Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Stevie Kirk]

So what’s next lads. Luc Nijholt to Hearts?

 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Moses will have a field day against Celtic 

[Swello]

47 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Moses will have a field day against Celtic 

Come on now - that's petty as f**k, there's a huge financial disparity - it's not really fair to enjoy that.

Spoiler

 

 

[Handsome_Devil]

22 minutes ago, Swello said:

Come on now - that's petty as f**k, there's a huge financial disparity - it's not really fair to enjoy that.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I always get nervous they'll lose by eight in this scenario but Dortmund have jogged it in since half-time so it's s lucky escape.

[StAndrew7]

5 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I always get nervous they'll lose by eight in this scenario but Dortmund have jogged it in since half-time so it's s lucky escape.

... There's time yet.

[Gianfranco]

Some of the Facebook replies to the resignation are unhinged man. I think some of those people live under a rock. 
 

I always like the 7 up of gr8 night puns when an arse cheek gets pumped. 

[Handsome_Devil]

12 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

... There's time yet.

Never in doubt.

[RandomGuy.]

I have to say, I enjoy how whenever we're mentioned on steelmenonline theres always someone whos claiming we're skint.

[Vietnam91]

3 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

You can add all the caveats you like but you can't stop me.

I'll try my best:

• Any discussion of where we play is always going to be emotive.

• This document is designed to stimulate debate or or open eyes to elements maybe not considered. It is for that reason certain elements are not costed because viability would have to be determined first.

• The embedded videos convey points much more succinctly than I could trying to describe them.

• The main thing I hope will resonate is the every extra 1,000 additional seats for away fans thing. It has the potential to put a massive dent in the repayments due to how skewed our game due to the OF. Perhaps something overlooked by some of the support.

• It should encourage further research by all parties.

• If the contents forms the nucleus of further discussion or a new direction then it has achieved its goal.

• Projections are made using information available and referenced where necessary.

• This is by no means a masterplan or being actively considered.

 

Our New Home v1.1.pptx

 

 

NB. I would add the club would also have to contribute to the construction cost from revenues. In this example I have allowed for the club increasing season tickets from 4k-4.5k to 6k (as per Our Club, Our Future), keeping all increased hospitality (which I think could be substantial) and finally the ability to make additional revenues outwith match-days due to the flexibility of the venue and additional sub letting of space and faciltiies.

Edited Tuesday at 22:08 by Vietnam91

[JamesP_81]

Just got in from work , turned the tv on and this is the first thing I see. 

[Archie McSquackle]

7 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

Stick it behind the college and stick a big spooky tunnel from Orbiston street under the railway line to get there please.

They put that in last year.

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/ravenscraig-project-prepares-for-the-largest-bridge-lift-in-europe

As well as moving the Ford showroom to beside Dalzell Drive to let them extend Airbles Road. It'll be a super-highway to the new Fir Park.

[Handsome_Devil]

8 hours ago, Vietnam91 said:

I'll try my best:

• Any discussion of where we play is always going to be emotive.

Thanks for that, interesting read.

The options are fascinating and it's clear we're going to be paying well into six figures just to be fully briefed on what's feasible.

I'll happily admit the technical details are way beyond my ken but my biggest concern about moving would not be taking on a gigantic mortgage for decades but committing cash - in many cases large amounts up front - yet effectively still being at the mercy of so many external stakeholders. Things change, promises are broken, funding dries up etc and if it goes wrong we're in bother far beyond the usual level of Hammell-in-charge-bottom-in-February.

Edit to add from the BBC:

"The full project, including work around the site, is estimated to cost £95m and Dundee say that “a cost well in excess of seven figures” has already been spent on the plans and proposal."

So Dundee have spent over a million quid and nearly nine years to still be well away from building permission which will put them on the hook for tens of millions. Not saying that'll happen to us - the locations are obviously very different - but it shows that for all there are some slam dunk no brainer moves like St Mirren, there are also those where borrowing the money and sitting tight might be preferable if your starting point makes it an option.

Edited Wednesday at 06:12 by Handsome_Devil

[Cedrics Mighty Well Army]

11 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I always get nervous they'll lose by eight in this scenario but Dortmund have jogged it in since half-time so it's s lucky escape.

Thousands of Israelis surrounded the Signal Iduna Park at half-time demanding a cease-fire.

 

[Cedrics Mighty Well Army]

So, Dickie will continue supporting from the stands?

Will he pay in or give it "Do you know who I am/was"?

[Handsome_Devil]

46 minutes ago, Cedrics Mighty Well Army said:

So, Dickie will continue supporting from the stands?

Will he pay in or give it "Do you know who I am/was"?

I like to think him and McMahon will be turning up in balaclavas and waving pyro.

[Vietnam91]

4 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Thanks for that, interesting read.

The options are fascinating and it's clear we're going to be paying well into six figures just to be fully briefed on what's feasible.

I'll happily admit the technical details are way beyond my ken but my biggest concern about moving would not be taking on a gigantic mortgage for decades but committing cash - in many cases large amounts up front - yet effectively still being at the mercy of so many external stakeholders. Things change, promises are broken, funding dries up etc and if it goes wrong we're in bother far beyond the usual level of Hammell-in-charge-bottom-in-February.

Edit to add from the BBC:

"The full project, including work around the site, is estimated to cost £95m and Dundee say that “a cost well in excess of seven figures” has already been spent on the plans and proposal."

