Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Very much this.

I don't want to go all 'I pay my monthly tenner, tell me everything' but ultimately the club relies on keeping fans engaged and part of that is knowing how (some) decisions are made and judging them.

When SOD - presumably on a wage reflecting his status as a Scotland starter when he signed - extends, people are totally entitled to ask just how that came about. 

Ditto Efford...say we hit a sticky patch next season and the club want fans to back SK - it's entirely reasonable to want to know if he volunteered a contract to a player like that or not.

Aye, I've no real desire to give "let me speak to the manager" vibes and there's definitely no need to go into granular detail but y'know...just acknowledge it.

The club have contract expirations on player profiles on their website, we know when SOD, McGinn, Efford and Mahon's deals were up, we also know that the club haven't made any announcements to update that.

I get that none of the players probably warrant a 'ONE MORE YEAR' news story with accompanying photoshoot but similarly going in the "if you saw Joe Efford's contract expired May 2023...no you didn't" direction raises the question of what we're actually doing when it comes to comms.

As I said yesterday, this is a list that we publish on an annual basis and it's a pretty straightforward template:

• Players currently under contract for 23/24
• Players who have activated options/signed new contracts
• Players out of contract the club are currently in discussion with
• Players out of contract leaving on expiry
• Contracted players who have been released.

That's it. Add in some quotes from the manager, thank everyone for their time and press publish.

Quite why we've decided to deviate from that and obfuscate a routine news story IDK. (Actually I'd guess @Al B has the answer above).

Edited June 1, 2023 by capt_oats

[eliphas]

Acht, it is a bit odd the way it was worded but I'm not sure there's dark arts at work really here tricking us into not noticing extensions.

I'm less concerned about the extensions bit, been told that way is fine for me personally, and more concerned about knowing who has been offered terms. Purely out of nosiness. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by eliphas

[well fan for life]

Tbf we probably got the contracts signed and emailed the head of media to get something put out about it forgetting that they don't currently exist.

[Handsome_Devil]

18 minutes ago, eliphas said:

Acht, it is a bit odd the way it was worded but I'm not sure there's dark arts at work really here tricking us into not noticing extensions.

I'm certain it's not dark arts at work, it's more that given our recent efforts I don't like anything that projects the image of FP being a chaotic bin fire.

I'm not really into management BS but it seems obvious that if you want to be well-run and engaging on big things, being well-run and engaging on small things is a good place to start.

[eliphas]

Fair dos. I'm not that fussed about it I guess, similar to the season ticket video stuff previously. But appreciate others are.

Since coming off social media (2 months without Instagram now...thanks lads it's been tough) thinking about it I've maybe taken a step back a bit and more happy to just find out things when I find them out than I was previously. Half the reason for coming off social media to be fair. 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

The clubs communications are woeful if you ask me.

The season ticket prices are obviously rising significantly next season and on the group chat I'm in with 'Well fans, the incentive to buy a season ticket has been questioned. If you don't get the early bird, a season ticket costs £395 for the John Hunter stand, where we all sit. This season it has cost £21 to get into a game. The season ticket works out at £20.79 per game - meaning you'd only need to miss one game to lose money. Several of my mates are now questioning (or refusing) their renewals due to this. Has anyone ever made a bulk purchase of that amount to save 21p a time?

I sent the club an e-mail a few weeks ago, asking them to clarify what the gate prices are going to be next season, as the saving at face value really isn't worth it. I got absolutely no reply or acknowledgement. That's one failure in communications.

Secondly, I've heard murmurs that the gate prices may be going up. If that's the case, why not shout it from the rooftops to aid your season ticket campaign? Say a gate price is going from £21 to £25 for example - why not publicise that the savings you'd make compared to paying at the gate? Second failure in communications. 

If the gate prices aren't going up - then the strategy of the season ticket prices really needs questioned.

As much as we all have an emotional attachment to Motherwell, at the end of the day, it's still a business and we are still customers. They should be marketing the value of the actual product, rather than trying to patrionise us, during a cost of living crisis, with an image of the Ravenscraig whilst asking for more money.

I don't want or deserve to know the inner workings of the club as a 'Well Society member, but I at least would like when I ask a question about the bread and butter, to at least be dignified with a response.

That's a wild sidetrack from players being offered contract renewals, but talk of shite comms from the club clearly triggered me 

 

[capt_oats]

17 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I'm certain it's not dark arts at work, it's more that given our recent efforts I don't like anything that projects the image of FP being a chaotic bin fire.

I'm not really into management BS but it seems obvious that if you want to be well-run and engaging on big things, being well-run and engaging on small things is a good place to start.

Exactly this.

I get that people's mileage may vary when it came to Grant but between him and Flow we'd been consistently good at communicating to stakeholders.

Since both have left and their positions remain vacant we increasingly seem to be tripping ourselves up on a variety of subjects - see @crazylegsjoe_mfc's post above.

