Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Swello]

18 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

“I think I’m being fair as well – if I don’t see them fitting into the system or what I’m looking to do.

“These guys have know that for a period of time, that doesn’t just fall on their lap one day and they hear, unexpectedly, that they’re not a part of things – that’s something we’ve been working on for a while.

I get strong vibes that Ketts isn't the type of manager that tries to be the players' best mate - I don't think he's shy at dishing out the hard truths.

Also - I honestly love a redemption story more than anyone but I'm quite taken that our main recruitment concept is "players who were shite last season" 

 

[welldaft]

Kettlewell added: “We have to move some players out before we can move anybody in, so we’ve been actively trying to do that.

Crikey still banging that drum. Have to believe we have some leeway now. If we genuinely cannot bring in any players till we move some more players out than we are well and truly fecked .

I saw someone say that Obika might be injured again. No knowledge whether that is true or not. We could maybe play Mugabi up front v East Fife, but to go into the league season with so few forward options is a red flag. Someone would have to sign up and be available for training from Monday latest to be available for league opener even assuming they are fit enough. I have to think we have had a few knock backs along the way, but it is a bit of a mess up front.

Would still take Steven Fletcher but since our budget left is apparently 2 bubblies I assume that he would be looking for more.

[Neil86]

2 minutes ago, welldaft said:

Kettlewell added: “We have to move some players out before we can move anybody in, so we’ve been actively trying to do that.

Crikey still banging that drum. Have to believe we have some leeway now. If we genuinely cannot bring in any players till we move some more players out than we are well and truly fecked .

I saw someone say that Obika might be injured again. No knowledge whether that is true or not. We could maybe play Mugabi up front v East Fife, but to go into the league season with so few forward options is a red flag. Someone would have to sign up and be available for training from Monday latest to be available for league opener even assuming they are fit enough. I have to think we have had a few knock backs along the way, but it is a bit of a mess up front.

Would still take Steven Fletcher but since our budget left is apparently 2 bubblies I assume that he would be looking for more.

Obika is listed in the wee doubtful section of our new pre match thing, as is Sods.

[Onthefringes]

1 minute ago, welldaft said:

Kettlewell added: “We have to move some players out before we can move anybody in, so we’ve been actively trying to do that.

Crikey still banging that drum. Have to believe we have some leeway now. If we genuinely cannot bring in any players till we move some more players out than we are well and truly fecked .

I saw someone say that Obika might be injured again. No knowledge whether that is true or not. We could maybe play Mugabi up front v East Fife, but to go into the league season with so few forward options is a red flag. Someone would have to sign up and be available for training from Monday latest to be available for league opener even assuming they are fit enough. I have to think we have had a few knock backs along the way, but it is a bit of a mess up front.

Would still take Steven Fletcher but since our budget left is apparently 2 bubblies I assume that he would be looking for more.

Is that what he’s saying though? Players having to move out isn’t the barrier those being brought in that some think.

Manager has been open about non contributions. If you are taking him literally it really is a numbers game with squad numbers he wishes to work with. 

[welldaft]

5 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

Obika is listed in the wee doubtful section of our new pre match thing, as is Sods.

Thanks. Hopefully he can make or only a game he misses then if that. 
 

[MP_MFC]

Just before he went off on Saturday he pulled up and was feeling his hammy so I'd guess it's that (again).

We can't go into the season with him as one of our main strikers as he just can't stay fit. 

['WellDel]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

More chat from Ketts.

Pretty much a reiteration of the fact that some (who are under contract and therefore perfectly entitled to do so) have basically been told they have no part to play and should explore other options, but are continuing to sit tight. Sounds on the face of it that he's been more than fair and given them all ample opportunity to prove their worth and some evidently come up short. Take the hint lads and do one, eh? We need your wages for a new, enigmatic striker ffs.

[thisGRAEME]

2 hours ago, dezz said:

Based on this from Scott Burns, McGrath is a non-starter for us. We’ve got Spittal anyway. 

