Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[SteelyDosser]

12 hours ago, capt_oats said:

 

I know there's been this argument from more Twitter-based United fans that it was worth it because they derailed our season 

Genuinely sad for some to think this.

I personally was not a fan of being the club that drove the decisive nail in Utd and livis coffin the past 2 seasons.

 

[David1979]

I thought I'd share a few reflections on my decision-making process for the Well Society board before I finalise my selections.

The first thing I've noticed is that many people are basing their decisions on what individual candidates contribute in terms of work experience, career history, and so forth.

For me, that isn't a primary concern.

As we've already observed, we can engage those individuals and their skillsets through the workstreams and various other projects. We don't need someone on the board just to make use of their skills or experience.

If we're honest, if it were about experience and contributions, then individuals like Douglas Dickie and Tom Feely should be an automatic choice every single time. Both are immensely experienced with skillsets beneficial to the board.

No, for me there is one criterion that outweighs all others.

When there's a tough decision to be made, such as the Barmack situation, where the executive board might be leaning in a direction that doesn't quite align with fan views or interests, can those on the Society board be trusted to stand firm and vote appropriately? Or will they be influenced by a brief visit to the "big" board's offices for a cup of tea and a biscuit?

I don't want someone on the board because they can enhance marketing, financial stewardship, or anything similar.

I want someone on the board because they truly understand fan ownership.

I'm observing many candidates who are undoubtedly qualified in their day jobs and career experiences, and I've seen many of them actively engaging on the forums and social media over the past few weeks. However, when we were all debating with Erik at 11pm on a Friday night, tirelessly posting counterpoints, researching different business models, meticulously reviewing each line and the phrasing of various plans and heads of terms, and working on documents to chart a new course for the Well Society in the face of allegations of lacking experience or credibility compared to the Netflix chap, many of these individuals were notably absent.

Of course, that could be due to circumstance. Were they too busy? Had family issues? All of which is perfectly understandable. But, maybe it's because they simply did not think Erik's proposal was all that problematic?

Everyone will make their choices based on their own criteria. But for me, it doesn't really boil down to what a candidate has achieved in their career, what experience they have, or what they "bring to the table" in that respect. We have multiple workstreams for that.

I'm more interested in what they contributed during perhaps the most critical non-footballing issue we've faced as a club in recent times. And what their actions would be should a situation like that arise again. 

There is already one individual who was very vocal about how he felt during that time, and for that reason he will never get my vote. I'm sure he may well be a perfectly nice guy, but on this particular issue I don't feel I can ever trust him, no matter what other life skills he may provide. If he's really behind the idea of fan ownership then he can sign up for a workstream. He doesn't need a board vote.

Give me someone who has spent their entire working life on a building site and doesn't even own a shirt and tie, but who will do everything in their power to protect the club from the likes of Erik Barmack over someone like a Douglas Dickie.

Those who were part of that process know who they are, and those particular individuals will have my vote this time around. They stood up and were counted when they could have very easily just sat back and did nothing. 

There's one individual in particular who did more than most, and that particular candidate will be the first name I add to my vote later today. 

Edited August 16 by David1979

[Busta Nut]

10 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

Honestly, just play him at #9, give him some love, he'll be this seasons 10 goal striker and we'll be fine.

This is where it is. All the talk of playing off a striker etc frightens me a bit. Get him right up there and let him do his thing he hopefully still can do. 

[well fan for life]

10 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

I just love him man. 

Honestly, just play him at #9, give him some love, he'll be this seasons 10 goal striker and we'll be fine.

How can anyone remain angry after these videos. He's in his own wee world, just him and his chickens. 

[Handsome_Devil]

18 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

This is where it is. All the talk of playing off a striker etc frightens me a bit. Get him right up there and let him do his thing he hopefully still can do. 

I'd be thrilled if he did that but until last season in the Championship, of Watt's entire career there's been about five months when he was a regular scorer and the rest when he wasn't. 

Ofc maybe SK will work the same magic Alexander briefly managed, maybe Watt himself will willingly change roles again, but for me the balance of probability suggests expecting a bucket of goals is optimistic.

[MurrayWell]

I've always thought Tony Watt seemed like a bit of a dafty at times, but not a bad guy. Can't say I fully understood the "hate" directed towards him after he left. Throughout his career he's moved for more cash, and there is nothing wrong with that, so it shouldn't have come as a surprise. He really didn't have to justify that decision on a video for fans, but fair enough. We obviously all had a good chuckle at him being involved the Dundee United relegation,  which again there is nothing wrong with, but beyond that I can't say I was fussed about the whole thing. 

