Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Best he played for us was as a 10, in a 4-2-3-1, playing off Watt...

Cheers. I thought that was the case.

[Desp]

I still find the criticism of O'Donnell extremely weird.  I thought it was pretty much a given that he's a standard, good on his day Scottish Premiership full-back.  By definition, he'll be good in some games and not so good in others.  From the two league games so far, you can look at the basic stats and say, 'one penalty given away, one own goal scored'.  However, I think both were unlucky. For the penalty, he's trying to block a shot from a distance and it hits his outstretched arm.  Harsh, but a penalty it today's game.  The own goal is down to two men in front of him both missing it and it hits off him.  Just unlucky.  It appears we are down the opposite route of when Darren Fletcher played for Scotland. "Well he needs to absolutely run riot for Scotland because he plays for Man Utd".  Now a section of Motherwell fans seem to think, "well, he plays for Scotland so needs to be outstanding in every game fior Motherwell".  If there's genuine criticism to be dished out, by all means do it, but I just don't see it.  I just find it all very weird that *he* is the guy appearing to be singled out, of all the players currently in the XI.  

TL:DR version below;

11 hours ago, mwellhighland said:

 anyone calling for Grimshaw is having a laugh imo

 

[capt_oats]

On the SOD chat, anyone who's blaming him for the OG is at it. The ball clears 2 Motherwell heads and deflects off him with a St Johnstone forward behind that he has to deal with.

Defensively I think he was fine, the clearance he made at the back post was an excellent bit of defending. However I don't know if in a broader sense he's just uncomfortable with what he's being asked to do or being hung out to dry by the tactics or if it was just a natural result of the team still being a work in progress but it felt like we were seeing turnovers of possession when he was on the ball but again, he's far from the only one in our XI where that was the case and in this essay I will show...he was on the ball a lot more than others in the team.

To that point @Desp's post above is very much a concise version of where I am. Could he have been better? Absolutely. It doesn't stop it being weird that he's become so a sort of lightning rod for people getting bent out of shape.

Ultimately, I don't think our performance on Sunday was much different to any other time we've went away to Perth recently, it was bitty, scrappy...attritional. A lot of that is down to the way St Johnstone play and they're very good at it. We're not the only team who find it "a difficult place to go" and equally there were plenty instances where Saints forward passes were running straight through to Kelly or in the case of Liam Craig put a diagonal straight out the park.

Anyway, according to WhoScored? SOD had more touches of the ball (74), made more interceptions (5) and attempted more passes (58) than anyone else on the park:

Edited August 10, 2021 by capt_oats

[well fan for life]

Even if Grimshaw was great he's been out with glandular fever for about a year. I'm not expecting him back fit for another number of months if that.

SOD's fine. A serviceable right back for us. Some of the takes around his performances in the cup were absolutely daft. The guy had about 10 days off and wasn't fit.

[Swello]

Hateley's Law states: In any given Motherwell team, one player must always be deemed "shite"

Also, I fear that Grimmy is about to be subject to Dom's Law: The less appearances a player makes, the better they become.

 

[Doctor Manhattan]

3 hours ago, Antiochas III said:

The analytics show O'Donnell was one of our best players v St Johnstone.   

I almost miss the good old days, where you’d shout encouragement and abuse alternately for 90 minutes once a week (always on a Saturday afternoon), and “analytics” consisted of a ten minute discussion in the pub afterwards about which player was the biggest donkey that week. (On the rare occasions when the highlights were on the telly, that discussion would be revisited towards the end of the evening, only with more drunken swearing.) 

Life was simpler then. </YerDaMode>

[Guest superward]

SOD is broadly fine. But he needs played in the right way. He never has been or never will be someone with electric pace taking it past players himself. 

Defensively he does make some mistakes but the majority of the time he doesn't. Certainly a lot less than that other 3 currently

Attacking wise he's best when he's got someone in front of him making a decent run or coming short inside from midfield he can play a pass off and overlap. Otherwise he ends up taking on a pass that is too difficult or trying to get up the field himself. Which most of the time he fails on the pass or is stuck up the pitch if we lose the ball.

He looks a bit ungainly running nowadays which doesn't help the overall vibe that he gives out to be honest either.

Edited August 10, 2021 by superward

[dezz]

32 minutes ago, Swello said:

Hateley's Law states: In any given Motherwell team, one player must always be deemed "shite"

I think most of us had Lawless or Lamie pegged as this seasons boo boy target. Judging from Motherwell Twitter it seems SOD is making a strong late run for the accolade though.

On new arrivals, with the English lower leagues now started and the Premiership kicking off next week, it should now be pretty clear which players are surplus to requirements at their current clubs. Wonder if we'll see any movement before the Dundee game this weekend. 

[dezz]

6 minutes ago, superward said:

He looks a bit ungainly running nowadays which doesn't help the overall vibe that he gives out to be honest either

This is definitely a thing. The way he moves is quite odd, not very 'fluid' is maybe the best way I can describe it, but it definitely impacts my view of his performance when you see him looking all arthritic trundling up and down the right hand side. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by dezz

[Guest superward]

Thing is, he's not even 30 yet. I keep forgetting that. 

A lot of wasted energy in his running style. Someone get Tom McKean over for a few sessions.

Edited August 10, 2021 by superward

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Clubs having to apply for away fans is a bit of a pisstake, isn't it? It's not Dundee's fault obviously but it's going to get fucking annoying being left in limbo about what you're doing on Saturday every second week.

[Phillips455]

1 minute ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Clubs having to apply for away fans is a bit of a pisstake, isn't it? It's not Dundee's fault obviously but it's going to get fucking annoying being left in limbo about what you're doing on Saturday every second week.

