Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Well Fan]

Incidentally, it went south after taking a 2-0 lead against Rangers at Fir Park. Cue bottles flying and mass pitch invasion. 

I hope SK can navigate this horrendous run, but the powers that be, must recruit the correct players during the window. 

SK must also look at a more expansive game. Midfield too slow and zero width. 

Continuation with same tactics/similar players will result in a southerly trajection. Whatever happens, I can only hope for continued top division survival. The next 2 matches are massive. 

[KirkySuperSub]

Yip, it's a shit-show right now...

Let's have a day off from the stress of being a Motherwell fan and we can get back to it tomorrow...

In the meantime, a Merry Christmas to all fellow 'Well fans...

Edited December 25, 2023 by KirkySuperSub

[Handsome_Devil]

Aye, thinking about Motherwell today is not conducive to goodwill and peace to all men... hope everyone enjoys the day!

[Stevie Kirk]

[AdamMFC]

Merry Christmas fellow 'Well fans. Hope you all have a great day

[gannonball]

39 minutes ago, Stevie Kirk said:

I laughed waaaay too much at this.

[capt_oats]

On 24/12/2023 at 19:31, santheman said:

The only worry I'd have about binning Kettlewell is if we had to use monies earmarked to improve the squad on his severance package (assuming we don't have the money to do both)

Unless the club have extended his contract without announcing it then as of next week Kettlewell will have 5 months or whatever of his deal left. Dunno, it would be a surprise if that sort of severance would be a problem in terms of us bringing bodies in.

On 24/12/2023 at 20:25, beesher said:

I’m so confused. Obviously I want us to stay up but I think I would be livid if these imposters start performing again under yet another new manager. 

Just get the fingers out and do the basics well you spineless c***s (I appreciate this isn’t how modern football works.)

I've seen quite a few comments along the lines of "some of these players are on to their 4th manager" or the like. Which is fair comment and, I guess, factually true but to Devils Advocate it there's probably an argument that this is more instructive about the limitations of our recruitment of managers.

It's less about the players themselves and more about us appointing managers who, generally speaking have trouble adapting and/or evolving.

We spend a lot of time talking about the Robinson era on The Thread, understandably because he and McCall have been our longest serving managers over the past 15 years or so. The thing with Robinson that allowed him the time (and the trust) to rebuild was the fact that he was able to change things up. When he realised his 532 Thunderdome had ran its course he pivoted to the Sexy 433 because he had a generational player in DT and just let him cook along with the likes of Campbell, Hastie and Gboly. He let that template run for a while before eventually resigning when he realised he was either a) going to relegate us and our form was damaging his brand or b) going to have to do another rebuild.

Similarly McCall got time because he had more budget thanks to Dempster's zany approach to that sort of thing and also the fact that Rangers had gone out of business and the other city clubs were varying degrees of mince. It was only when the tap was turned off that we dropped like a stone, which refers back to the conversation a while ago that Stuart McCall Wasn't Actually A Very Good Football Manager.

I guess that's it, for a club like Motherwell being able to evolve and keep on top of that is a large part of The Job and it's why you're probably looking at 3 years or so as being an absolute max in terms of shelf life now. Again, to repeat myself we've only had 5 managers have more than 100 games in a single spell since McClean - McLeish, Davies, Butcher, McCall and Robinson (clearly McGhee had more than 100 games over his two stints (150 - combined)).

Since Robinson left we've appointed Alexander who had a genuinely superb 1st year in terms of form/results but was hired out of leagues where you have 24 clubs playing each other twice so the whole emphasis on reinventing the culture at the club probably isn't as great, Hammell who we don't have to re-litigate the fact had never managed or coached at First Team level and now Kettlewell whose trajectory seems to be mirroring his time at County.

In the case of both Hammell and Kettlewell it feels like they were essentially appointed because they were here and willing to do the job rather than them necessarily being good fits for a club like Motherwell (which isn't to underplay the job Kettlewell did up until August).

Even in Robinson’s case, it only became clear he had the skillset to be a good longer term fit once he was actually in the job. Like others his was an initial firefighting brief and IIRC our preferred candidate to succeed McGhee had been Owen Coyle.

Either way, to boil it down, recently we've made short term appointments based on short term needs and are getting short term results - I'm not sure how accountable the players can really be for that.

Edited December 26, 2023 by capt_oats

[Busta Nut]

I think there is a few incredibly harsh shouts at Davor so far. Looks a good player. 

[AdamMFC]

8 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

I think there is a few incredibly harsh shouts at Davor so far. Looks a good player. 

Agreed. I'd say he's one of the few who's got pass marks in recent games.

[JamesP_81]

15 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

I think there is a few incredibly harsh shouts at Davor so far. Looks a good player. 