If we turned out to have more 'financial muscle' than Dundee United this would be very very very very funny.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Are folk expecting us to bring in a first choice forward? I'd sort of assumed Wilkinson was the KVV replacement and Obika would continue to play the role he/Mandron did last season. 

I wasn't exactly buzzing at the idea, like, but generally if we sign somebody with Wilkinson's CV- years in League One/Two in England- they tend to be a starter I feel. 

[Swello]

1 hour ago, Onthefringes said:

Is that what he’s saying though? Players having to move out isn’t the barrier those being brought in that some think.

I'm kind of reading it as "we need to sign players" AND "we need to move out guys that don't fit" - they are two separate exercises that ideally will be complete by the end of August. 

If the perfect striker becomes available this afternoon, the club aren't going to say "we'd love to but Barry McGuire is still here".

[eliphas]

2 hours ago, capt_oats said:

More chat from Ketts.

Kind of interested who else he's talking about tbh moving out. 

I'm thinking when he's saying a couple, as ever, it's an easy thing to say rather than meaning exactly two. Also thinking he's probably including Shields in that. 

Who else would he move on.. McGinley? Maguire? One of Lamie or Mugabi? Not that many who jump out now that couldn't work in the formation or haven't really contributed much/anything. 

[dezz]

17 minutes ago, eliphas said:

Who else would he move on.. McGinley? Maguire? One of Lamie or Mugabi? Not that many who jump out now that couldn't work in the formation or haven't really contributed much/anything. 

Aye, I expect Maguire and one of Lamie/Bevis are the prime suspects. You’d think Maguire has Dave, Slattery, Paton, Miller and potentially Butcher ahead of him for 2 midfields spots along with Spittal, so unlikely to get many minutes.

I’d expect our back 3 to be McGinn, Casey, Blaney with Butcher another option when fit with SODS and Mcginley as emergency back up. Having 2 senior CB’s are 4th/5th choice options seems overkill. 

I think Mcginley might hang around with Soare only on a 6month deal and Wilson completely untested at this level. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

County fans will know better than me but I was reading Blair Spittal's wiki page earlier (things are going great for me) and found it interesting-ish that Ketts did sign him initially, but he only got 20 appearances in his first season and was then loaned to League 1 Partick in his second. He only really got going at County once Mckay came in.

I think at the time I assumed he'd been one of his favourites up there so it's maybe noteworthy that Kettlewell has actually seemingly managed to get much better performances out of him here instead.

[capt_oats]

34 minutes ago, eliphas said:

Kind of interested who else he's talking about tbh moving out. 

I'm thinking when he's saying a couple, as ever, it's an easy thing to say rather than meaning exactly two. Also thinking he's probably including Shields in that. 

Who else would he move on.. McGinley? Maguire? One of Lamie or Mugabi? Not that many who jump out now that couldn't work in the formation or haven't really contributed much/anything. 

I'd imagine the club will publish the full presser later for a bit more context but there are some additional quotes in this piece and he kind of clarifies that it's players who he's spoken to about not actually getting as much game time as they might want.

Framed like this you probably get a better idea of who he's spoken to.

Quote

"But there are one or two other players we have spoken to who we feel their game time might be limited.

"I am not going to go into dramatic detail about that but that's where I am very transparent. The first person that hears that is the player."

Also, I'm not sure that the higher staff costs mentioned there are necessarily the cause of the c.£1m loss. Ultimately we were coming off the back of a £3.5m profit so it stands to reason that we'd have spent some of that money on capital expenditure.

Tbh, the way Kettlewell seems to be approaching this window feels like it's pretty much in line with the way that most have been arguing in favour of for ages and if he's trying to maintain a sensible squad size and getting away from the scenarios that Alexander inherited with 35 odd players on the books and he had to deal with after Hammell's January trolley dash then absolutely fair fucks. Crack on Ketts.

Edited July 27, 2023 by capt_oats

[MP_MFC]

1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Are folk expecting us to bring in a first choice forward? I'd sort of assumed Wilkinson was the KVV replacement and Obika would continue to play the role he/Mandron did last season. 