It definitely doesn't mean that there are dark arts at work but cack-handedly publishing a straightforward list while failing to acknowledge that 4 playing staff have extended their stays becomes amplified in comparison.

[MurrayWell]

Absolutely not ITK here, but could it be there has been no fanfare around some of the extensions because we are actively working with players to get them new clubs and their contracts have appearance/ other clauses? 

Just thinking back to when we signed McGinn, most within Scottish football found it odd that Hibs announced an extension just before he left and joined us. Perhaps Kettlewell wouldn't have been for the contract renewal clauses on current deals. 

[Al B]

4 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I'm certain it's not dark arts at work, it's more that given our recent efforts I don't like anything that projects the image of FP being a chaotic bin fire.

I'm not really into management BS but it seems obvious that if you want to be well-run and engaging on big things, being well-run and engaging on small things is a good place to start.

On a (sort-of) related point raised here by our very own handsome devil regarding big things/small things, I think a lot of the "don't know what you've got til it's gone" chat from 6 months or so ago, was said in relation to the BIG things, but what we're experiencing now is the extent to just how much that applies with the small things.

Very much in the way that when you work in an office and Carol retires and no-one's all that fussed because they are thinking about Carol's job title, and a new person will fill that job title. And then it gets to Friday and someone asks where the cakes are...."aw that was Carol that used to bring them". Someone asks why there's no Christmas Tree in the office this year...."Carol used to do that". How come we've not had a payday pub lunch for ages?...."Carol used to sort that".

Long and the short of it is, I think there's a few people within Fir Park getting a bit of a fright as they realise just how much certain ex employees used to do (not necessarily just 'flow) that they'd never even considered. It's probably fair to say that it might be part of the reason why they are struggling to get someone else to fill the posts for the money they are offering (....sorry....you want me to what??...).

It feels like we're trying to replace a person rather than fill a position, and that's just not possible when the person did things that weren't in the remit of the position.

It's actually quite annoying because it's a great opportunity to establish a fresh structure from scratch, where each role is properly defined and it's responsibilities are relevant and appropriate. That way it's easy to recruit top class people because their remit falls within that of the industry, and every task within the club is handled appropriately by the correct, experienced person. It HAS to be that way in order to recruit and replace going forward. At the moment it's just such a throwback to the era of "everyone mucks in and does what's needed". That doesn't work anymore and you've next to zero chance of bringing in great candidates when you need staff (assuming you want them to be of a certain standard).

Edited June 1, 2023 by Al B

[welldaft]

It has even been thus at Motherwell FC. Communication with fans is not and never has been a strong point. Yes Flow did it well to the social media audience. But my experience when you have a one on one query. You often don’t get a response at all or the one you do get is baffling and non sensical. 

I know so many fans that have been disillusioned over the years myself included. We come back because we are fans after all. But trust me any other business and I would have left it behind a long long time ago.

I get that the club is probably understaffed in most if not all areas but still. Head of media is great etc. But 1st thing I would do is have a fan engagement Manager or similar who ensures all responses are made within 24 hours, are professional and try to answer the actual issue or question being asked. 

I know fans that have given up on hospitality, season tickets and even the Well Society for various reasons. The amount of money the club must have lost over the years would be frightening .

[eliphas]

13 minutes ago, welldaft said:

It has even been thus at Motherwell FC. Communication with fans is not and never has been a strong point. Yes Flow did it well to the social media audience. But my experience when you have a one on one query. You often don’t get a response at all or the one you do get is baffling and non sensical. 

I know so many fans that have been disillusioned over the years myself included. We come back because we are fans after all. But trust me any other business and I would have left it behind a long long time ago.

I get that the club is probably understaffed in most if not all areas but still. Head of media is great etc. But 1st thing I would do is have a fan engagement Manager or similar who ensures all responses are made within 24 hours, are professional and try to answer the actual issue or question being asked. 

I know fans that have given up on hospitality, season tickets and even the Well Society for various reasons. The amount of money the club must have lost over the years would be frightening .

I've definitely given up on hospitality - not because of communications but the quality is absolutely awful. We tend to go once a year, maybe twice, upgrading the season tickets in the Centenery. Usually just a bit of a bevy but the food has declined year on year. This year it was genuinely worse than you'd get in a wetherspoons I'd say

[Kapowzer]

Was formulating a response then read @Al B post and it pretty much covered everything better than I could.

Flao handed his notice in 6 months ago (at least) we sat on it and Aberdeen pushed the announcement. Regardless we’ve been looking to fill two media positions for over a year.

Evidently the people there have had their positions diluted to cover and our temp CEO while extremely capable is diluting his time at a £8m turnover business with his other commitments.

Can’t remember who said it before all the above isn’t really surprising when the job descriptions are looking for the equivalent of director general of the BBC, Saachi & Saachi head creative and Lord Alan Sugar.