I know from his half time warm ups that he's pretty adept at pinging 40 yarders under no pressure and loves a smile . Been pretty happy with the other stuff he's shown in the last few games.  

[wellboy1991]

Normally no when I leave a game against the Old Firm my over riding feeling is how much I detest them. 
 

On Sunday and at the moment in general my over riding feeling is that I currently detest our team. Really do not like this current bunch of utter shit tards. 

['WellDel]

After a lovely Christmas day, the daughter and her fiancé have just gone home and the mrs is off to bed. Sitting with a wee dram and some low key jazz in my own wee bubble of reflection and melancholy, so where better to come to lift my spirits than The Thread.

My opinion hasn't changed since yesterday, and I still think Kettlewell's time is more than up. I just cannot see our fortunes changing under him. Aberdeen, for me, will start to climb easily free of the bottom and I can't see our trip there bearing any fruit. Livingston is obviously the big one before the break, but I have zero confidence in us getting the 3 points which are an absolute must. 

I said post-match yesterday that I have no idea who we should go for to replace him and I still don't, but a change needs to be made and it needs to be made now*.

*( I know it's not going to be, that's patently obvious or he would have gone at full time yesterday, but I truly fear our indecision and delay in pulling the trigger will cost us dear).

[RandomGuy.]

6 hours ago, 'WellDel said:

I have no idea who we should go for to replace him and I still don't

Think your criteria should be.

- experience of the league

- experience of using a back 3 set up

- experience of a relegation battle

- experience of getting wins when a team is in poor form

- not currently managing

The next man therefore is an obvious, no brainer, appointment. 

[Casagolda]

Not sure I really agree with the criticism of the squad. 

At the back you’ve got- Kelly, SODS, McGinn, Butcher, Mugabi who have about 800 top flight appearances in Scotland between them. Blaney and Casey aren’t exactly inexperienced kids either. A half decent manager should be able to make at least a semi-competent defence out of that lot, at least 6 of them are fucking full Internationals. 

As for midfield, name a manager in the country that wouldn’t love to sign Lennon Miller? Slattery and Spittal both have genuine quality at this level as well and won’t be short of options this summer either. While Paton has certainly regressed in recent weeks, as above Davor is beginning to look the part. Just like last season, finding the right balance is key. Hint, it doesn’t involve chucking Conor Wilkinson in there during an important relegation 6 pointer. 

Up front, yes it’s all about Biereth. People seem perturbed by that like we should have a plethora of quality forwards at our disposal. Outside maybe Aberdeen or possibly Hibs, name a team that does? Hearts are currently 3rd with Shankland sitting on 15 goals, their 2nd top scorer is on 2. It is what it is, I mean for f**k sake last season if KVV got injured we were relying on Shields or Mandron. 

Is this a vintage Motherwell side? No. Are there obvious gaps and drops off in quality in certain areas? Yes there is. However is it one that is capable of doing better than languishing in 11th, with no wins in 15, the most goals conceded in the league and lowest number of clean sheets? It absolutely is(imho). 

I come back to what I say most weeks, we look a poorly organised side who are far too easy to score against who have no discernible attacking game plan until we go a goal or two down and we invariably chuck the kitchen sink at it. That’s surely a poor reflection of the management team and their coaching abilities.

[capt_oats]

11 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

Not sure I really agree with the criticism of the squad. 

At the back you’ve got- Kelly, SODS, McGinn, Butcher, Mugabi who have about 800 top flight appearances in Scotland between them. Blaney and Casey aren’t exactly inexperienced kids either. A half decent manager should be able to make at least a semi-competent defence out of that lot, at least 6 of them are fucking full Internationals. 

As for midfield, name a manager in the country that wouldn’t love to sign Lennon Miller? Slattery and Spittal both have genuine quality at this level as well and won’t be short of options this summer either. While Paton has certainly regressed in recent weeks, as above Davor is beginning to look the part. Just like last season, finding the right balance is key. Hint, it doesn’t involve chucking Conor Wilkinson in there during an important relegation 6 pointer. 

Up front, yes it’s all about Biereth. People seem perturbed by that like we should have a plethora of quality forwards at our disposal. Outside maybe Aberdeen or possibly Hibs, name a team that does? Hearts are currently 3rd with Shankland sitting on 15 goals, their 2nd top scorer is on 2. It is what it is, I mean for f**k sake last season if KVV got injured we were relying on Shields or Mandron. 

Is this a vintage Motherwell side? No. Are there obvious gaps and drops off in quality in certain areas? Yes there is. However is it one that is capable of doing better than languishing in 11th, with no wins in 15, the most goals conceded in the league and lowest number of clean sheets? It absolutely is(imho). 