So Dundee have spent over a million quid and nearly nine years to still be well away from building permission which will put them on the hook for tens of millions. Not saying that'll happen to us - the locations are obviously very different - but it shows that for all there are some slam dunk no brainer moves like St Mirren, there are also those where borrowing the money and sitting tight might be preferable if your starting point makes it an option.

100%, some consultancy firms and architects make a nice living from their imagings and we'd surely need glossy fly-bys as the first key to unlocking grants and government funding. Also the nature of these things, they inevitably are massively amended over time. The first ever one at Ravenscraig had a dry ski slope on the bing at the Jerviston side ... just a bit amateur. The council have actually published one of those addressing the town centre (https://www.northlanarkshire.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-06/Town Action Plan Motherwell.pdf):

 

For context, the white building on the far left currently houses McDonalds. This visualisation seems to be from standing outside the Horseshoe bar.

I don't know how a club of our means could take on any undertaking without a commercial mortgage to take chunks out of it every year without one of us getting a Euromillions rollover.

Relegation would be a significant factor for the club with a new stadium as it would be today with Fir Park, both would need cloth cutting. I would hope the ancillary uses of the building, incorporated at the design phase could be a stable income stream to weather what we all hope would be a blip regardless of what happens on the pitch.

Dundee is greenbelt land and ours is Brownfield which back in the early 2000's NLC envisaged would be choked with houses and other redevelopments by today. There were forces at play in other nearby council's who threw the odd grenade into the mix via their proxy's. So the council would you think be behind it. The have also lost the use of the concert hall due to that concrete cancer thing.

The stuff in that presentation, if even partially carried out is a mammoth undertaking. Questions arise if any ancillary uses are outsourced or managed in house. Some aspects are natural. The club already has a commercial kitchen, feeds the players and caters for function and events outside matchdays so it would be a natural extension to make that run seven days a week. However, does the club have the inclination or desire to run a subscription based gym or manage office lets or would it partner with companies like Nuffield Health or Regus where they either come on board at the funding phase and commit to the build cost or negotiate a multi year lease.

Fir Park has a footprint of just under three hectares (just over seven acres). That includes both astro's that I'm confident the council and community would demand are retained for the use of Knowetop. There are a host of re-zoning issues, local objections, demolition costs before any site would be useable. We're not getting competing supermarkets bidding for the land money.

 

[Handsome_Devil]

4 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

 There are a host of re-zoning issues, local objections, demolition costs before any site would be useable. We're not getting competing supermarkets bidding for the land money.

Indeed. If I were a betting man, I would say the vague coffee room plan will be to hope Lennon Miller is the new Ian St John.

Hearts apparently paid £21m for their Main Stand and while we obviously want revenue generating potential, our specs will be nothing like their 7,000 seats with hotel etc. So selling Miller for £4-5m plus borrowing the same and some concerted fundraising probably has us at the 'viable' point. We then need to decide how far to push the boat for a little better/bigger.

[Cedrics Mighty Well Army]

I remember arriving in Motherwell on a v. OF day only to be told by PC Gibbon (the long arm of the law) I couldn't walk through Brandon Parade with my colours on.

I was totally lost - I knew no other way.

[Cedrics Mighty Well Army]

A bit of fun shamelessly nicked from the Granuaid. Select a nostalgic 5-a-side team from players throughout the clubs history.

Not just your or the crowd's favourite, but players who would be suited to that type of game.

I just need to figure out who to drop from the Tennent's 6s.

[Vietnam91]

2 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Indeed. If I were a betting man, I would say the vague coffee room plan will be to hope Lennon Miller is the new Ian St John.

Hearts apparently paid £21m for their Main Stand and while we obviously want revenue generating potential, our specs will be nothing like their 7,000 seats with hotel etc. So selling Miller for £4-5m plus borrowing the same and some concerted fundraising probably has us at the 'viable' point. We then need to decide how far to push the boat for a little better/bigger.

I suppose we're in a different position to Hearts. They had three other developed stands in the a city with some of the highest land values in the country, they made their fork in the road decision only in the last 15 years, not when those three stands were developed in the 90's as they were seen as cost effective stop gaps by Mercer who has aspirations of an out of town/shared stadium with Hibs. Their main stand also didn't have the same issues ours does as it has a reasonably large plaza/pedestrian space in front of it.

Issue for me is FP is limiting in all aspects, maintenance, accommodation, ancillary uses. I love the place but I know there has to be an evolvement into widening our revenue streams to continue and ensure we're as competitive on the pitch. Meat and two veg hospitality and the accompanying mindset has to evolve.

The question has to be if we decide to do something with the POD as it stands, would that money be better and wiser spent as a fraction of new purpose built home with means to generate additional money. Also the 12-18 months to either upgrade or demolish and rebuild the POD has the added extra whammy reducing our hospitality income massively and the players would probably have to change in a rejigged gym space in the South (and lose out on all those seats either side of the last row of stairs like Covid). Home support could be accommodated within the Cooper and Hunter but increasing season ticket holders to 6k as per the WS plans would be on hold.

Maybe someone who works in the construction, estimating world can advise, why £12m panned buildings skyrocket to £21m. Is it all extra's, unforeseen costs, price of materials jumping from estimate till realisation, contractors underbidding to win the contract. It's not just Tynecastle, it seems every large development is plagued by these (Edinburgh Trams & Scottish Parliament).

It's why I cited the Millennium Stadium (now Principality) in Cardiff. It was designed and built under budget by the firm which morphed and merged into what is now Populous. It always wound me up at the time that three quarters of Hampden and that stadium cost roughly the same amount of money. Something that hits home stand at the very back of the arc behind the goals but will not be as much of an issue in a months time.