I wasn't exactly buzzing at the idea, like, but generally if we sign somebody with Wilkinson's CV- years in League One/Two in England- they tend to be a starter I feel. 

Ideally, yeah - purely from Obika's fitness point of view (he's appeared in about 30 games since he left St Mirren), I had hoped he would be a rotation piece / offer something different although given the fact we gave him the number 9 suggests he is the starter and any other forward we bring in is likely to be a loan / youngster which is really not a great position to be in given our lack of depth. 

Wilkinson hasn't done anything of note in the two games I've seen of him but it's very early days and there will be a period of adjusting to do but it really feels like we are threadbare in attack without bringing in a couple of more bodies. 

I'm sure Capt's graphic will show it better but currently for our Front 2 we have:
Obika - Injury / Goalscoring ability question

Wilkinson - Unproven, with ability but again seemingly struggled post injury

Efford - Who knows where he is and barring a few game run, would have been punted onto the first plane back to America by most last year pre injury.

With only Ferrie and a couple of other very young prospects in reserve. 
 

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Are folk expecting us to bring in a first choice forward? I'd sort of assumed Wilkinson was the KVV replacement and Obika would continue to play the role he/Mandron did last season. 

I wasn't exactly buzzing at the idea, like, but generally if we sign somebody with Wilkinson's CV- years in League One/Two in England- they tend to be a starter I feel. 

I had wondered about this when we signed Obika.

Like, it feels like Wilko is, in an ideal world, KVV's replacement but as others have said Obika's injury record doesn't suggest he'd be a starter.

With the way Kettlewell seems to be finessing the squad it doesn't seem that wild a shout to think that we might be in a position to bump Obika to a squad role - which given his age and everything else probably sounds about right and that being the case I don't think anyone should really have a problem with?

Similarly I'm wondering if Miller is going to take Tierney's spot in the squad now that Zdravkovski is in the building. I'm all for seeing as much of Miller as we can but he's 16 and putting it all on his shoulders in the Premiership seems an ask.

I could be wrong but this kind of feels like where we are just now and based on the below you'd maybe think that the likes of Maguire, Lamie and Mugabi might have expectations of regular first team games:

Edited July 27, 2023 by capt_oats

[21maxwell]

I actually do think we'll sign a first choice striker.

There's still 5 weeks left in the window, and plenty of domino's that can fall higher up in the food chain, all it takes is the right person to suddenly become available whether that's a late loan, or fallen out of favour in the first month of the season somewhere else (ala Peter Hartley) 

Sure ideally you want your team sorted by the first game, but sometimes patience can be rewarded in the market.

[capt_oats]

42 minutes ago, MP_MFC said:

Ideally, yeah - purely from Obika's fitness point of view (he's appeared in about 30 games since he left St Mirren), I had hoped he would be a rotation piece / offer something different although given the fact we gave him the number 9 suggests he is the starter and any other forward we bring in is likely to be a loan / youngster which is really not a great position to be in given our lack of depth. 

I think there's a distinction to be made on that point tbf.

Is it not more the case that the #9 was available and he picked it rather than us giving him it? 

Ketts clearly seems happy to dish out some home truths to folk but I'd be surprised if he'd have actively blocked a player just back in the building from taking an available shirt.

The obvious comparisons are Wes Fletcher taking the #9 and Moult being left with #20 when they signed and Jordan White taking the shirt leaving Chrissy Long with #99 when he eventually bothered his arse to re-sign.

[Al B]

Kettlewell does very much come across like the kinda guy who would say "it's a fucking number on a t shirt mate, take whatever one you want"

[eliphas]

Just now, Al B said:

Kettlewell does very much come across like the kinda guy who would say "it's a fucking number on a t shirt mate, take whatever one you want"

"It's a fucking number on a t shirt. Which I have to be honest and clear about and say it's up to you but you need to take into account the background of that number and take on what the football club expects of a player wearing that number. I'll be up front about and I think that's what you would expect. We may have to move some numbers about to get more numbers in. But for now, take whatever you want"

Would be more like that i think.