I come back to what I say most weeks, we look a poorly organised side who are far too easy to score against who have no discernible attacking game plan until we go a goal or two down and we invariably chuck the kitchen sink at it. That’s surely a poor reflection of the management team and their coaching abilities.

Exactly this.

[welldaft]

1 hour ago, Casagolda said:

I come back to what I say most weeks, we look a poorly organised side who are far too easy to score against who have no discernible attacking game plan until we go a goal or two down and we invariably chuck the kitchen sink at it. That’s surely a poor reflection of the management team and their coaching abilities.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to disagree with this viewpoint. I have said before I want Kettlewell to succeed because he seems like a decent chap, he clearly has had success before and more than all of that I would rather we were not in the market for yet another Manager !

All that said failure to win any of the next 3 games or garner 3 points and he should be gone and I do believe he will be. 

I just wish we had the wherewithal to get KVV back. Him and Biereth up front . 

I suspect the reality is that Aberdeen or Hearts cash in on Miovski or Shankland respectively and then spend £1m on Kev with a surplus of £2m or thereabouts. Hearts would hate to lose Shankland but signing the big mad Dutchman would probably be as close as they could get to an acceptable replacement. That would hurt and probably will

Edited December 26, 2023 by welldaft

[Swello]

14 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

I think there is a few incredibly harsh shouts at Davor so far. Looks a good player. 

The fact that Davor has been stuck on the bench and was literally the last option when everyone else in ML1 had been tried actually reflects badly on Kettlewell's judgement. He acts like an experienced player on the park and as far as I can see has barely made a mistake. Of course he needs time to settle in but he was never given that and we are only seeing it happen now. I think he'll be a first choice pretty soon (doubly so after watching Paton through my fingers on Sunday).

The "too wee" shouts are lazy too - he can handle himself fine but of course he's going to get knocked about by a 6foot2 bruiser at times, the same as every other midfielder at the club save for Butcher.

 

[ropy]

I still think we are a team that needs 12 players.  We criticised the attack until we realised that they had scored plenty of goals.  We are now criticising the defence for being the leakiest of leaky things.  The issue is probably the midfield.  Do we need 4?  Do the wingback provide enough support across the middle? Is the defence being protected? Is there any creative skill in there providing support to the attack?

Maybe we need 13.

[ropy]

Obviously the Livingston game is key both to end the run we are on and because of the timing of it before a break.  We are capable of winning it.  But I am very aware that on any day any team can lose a winnable game, it happens.  It would be devastations if it happened to us.  We are already off course for my point a game season.

I wonder if Lennon Miller’s knee hadn’t clipped the Livi player if all of this would have been different.

Sliding doors.

[Swello]

2 hours ago, Casagolda said:

Not sure I really agree with the criticism of the squad. 

At the back you’ve got- Kelly, SODS, McGinn, Butcher, Mugabi who have about 800 top flight appearances in Scotland between them. Blaney and Casey aren’t exactly inexperienced kids either. A half decent manager should be able to make at least a semi-competent defence out of that lot, at least 6 of them are fucking full Internationals. 

As for midfield, name a manager in the country that wouldn’t love to sign Lennon Miller? Slattery and Spittal both have genuine quality at this level as well and won’t be short of options this summer either. While Paton has certainly regressed in recent weeks, as above Davor is beginning to look the part. Just like last season, finding the right balance is key. Hint, it doesn’t involve chucking Conor Wilkinson in there during an important relegation 6 pointer. 

Up front, yes it’s all about Biereth. People seem perturbed by that like we should have a plethora of quality forwards at our disposal. Outside maybe Aberdeen or possibly Hibs, name a team that does? Hearts are currently 3rd with Shankland sitting on 15 goals, their 2nd top scorer is on 2. It is what it is, I mean for f**k sake last season if KVV got injured we were relying on Shields or Mandron. 

Is this a vintage Motherwell side? No. Are there obvious gaps and drops off in quality in certain areas? Yes there is. However is it one that is capable of doing better than languishing in 11th, with no wins in 15, the most goals conceded in the league and lowest number of clean sheets? It absolutely is(imho). 

I come back to what I say most weeks, we look a poorly organised side who are far too easy to score against who have no discernible attacking game plan until we go a goal or two down and we invariably chuck the kitchen sink at it. That’s surely a poor reflection of the management team and their coaching abilities.

All of this. I've got a theory that the fact that the support hasn't completely turned on the players as has usually happened in the past during these shite runs is because people have a similar view to the above. Normally things would be way worse at games than they are currently (0 points out of 6 this week and I think that changes though).

Managers and players always make a thing of the lack of patience in football - I think our support as well as our Board have been unusually patient so far - so those accusations won't wash this time whatever happens next.