Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

6 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Just a hunch but I suspect data was why we signed Lamie too - block after block, would win headers etc. There was a run at the start of last season (I think) where despite him looking dodgy as f**k the win or not ratio with him in the team or out was remarkable.

I guess it just shows the limitations of this approach - winning 99% of challenges is great but if the other 1% is a game-costing unforced error what's the point...one for the scientists to ponder.

I think it kind of speaks to the point @crazylegsjoe_mfc made in terms of Sol having been signed on the basis of what Alexander was looking for and how he wanted to set up his defence. Essentially he just wanted them to defend the box, win headers etc which was broadly in their wheelhouse through that period.

Bearing in mind it's really only been under Alexander that Lamie has shone there's maybe an argument that he's more suited to being used in a quite specific way. He was fucking mince under Robinson and has hardly been stellar under Hammell.

Here's Lamie's playing history under Alexander from when he took over through to the end of last season:

Apps: 51  W 23, D 12, L 16 = 45% win

[Handsome_Devil]

29 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

I think it kind of speaks to the point @crazylegsjoe_mfc made in terms of Sol having been signed on the basis of what Alexander was looking for and how he wanted to set up his defence. Essentially he just wanted them to defend the box, win headers etc which was broadly in their wheelhouse through that period.

Bearing in mind it's really only been under Alexander that Lamie has shone there's maybe an argument that he's more suited to being used in a quite specific way. He was fucking mince under Robinson and has hardly been stellar under Hammell.

Here's Lamie's playing history under Alexander from when he took over through to the end of last season:

Apps: 51  W 23, D 12, L 16 = 45% win

Aye, it's no coincidence Lamie's start (thrown in at LB in a team trying to play football) made him look awful and GA (you do nothing but defend and heavily protected) made him look good.

The collapse in SSJ more interesting given he was shite for months under GA's protective regime after a start which was, if not spectacular, certainly solid enough for us.

To me this falls back to Hammell though - if you have dodgy CBs and can't replace them, why persist in an XI that scarcely even tries to protect them?

Edited January 18, 2023 by Handsome_Devil

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I'm pretty sure Hammell lives in East Kilbride. He'll be a marked man walking the streets after those comments.

[well fan for life]

1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I'm pretty sure Hammell lives in East Kilbride. He'll be a marked man walking the streets after those comments.

If it's where he's always stayed he's well within Glasgow boundaries. 

_{Source: A guy I went to school with lived across the road from him. And I used to serve him all the time in Somerfield.} 

[Ceiling Granny]

2 hours ago, well fan for life said:

I think the problem with Johansen is when he makes an arse of it he makes a complete arse of it. 

I’ve not read through the whole chat, but I was talking about exactly this at the weekend. We’re somehow not shipping loads of goals, but a high percentage of the ones we are conceding are ridiculous. 

[well fan for life]

Just now, Ceiling Granny said:

I’ve not read through the whole chat, but I was talking about exactly this at the weekend. We’re somehow not shipping loads of goals, but a high percentage of the ones we are conceding are ridiculous. 

Shocking you've not studied all 2231 pages before posting. But I'll sum it up:

• Legally the play off videos must show up every couple of months in here.
• Chris Cadden's transatlantic tax fraud makes him unpopular.
• Pakora is class. 

But on your actual point, aye. It's crazy. It's not like the end of McGhee the second time around where we conceded ~20 goals in 4 games but we just make the type of errors you'd expect to find in schoolboy fitba that is costing us points every week. @Neil86 hit the nail on the head about his positional sense (or lack thereof). The Hibs game was an abomination in that respect, and he just followed straight on last week for the equaliser. 

[Al B]

Sol is a decent defender unless he has to move, in which case it always looks like he's not sure where to go, and even if he did he doesn't seem fit or quick enough to get there.

I suppose that's like saying someone is a decent keeper as long as he doesn't have to use his hands, but then we've signed a few of them in the past so 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

One of the wildest things about Lamie is that when we signed him, it was advertised he could play centre-back, left-back or left-wing back. I really can't imagine him playing left wing-back.