Its a bit more complicated. DUndee only has enough allowance for 5000 fans at this moment and this means there is no way to segregate away fans like they usually would (unlike at fir park where the South stand is basically the away stand).

In order to get their main stand for the game they have to apply for it from their local council like we have. After that it should be easier for following away fans. It's just our luck that we are involved in this transiston period from partially open to fully open. Just look at Hearts who are not getting any away tickets for the cletic game despite it being "full Capacity".

[YassinMoutaouakil]

2 minutes ago, Phillips455 said:

Its a bit more complicated. DUndee only has enough allowance for 5000 fans at this moment and this means there is no way to segregate away fans like they usually would (unlike at fir park where the South stand is basically the away stand).

In order to get their main stand for the game they have to apply for it from their local council like we have. After that it should be easier for following away fans. It's just our luck that we are involved in this transiston period from partially open to fully open. Just look at Hearts who are not getting any away tickets for the cletic game despite it being "full Capacity".

Ah that does clear things up a bit. Even before Covid it feels like less and less grounds were just letting you rock up and #PATG on the day so it's not exactly the end of the world but it does feel like another set of hoops to jump through.

[Ron Aldo]

When it comes to SOD, rightly or wrongly his downfall is that he's an international defender who has turned in a number of average (at best) performances for us.

He's had a few good performances for Scotland against far better opposition than he plays against domestically. That, for me, is where the frustration lies - we see what he's capable of when playing for Scotland in terms of keeping it simple and doing his job to good effect against, generally, better players/teams. Yet when he plays for us, lapses of concentration and basic mistakes are far too common for my liking.

[Guest superward]

1 minute ago, Ron Aldo said:

When it comes to SOD, rightly or wrongly his downfall is that he's an international defender who has turned in a number of average (at best) performances for us.

He's had a few good performances for Scotland against far better opposition than he plays against domestically. That, for me, is where the frustration lies - we see what he's capable of when playing for Scotland in terms of keeping it simple and doing his job to good effect against, generally, better players/teams. Yet when he plays for us, lapses of concentration and basic mistakes are far too common for my liking.

Part of the reason he plays well for Scotland (when he does) is that he's surrounded by better players demanding the ball off him and making runs to pull players or track players. 

He's also had some absolute stinkers for the national team akin to some that we've seen for us. 

Im not an uber fan but I generally think he does 'ok'

[Antiochas III]

2 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

When it comes to SOD, rightly or wrongly his downfall is that he's an international defender who has turned in a number of average (at best) performances for us.

He's had a few good performances for Scotland against far better opposition than he plays against domestically. That, for me, is where the frustration lies - we see what he's capable of when playing for Scotland in terms of keeping it simple and doing his job to good effect against, generally, better players/teams. Yet when he plays for us, lapses of concentration and basic mistakes are far too common for my liking.

He also has either Robertson or Tierney to pass to when he does his cross field ball.  Not whatever player we have on the left at that time. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I don't think I'll ever stop being gutted for him that that shot at Wembley didn't go in

[welldaft]

On the SODs chat. I thought he had a very decent game v Hibs the previous weekend.  One of our better performers on the day. He should have hit the target with his attempt at goal but that apart he defended well and was good on the ball. 

The worst performer on the park on Sunday was Donnelly. Probably because he is still nowhere near fully fit, but he needs to up his game or I will be in two minds as to whether he gives way or Maguire should we get another 1st team / starting midfielder in b4 window closes. Ordinarily I would have said Maguire to step out but….

Still in two minds over Woolery. I want to like him and he will stand his ground but his decision making has not been all that good in the games I have attended / watched on TV. 

I hope we can get Robbie Gott in but like most u would need to think Salford would be favourites based on salary and location. 
 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

Our fans are just so fickle in nature in general.

I've never been under any illusions that Grimshaw has limits as a footballer. However, one thing I didn't get last year was how, despite being a popular right-back through the second half of the 18/19 season, where we performed well and basically the entire 19/20 season, where we finished 3rd, he had two or three bad games at the start of last season and suddenly everyone had written him off.

I've no issue with SOD. He is a very good Scottish Premiership level right-back and a definite upgrade on Grimshaw, who himself, as I say, was a decent right back for us in a spell where we performed well.

Hopefully he is allowed to grow into the role as captain.

Since Las left we have had a bad run of luck with captains. McHugh seemed the ideal candidate until he himself admitted he wasn't up to it. Hartley did too, until he couldn't do enough to get in to the team for a lot of his tenure at captain. Although, not 100% a role model etc, Gallagher was again the obvious candidate in last season's squad until the gun got put to his head and he was arguing with fans on Facebook of a Saturday evening. Hopefully, SOD can grow into the role and by a bit of reverse psychology where he perhaps wasn't fancied as a captain, he maybe suceeds at it.

When Robinson first came in, he basically eradicated the "jobs for the boys" thing that people often complained about as one of his first acts. Punted Faddy, Skippy and Pearo, moved Hammell, Las and McManus to coaching roles. Whilst I was fully supportive of the move at the time and the freshen up was definitely required, we have definitely struggled for leaders on the pitch since then.

The "Scottish International" thing reminds me of how I now retrospectively feel I was overly critical of McManus at Motherwell. Did he perform like a £1.5m,  3 times SPL winner, with 30 odd Scotland caps? No. Did he perform like a solid Motherwell-level centre half for most of the time? Yes. 

[Onthefringes]

2 hours ago, Swello said:

Hateley's Law states: In any given Motherwell team, one player must always be deemed "shite"

Also, I fear that Grimmy is about to be subject to Dom's Law: The less appearances a player makes, the better they become.

 

I don’t buy that at all. We certainly have missed his energy that pushed us up the park more so than we’re capable of just now.

Filled in at right back with relative success, I wouldn’t be surprised if Alexander sees him returning in a midfield role…