If you're an adult and fall for any footballer giving it the "I don't want to be anywhere else"/ badge kissing patter, then a former Netflix chief may wish to speak to you about a possible investment opportunity. 

I'm quite pleased to see Tony Watt back, hopefully he hits similar form to the first time round. Man moving to a new job for a larger salary and better terms really isn't controversial. It's not like be agreed terms of a contract renewal and then backed out or refused to play. 

        

[Handsome_Devil]

3 minutes ago, MurrayWell said:

 It's not like be agreed terms of a contract renewal and then backed out or refused to play.       

No and there were rumours at the time which if true would certainly soften his departure... caveats aplenty of course.

[Busta Nut]

5 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I'd be thrilled if he did that but until last season in the Championship, of Watt's entire career there's been about five months when he was a regular scorer and the rest when he wasn't. 

Ofc maybe SK will work the same magic Alexander briefly managed, maybe Watt himself will willingly change roles again, but for me the balance of probability suggests expecting a bucket of goals is optimistic.

I'm not suggesting a bucket of goals. He's never really scored goals. If he plays the way he did he'd bring more of our other players into it I reckon. Still has to up top though. Not on the left. Not behind the strikers. 

Still need a midfielder IMO too, despite having a million of them. 

[wellboy1991]

1 minute ago, Busta Nut said:

I'm not suggesting a bucket of goals. He's never really scored goals. If he plays the way he did he'd bring more of our other players into it I reckon. Still has to up top though. Not on the left. Not behind the strikers. 

Still need a midfielder IMO too, despite having a million of them. 

Problem for me is who can he bring into it? He could be a good foil for big Moses, letting him knock them in from 2 yards. 

However I am in full agreement that we need another midfielder. An attack minded midfielder with pace who can ‘break the lines’ (w**k speak). A midfield of Halliday, Davor & Miller won’t give that. In fairness neither will  Slattery or Paton or even I think Nicholson. 

Drop Halliday and play Miller deeper where he is best. Might have a chance then. Currently with this set up and players I personally think we have none. 

[Handsome_Devil]

19 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

I'm not suggesting a bucket of goals. He's never really scored goals. If he plays the way he did he'd bring more of our other players into it I reckon. Still has to up top though. Not on the left. Not behind the strikers. 

Still need a midfielder IMO too, despite having a million of them. 

Fair enough, then we're into the splitting hairs of yards areas...but if we're playing 3-5-2, there's no way he's not the guy who comes deeper when needed though as Robinson, Ebiye or Stama are probably poorer at that and will instead play on the last man. Similarly if we're doing 3-6-1, I'd be fine with him being the one but only if we have two viable attacking midfielders - so that'll need to wait a bit at least...

I also said in a different chat the other day it's amazing how we can sign a million identical average midfielders yet still find ourselves short...I'd definitely still like another attacking mid but if there's no exits - and Miller apart I don't think any are viable - the squad is clearly close to full already.

[joewarkfanclub]

Re Watt. The manner of his departure was regretable. I wasnt really annoyed at him for signing the PCA, thats what happens when one of your players does well and another club can afford to offer them more money. It was the way it seemed that he manipulated his early release only days or weeks after standing on the East Stand wall slapping the badge.

Of course, with the benefit of hindsight, not all of this would appear to have been on the bold Tony, and given SODs banishment for speaking his mind in the dressing room, its not too hard to think that Watt and Alexander had words hastening his departure. Certainly thats what others have alluded to on here and elsewhere.

That in mind, his return doesnt phase me and Im happy to welcome him back. But only if he is true to his word and is willing to "graft" for the team.

For me he has never been a goalscorer. His biggest attribute was always holding the ball up, bringing others into play, winning fouls, getting us up the park. Which is why it all went spectacularly wrong for GA once Watt was gone. The fact that he scored a few (and crackers at that) was just the icing on the cake.

Given where we are right now, and the limitations of our team/squad, a fit and motivated Tony Watt should be an asset and improve our chances of scoring a goal. 

The fact he is in the final year of his United contract and SK seems to be pretty good at handling big weirdos should ensure we get that.

Edited August 16 by joewarkfanclub

[capt_oats]

31 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Fair enough, then we're into the splitting hairs of yards areas...but if we're playing 3-5-2, there's no way he's not the guy who comes deeper when needed though as Robinson, Ebiye or Stama are probably poorer at that and will instead play on the last man. Similarly if we're doing 3-6-1, I'd be fine with him being the one but only if we have two viable attacking midfielders - so that'll need to wait a bit at least...