[well fan for life]

11 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

One of the wildest things about Lamie is that when we signed him, it was advertised he could play centre-back, left-back or left-wing back. I really can't imagine him playing left wing-back.

I would genuinely like to see this for a laugh.

[rowsdower]

Clubs like our ous are successfull when we are able to take these flawed players and play to their strengths.  I imagine a smart and experienced manager could take the raw attributes of the likes of Sol and Shields, and get something out of it. Or at least find ways to mitigate their weak points. 

Both Lamie and Sol have shown in flashes wby they could be decent top level players, but their inability to use the ball when they have it (something they both don't seem to accept) and their tendency for a brain fart really cries out for either an experienced CB beside them, or a midfielder that can protect them. Then they can go about winning headers and tackles all day.

[thisGRAEME]

12 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

One of the wildest things about Lamie is that when we signed him, it was advertised he could play centre-back, left-back or left-wing back. I really can't imagine him playing left wing-back.

Not against it as it keeps him away from centre-half atm.

My overwhelming feeling is that we're not going down because of a terrible decision somewhere, but more death by a thousand cuts at this point, a whole series of bad choices for a 12 month period which is now leaving us in a spot with no left back, no functioning centre halfs, and three passable right backs.

[rowsdower]

2 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

I would genuinely like to see this for a laugh.

We saw it when he first signed, it wasn't funny. 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

1 minute ago, rowsdower said:

We saw it when he first signed, it wasn't funny. 

He played left in a four - don't think we ever got him wing-back in a 3-5-2. Although with Bevis at RWB against Hibs in the cup, it was probably Alexander's next logical step.

[Mr. Brightside]

I met Stevie Hammell in Game in the EK town centre years ago. So I think that is all the evidence we need to confirm that he lives in recently crowned Southside of Glasgow area East Kilbride.

[Swello]

9 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Not against it as it keeps him away from centre-half atm.

My overwhelming feeling is that we're not going down because of a terrible decision somewhere, but more death by a thousand cuts at this point, a whole series of bad choices for a 12 month period which is now leaving us in a spot with no left back, no functioning centre halfs, and three passable right backs.

Yep - we live and die by smart recruitment and it *really* hasn't been that over the past year. 

The uncertainty over the previous managers position as 2022 progressed probably led to the abysmal summer transfer window and now we are rummaging in the  January sales hoping to save ourselves.

[ropy]

1 hour ago, Mr. Brightside said:

I met Stevie Hammell in Game in the EK town centre years ago. So I think that is all the evidence we need to confirm that he lives in recently crowned Southside of Glasgow area East Kilbride.

Lower Glasgow Southside 

[capt_oats]

Oh...I'm sensing he's not coming back. 

Absolutely gone at him thanking the groundsmen first like...

Edited January 18, 2023 by capt_oats

[ropy]

I was a serviceable left back in my Muirhouse Primary days, won both the Hunter and Colville Cups

[Ceiling Granny]

3 hours ago, well fan for life said:

Shocking you've not studied all 2231 pages before posting. But I'll sum it up:

• Legally the play off videos must show up every couple of months in here.
• Chris Cadden's transatlantic tax fraud makes him unpopular.
• Pakora is class. 

But on your actual point, aye. It's crazy. It's not like the end of McGhee the second time around where we conceded ~20 goals in 4 games but we just make the type of errors you'd expect to find in schoolboy fitba that is costing us points every week. @Neil86 hit the nail on the head about his positional sense (or lack thereof). The Hibs game was an abomination in that respect, and he just followed straight on last week for the equaliser. 

Thanks for the summary, I’m all in on the pakora

[JamesP_81]

F*ck it who needs defenders anyway.  Reckon we should go 2-3-5 , front five rotating after every goal . If we're going down with a narrow gd margin might as well lose games 8-7. If Sol and Lamie are going to have 1 clanger every game then at least that's a lower proportion of our goals given away by them , defence sorted