Desp Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Aye, I think it's going to take a fair amount of cash for us to part with Carson when it leaves us with a day to get a replacement (f**k going the rest of the season with Griffiths in goals). I think MFC wouldn't even start a conversation unless Celtic are willing to, at least, treble their original offer. You'd think there would be a shitload of players sitting on benches in England that could come to Celtic for a few months if all they need is a back-up goalie. I'm surprised they haven't went for someone like Danny Ward at Liverpool (who's got international experience and knows the game up here) or as someone else said - Boruc. A very cunty move from Celtic, but sadly nobody is really surprised. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 A horrible, horrible, shower of b*****ds, they Parkhead stigs are....but we all knew that anyway. Burrows, should tell them to get themselves to f**k, as impolitely as he can bring himself to be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, Casagolda said: However Trevor Carson’s obviously worth a lot more to us than that- that combined with the fact he’s contracted to 2020 and the amount of money we’ve already pocketed this season from the sales of Johnson, Heneghan and Moult plus the cup run mean we're in a pretty strong bargaining position here. I know 500k is always a lot of money to us - but Carson (like Randolph and Ruddy before him) is worth some points to us every season - and I can't help but look at a Tangerine example of what happens if you sell the family silver without a decent replacement plan. I also look at the state of us when we sold Marvin Johnson at an overly late stage in the window. I think we currently do the Moneyball as well as anyone at our level and I'm all for it - but there needs to be more to it than just that - a lot of us (myself included) treat the transfer stuff as the most important thing now. If the club are serious about building a squad, then we need to look at the wider picture (as I'm sure they are doing right now at Fir Park). As for Carson - I'd be showing him the Celtic highlights reel of Jonny Hayes, Nadir Ciftci, Scott Allan and Ryan Christie.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsr Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 When's the last time we had a good season with a crap-to-average keeper? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 The last time we finished 2nd I guess - but that was despite having no decent keeper and your point is a good one. As the opposite to strikers, where we seem to have been able to find a constant stream of good ones over the years, keeper has been a difficult position for us since Sieb Dykstra left not just recently - in almost any other position, I'd be less bothered - but with GK, it's a far bigger gamble. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, Swello said: I know 500k is always a lot of money to us - but Carson (like Randolph and Ruddy before him) is worth some points to us every season - and I can't help but look at a Tangerine example of what happens if you sell the family silver without a decent replacement plan. I also look at the state of us when we sold Marvin Johnson at an overly late stage in the window. I think we currently do the Moneyball as well as anyone at our level and I'm all for it - but there needs to be more to it than just that - a lot of us (myself included) treat the transfer stuff as the most important thing now. If the club are serious about building a squad, then we need to look at the wider picture (as I'm sure they are doing right now at Fir Park). As for Carson - I'd be showing him the Celtic highlights reel of Jonny Hayes, Nadir Ciftci, Scott Allan and Ryan Christie.... I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that with the model we have a rough timeline in place. We know who our sellable assets are and the manager and club along with the player know roughly when we'll be looking to cash in. And everyone's on board with that. It's up to the club to stick to that though. The key part in circumstances like this is being able to say "No" without everyone kicking off and losing their shit. I don't think any of us will be surprised to hear Cadden (and probably Kipré) being talked up by everyone at the club as soon as this window SLAMS SHUT. It'll be Campbell the season after that, then it's a case of where we are with guys like Turnbull, Livingstone, MacLean, Semple etc along with whoever we've made low-risk investments in. One thing around the whole #Pete6 thing that was overlooked a bit was...we've just given a 2.5 year deal to a 29 year old. That's not a signing that's been made with a view to selling for profit. It's almost certainly a signing that's been made in order to create a solid core/spine to the side. I'd like to think that given he's a similar age Carson was recruited with a view to being part of that core as well. If we weren't planning on Carson moving and have no succession plan in place then it seems a huge risk to punt him even if Celtic are chapping the door. As it stands we've made our money from Moult, Heneghan and Johnson this season so, as Robinson said the other week, along with the money from the LC run we've no real incentive to sell unless we're getting offered stupid money. Ultimately no one's going to kid themselves that Celtic can't afford our asking price it's a question of whether they actually want to pay that for a stop gap solution. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casagolda Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 38 minutes ago, Swello said: I know 500k is always a lot of money to us - but Carson (like Randolph and Ruddy before him) is worth some points to us every season - and I can't help but look at a Tangerine example of what happens if you sell the family silver without a decent replacement plan. I also look at the state of us when we sold Marvin Johnson at an overly late stage in the window. I think we currently do the Moneyball as well as anyone at our level and I'm all for it - but there needs to be more to it than just that - a lot of us (myself included) treat the transfer stuff as the most important thing now. If the club are serious about building a squad, then we need to look at the wider picture (as I'm sure they are doing right now at Fir Park). As for Carson - I'd be showing him the Celtic highlights reel of Jonny Hayes, Nadir Ciftci, Scott Allan and Ryan Christie.... I’m not disagreeing with any of that tbh, merely pointing out we’re not and probably ever will be in a position where that sort of bid won’t be worth considering. To be fair I have sympathy with the club on this one, this is probably one scenario they weren’t expecting and probably don’t have a contingency plan in place for like they would if it was Kipre, Cadden etc. I mean Darren Randolph is now a 5m pound keeper, yet we didn’t attract a single bid for him during his 3 years at Fir Park. I can’t imagine when the club invested in Carson this summer they were expecting to sell him for 40-50 times what they paid for him, which makes this all the more difficult. As for Carson himself, he’s a 29 year old football league journeyman keeper. If Celtic wave a 3 year contract on 5k a week in his face you won’t see him for dust IMHO. I wouldn’t even blame him, it’s potentially a life changing move for him and his family. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisGRAEME Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Drag it out to the end of the window and delay every moment, then don't give them him please and thank you. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 17 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said: Drag it out to the end of the window and delay every moment, then don't give them him please and thank you. Given his Staunchness, Carson would probably be up for that plan.