeavour.

"Look at us! We're a unique thing! Want to remove that? Come on down!".

There's a heavy Withnail & I energy about the whole thing.

Edited April 4 by capt_oats

[SteelyDosser]

59 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

It isn't about Well Society members being informed it is about fans as a whole being informed.

Buying a football club is a public proposition. And it comes with a profile. The club are putting out statements about movign forward with this then everyone should be coming out into the open. 

You say it is a relatively complex financial agreement with absolutely no idea if it is or not. You are out here defending the position of the club by speculating what may or may nnot be happening. There are leaks you can think are right but it would be much easier for everyone if all the details were in the open. And as has been noted all the detail have to come out before anythig happens for the Well Society vote so it makes no sense to hold them back.

 

Any information release could breach financial trading laws, especially if those interested have other investments.

How this offer is kept under wraps while the WS decides could be a bit of an issue too

Edited April 4 by SteelyDosser