Time the club did what it does with the vast majority of its onfield talent recruitment and appoint people with promise and drive rather than the finished product as we can’t afford the latter. While not ideal and may need a bit of hand holding the former is better than the vacuum that currently exists.

@crazylegsjoe_mfc we discussed the season ticket stuff a few weeks back and we’re none the wiser if the delay in pay at the gate prices is to boost season tickets, hinder them or just firefighting with a water pistol in the Chapman.

[Handsome_Devil]

Aye, the ST thing passed me by as it's not really very relevant personally but 30 seconds thought says asking for an X quid increase while not offering the potential saving to game-by-game is a shocker.

I do have sympathy for the club, it's always a fine line - every extra office job or promotion is money not available for the first team and good luck countering a relegation squad with "but we reply superbly to emails..."!

However, it really feels like we're wobbling too much to the neglect side of the non-playing things ATM (and have been for some time) and a kick in the arse/budget increase is needed.

[Swello]

I agree with pretty much everyone has written above - but I always come back to how few people actually work full time at Fir Park and how much a couple of key vacancies will kill the people that are actually still there filling in, so I'm kind of glad that the current staff aren't really getting a slagging here (and I have to say, my own personal experience of dealing with the club has always been very positive). I also think we need to be realistic in how we balance our budget between the football department and "everything else". Would supporters be happy for example if we paid a median first team starter salary to a brilliant head of media at a cost to the playing squad? (I'll let someone else put that poll up on Steelmen

Both on field and off, there was definitely a period - probably the entirety of 2022 actually -  where Fir Park was the house of bad decisions after being the opposite for a long time (to the point we took it for granted). Lots of key positions were vacated and left unfilled, we dithered over GA, made a huge unforced error with Hammell and went full (un)Lucky Bag with player recruitment. Additionally, bugger all was done with our most pressing strategic priority - ie, to get additional investment to keep us at a competitive budget level and in the league.

The coaching and backroom part of the football dept seems to be in much better shape and it remains to be seen what state we can get the squad in by Aug 31st - but I guess our lack of a permanent CEO is hurting the non-football side as it's unlikely any major decisions will be made without them in place.

 

[Kapowzer]

Question is has this sort of thing gone/goes on at similar sized clubs? (Dundee United and Kilmarnock).

If we’re unique in this then we really need to have a reassessment of the status quo. 

[welldaft]

19 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I do have sympathy for the club, it's always a fine line - every extra office job or promotion is money not available for the first team and good luck countering a relegation squad with "but we reply superbly to emails..."!

The point above is both valid and fair. I suspect (as we all do) that the lack of a CEO has had a direct impact on so many other areas of the club. That and the fact it is widely known we are in line for another hefty loss then I can almost understand them trying to get by with the office / admin  resources available . 

Edit to add…must be off season again if we are discussing admin . 

Edited June 1, 2023 by welldaft

[Swello]

9 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

Question is has this sort of thing gone/goes on at similar sized clubs? (Dundee United and Kilmarnock).

If we’re unique in this then we really need to have a reassessment of the status quo. 

Dundee Utd are literally the worst run club (not) in the league - I'm sure most Arabs would agree that they are the case study into how not to do it and we are not in that bracket by any stretch IMO.

I think we suffered from a bit of "drift"/taking the eye of the ball/whatever you want to call it - and (very similar to the first team) we can't cope if we lose key staff in a short period of time. I don't think anything is fundamentally broken.

I'm hoping that one of the first things on the new guy's to-do list is to look at the structure of the non-playing side with fresh eyes and not be influenced by what's been done in the past. 

[Kapowzer]

30 minutes ago, Swello said:

Dundee Utd are literally the worst run club (not) in the league - I'm sure most Arabs would agree that they are the case study into how not to do it and we are not in that bracket by any stretch IMO.

I think we suffered from a bit of "drift"/taking the eye of the ball/whatever you want to call it - and (very similar to the first team) we can't cope if we lose key staff in a short period of time. I don't think anything is fundamentally broken.

I'm hoping that one of the first things on the new guy's to-do list is to look at the structure of the non-playing side with fresh eyes and not be influenced by what's been done in the past. 

Maybe your confusing me citing Dundee United based on size and turnover and not on capability which is separate.

My point was about if they were adequately resourced and people doing various jobs beyond their remit not if those in the job were adept at it which is a different issue.

[eliphas]

1 hour ago, Swello said:

I think we suffered from a bit of "drift"/taking the eye of the ball/whatever you want to call it - and (very similar to the first team) we can't cope if we lose key staff in a short period of time. I don't think anything is fundamentally broken.

I'm hoping that one of the first things on the new guy's to-do list is to look at the structure of the non-playing side with fresh eyes and not be influenced by what's been done in the past. 

100% agree. I'm generally comfortable with it ticking over now Derek Weir is back in helping. But we do need to get the new chief exec/general manager back in the building

[YassinMoutaouakil]

We could do with a #10.