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 30 minutes ago, Casagolda said: I’m not disagreeing with any of that tbh, merely pointing out we’re not and probably ever will be in a position where that sort of bid won’t be worth considering. To be fair I have sympathy with the club on this one, this is probably one scenario they weren’t expecting and probably don’t have a contingency plan in place for like they would if it was Kipre, Cadden etc. I mean Darren Randolph is now a 5m pound keeper, yet we didn’t attract a single bid for him during his 3 years at Fir Park. I can’t imagine when the club invested in Carson this summer they were expecting to sell him for 40-50 times what they paid for him, which makes this all the more difficult. As for Carson himself, he’s a 29 year old football league journeyman keeper. If Celtic wave a 3 year contract on 5k a week in his face you won’t see him for dust IMHO. I wouldn’t even blame him, it’s potentially a life changing move for him and his family. Tbh that's probably the reason why the move won't happen. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Swello said: As for Carson - I'd be showing him the Celtic highlights reel of Jonny Hayes, Nadir Ciftci, Scott Allan and Ryan Christie.... Somewhat prescient: Quote Carson said: “You can see Ciftci’s quality, it’s definitely there, but I think confidence and form is a massive thing. “Sometimes, as a goalkeeper, if you make a mistake it’s on your mind going into the next game, and it can be the same with a striker if they haven’t scored.“I have spoken to him at length about his time at Celtic and Plymouth and he just said he hasn’t felt at home. “But he gets the feeling now similar to what he had at Dundee United where he felt loved.” Source: Plymouth Herald Also: we're apparently valuing him at £750k. Robinson pre-match: Edited January 30, 2018 by capt_oats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Robinson is correct when it comes to command of area and handling. Good old fashioned if I can punch I can catch keeper. Best I've seen at that side of keeping - that includes Randolph. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del_Superwell Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 According to the Sun, yes sadly that rag, they claim Celtic have been put off the 750k valuation of Carson and now moving on to other targets. That's good enough for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Smashing (if true). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellView Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 It looks like the deal is dead. We can pontificate as much as we like. The man is looking at a substantial increase in wage, a potential league title and Scottish cup medal, and a serious chance of being number one for his country. As a professional footballer, the wage increase alone should be the incentive. We have a much vaunted business model, and we are entitled to profit. However, we do need to balance that against the implied promises we make to players. More importantly, we need to eradicate the club debt asap. I am of the opinion we are clear of auto relegation worries. If you gave me a choice of 500k or possible top six, it would be the former. A singular unexpected transfer windfall would raise the same as the share sale. Bird in the hand. But it seems to be a moot point as Celtic apparently have walked away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellView Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Drowned out in the Carson noise, I thought we were looking for a left sided player this window? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 29 minutes ago, WellView said: Drowned out in the Carson noise, I thought we were looking for a left sided player this window? Robinson mentioned it in his presser today - so we are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 7 hours ago, Swello said: I know 500k is always a lot of money to us - but Carson (like Randolph and Ruddy before him) is worth some points to us every season - and I can't help but look at a Tangerine example of what happens if you sell the family silver without a decent replacement plan. I also look at the state of us when we sold Marvin Johnson at an overly late stage in the window. I think we currently do the Moneyball as well as anyone at our level and I'm all for it - but there needs to be more to it than just that - a lot of us (myself included) treat the transfer stuff as the most important thing now. If the club are serious about building a squad, then we need to look at the wider picture (as I'm sure they are doing right now at Fir Park). As for Carson - I'd be showing him the Celtic highlights reel of Jonny Hayes, Nadir Ciftci, Scott Allan and Ryan Christie.... Pretty much agree with all of this except the bold part. For me, the whole club's raison d'etre has been become the 'lower league gem' philosophy to the detriment of everything else. We generally have around 75% of the squad who are English lower league implants, the player turn over season on season is huge and has been for a number of seasons, youth development has been stymied, long term team building is more or less non existent, we have 4 players in our squad who started the first game of last season and one of them is about to retire. The football played at Fir Park over the past few seasons, from a quality view point, a performance view point, an entertainment view point, has been dire. For me, a big reason for that is because the whole focus of the club has moved away from football towards finance. Our club is packed full of non entities in the hope that one or two of them will come good season on season. That's fine, except for one thing - the football stinks. Everyone accepts we have to sell to keep the lights on but when it comes down to it we are supposed to be a football club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 hour ago, WellView said: It looks like the deal is dead. But it seems to be a moot point as Celtic apparently have walked away. Good. They can get tae f*ck. They really are a chancing bunch. £200k for one of the leagues best keepers and quite probably a future NI International keeper. We should go back and offer £200k for Dembele. See how they like it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellView Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 25 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said: Pretty much agree with all of this except the bold part. For me, the whole club's raison d'etre has been become the 'lower league gem' philosophy to the detriment of everything else. We generally have around 75% of the squad who are English lower league implants, the player turn over season on season is huge and has been for a number of seasons, youth development has been stymied, long term team building is more or less non existent, we have 4 players in our squad who started the first game of last season and one of them is about to retire. The football played at Fir Park over the past few seasons, from a quality view point, a performance view point, an entertainment view point, has been dire. For me, a big reason for that is because the whole focus of the club has moved away from football towards finance. Our club is packed full of non entities in the hope that one or two of them will come good season on season. That's fine, except for one thing - the football stinks. Everyone accepts we have to sell to keep the lights on but when it comes down to it we are supposed to be a football club. Drivel. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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