I also said in a different chat the other day it's amazing how we can sign a million identical average midfielders yet still find ourselves short...I'd definitely still like another attacking mid but if there's no exits - and Miller apart I don't think any are viable - the squad is clearly close to full already.

Well...

Quote

Stuart Kettlewell says Motherwell’s transfer business may not be over after the signing of Tony Watt this week.

"Kettlewell explained: “I would still like to see if we can make one or two more additions if at all possible. It is still about being creative to make sure we, one, have a balance. We know we are missing a lot players for a substantial amount of time. I speak about never ripping up your plan but we’ve had to deviate slightly by the nature of this."

[Cedrics Mighty Well Army]

Could Watt play in the role Paton had when the latter was linking up well with Wilson before his injury?

[Vietnam91]

Interesting to see where Ketts goes with these two:

Loans (higher standard than we may afford but no resale value, will Everton trip pay off)

Free agent on a year stopgap (how we have approached it in the past)

Transfer fee's (surely not when we have so many projected to return in October and despite the Bair money)

 

Tony angled for a move early because 25 weeks x £3k? reported uplift in wages = £75k-ish.

Would we have preferred it wasn't so public with "come and get me" headlines, sure. I don't get why many hold football players to a higher standard than they do with their own career progression.

Would we have achieved more with him from January till the summer? Undoubtedly .... despite Alexander. He would have been off in the summer however and couldn't have influenced the Sligo debacle.

We'd definitely had a different dynamic going into that summer, possibly a higher league place to make up for the reported transfer fee (£130k sticks in my mind) and possibly Joe Efford would have continued in his career never even hearing of ML1.

Reading that Courier article the angle is United were annoyed he didn't adhere to instructions during his month off. As covered he could have been a convenient cudgel but in Goodwin's defence players would have probably been weighed before their holidays and there will have been beep test records to compare over the prior 2.5 years. When you read the comments of the Dundee United fans who dropped in here, in their games to date unfit and lethargic was mentioned.

Tony is the sort of guy that needs the new club, fresh start approach because the longer he is somewhere, the more the bad habits manifest

[camer0n_mcd]

Including Wells and Wilson we have a squad of 26 senior players, adding any more to that and we've probably got a squad that's 'too big'. It goes back to the point that @Vietnam91 (I think..?) made a while back, how much of the Bair money will we end up spunking up the wall on short term solutions ti the current injury crisis.

[Vietnam91]

2 minutes ago, camer0n_mcd said:

Including Wells and Wilson we have a squad of 26 senior players, adding any more to that and we've probably got a squad that's 'too big'. It goes back to the point that @Vietnam91 (I think..?) made a while back, how much of the Bair money will we end up spunking up the wall on short term solutions ti the current injury crisis.

Without the injuries we could have got to deadline day and been selective and moved on someone we had been keeping tabs on if things were right. It now feels we're going to get there and be reactive.

Being reactive gets you Oli Shaw and grumblings at AGMS's.

[MurrayWell]

Tony Watt saying in the media stuff that he's looking to stay with us long-term. Wouldn't be surprised if he signs a PCA with us in January if things go well. 

[Pull My Strings]

18 hours ago, CoF said:

He's such an odd character  - football is full of unlikeable folk who you just know are c***s in real life, but he just doesn't see like one of them. He's not a thug on the pitch, tries to do a wee bit for charity now and then and use his profile to promote good causes. But for some reason there always seems to be some vague and unspecified beef which follows him from club to club. 

Fwiw, from a United fan's perspective,  I agree with this entirely.  He's  not a bad guy and if you give him love then he will give it back. He's clearly a very talented player but just not reliable enough for a lot of people. A fully focused Tony Watt would be an asset for most top flight teams but the work, or luck, required to get that degree of focus is just too much for most teams to afford.

I think last season was ideal for him. He was so much better than most other players in the division that he was able to look good, and achieve results, without having to work too hard. When motivation dipped he had the carrot and acclaim from being in the top team in the division to spur him on. It would be a much harder shift in the Premiership with United or Motherwell. Personally,  I think he would have been better dropping back down into the championship with Partick, where he would complement Brian Graham quite nicely. Not sure he's good enough to justify the concessions required at Motherwell but time will tell.

Genuinely wish him well but glad he's no longer our problem to worry about.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Cannot believe people think the Big Dog should be at Partick Thistle ffs. It was bad enough when yous sent him to Paisley.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we've signed him and I do think he is a likeable, if a bit daft, guy but from that video:

"Do I regret that the Motherwell fans hated me after it? Yes, but I don't know if there was a different way to go about it".

I have to say Tony, that not sticking your fingers in your ears in front of the Motherwell fans when you scored against them subsequently, would probably have a different way to go about it.