JamesP_81 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Definitely had the feeling of a match we were trying to win with the minimal possible effort. Pretty sure we have a few more gears we can go up and I can get why this was the exact kind of match that you want to get more minutes in the legs rather than going for it and risking some more stupid injuries. Not that bothered with he result as was enjoyable to get down right behind the goals for the novelty of a shoot-out. A few takeaways from last night :- The Ox didn't have much to do but what he did he done well and looked fairly assured when he came and plucked a few crosses out the air. That goalline clearance is 100% a goal with Kelly in the sticks. Gordon looks good , very vocal which I think our backline needs. Was impressed with Robinson's touch and hold up play , would be good if I dunno , we had another forward on to feed off of that Miller is class. Paton definitely has something on Ketts. Looks energetic and dangerous going forward untill he actually gets the ball then kills the attack stone dead. First live viewing of it and decided I actually really like that kit on the pitch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casagolda Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said: The interview was both spot on and at a complete disconnect to him being the one who picked that formation and midfield. Very much this. Hard to have much sympathy with a manager who plays Paton and Halliday as his two ‘10’s’ and then bemoans the lack of quality and creativity in the final third. Last night was definitely grim but it was essentially still last seasons team sans Spittal, Bair and Gent- our 3 most creative attacking players last season. Only 2 new additions started, Gordon who didn’t really put a foot wrong and Robinson who was hard to judge as he was basically starved of support or service. We’ve played 180 mins and I don’t think we’ve really learned anything so far that we didn’t already know about Kettlewell or any of the players. Edited July 17 by Casagolda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayWell Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 There is a lot to like about Kettlewell, he is clearly a good coach and the players like/respond to him, however I still think there is a question mark over him as a tactician. I get his preferred approach is the box of four in the middle with wing backs, and in a number of league games that will suit us. My main concern with the refusal to move away from it is in games like last night where we'll dominate possession or when we're chasing a league game and a team puts every man behind the ball to hold a lead. Surely these types of games are where you start with a different system to try something new and then revert to type if it's not working out. Two games in, and five points from six in this group, so I think it's important that we avoid hyperbole and calling folk "the worst players ever", but I was baffled at how long Paton got last night. He's not an absolutely terrible player, but he's never an attacking midfielder. Every time we had a bit of speed in our build up he slowed it right down again, so frustrating. Robinson looks to be a great talent, but again the system had him dropping so deep to make anything happen, leaving us relying on defensive players to be the creative spark. Positives? Lennon Miller makes football look so easy. What a talent. Robinson looks good. Gordon was solid and a real organiser. Nice to get along to Montrose, had never been. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allroy for Prez Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 We know it’s all about getting minutes, but why are Halliday and Paton getting the lions share and both at the same time? Both of these guys being first picks and being played at the same time is going to kill us. In the 2 cup games Paton has got 74 and 78 minutes and Halliday 65 in both! My main worry is the team is being built round these 2. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 5 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said: My main worry is the team is being built round these 2. The team is absolutely, definitely being built around Lennon Miller. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allroy for Prez Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 7 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said: The team is absolutely, definitely being built around Lennon Miller. That would be the best option, but if he’s sold this summer? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 1 minute ago, Allroy for Prez said: That would be the best option, but if he’s sold this summer? Why would he be? We're in no rush to now that Bair's gone and he's in no rush to leave because he knows this is the best place for him to develop. Even if he is, we're quids in more than we are already and can probably afford to spend a bit of it on a replacement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazylegsjoe_mfc Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 It does concern me that Kettlewell wasn't able to see that 3-5-2 wasn't as effective when Furlong & Johnston went, the same way he now doesn't see 3-4-2-1 won't be as effective in the absence of Bair & Spittal. If there was to be a focus on 3-4-2-1 this season, then we should have had more a recruitment focus on players to play in the "2", as currently I would say you would only describe that as the best place for Nicholson from our current team. It really frustrates me that there's no horses for courses with Kettlewell. Even last night, his moves were to replace central midfielders who looked out of place as 10s, with strikers who looked out of place as 10s. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 3 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said: The team is absolutely, definitely being built around Lennon Miller. I actually had this convo privately the other day and I think, while understandable to an extent, it's actually quite risky. When Turnbull was the man, you had worker bees and he'd wally it into the net. If you had McFadden, he'd score or set up 100% chances. Miller, in contrast, doesn't and in his current position, won't. He'll certainly tip the balance of games towards us but in terms of winning, there's way too many more potentially weak links in the chain to rely on him creating goals. He can play all the stunning cross-field through balls he wants but if they go to SOD or Wilson, who promptly cross it into the stand, the impact on the goals for column is limited... Ofc, it's ridiculous panicking when we're struggling in a system which needs both pace out wide and a genuine 10 when all three of those guys are injured...which is why my concern, which we'll only know is justified by autumn, is less the actual performances from the last two games than SK's attitude and approach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedrics Mighty Well Army Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 25 minutes ago, MurrayWell said: There is a lot to like about Kettlewell, he is clearly a good coach and the players like/respond to him, however I still think there is a question mark over him as a tactician. Shoe-in for the Engurrlund job, then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vietnam91 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 The conundrum managers have at this stage of the season is using the League Cup as glorified friendlies with a tiny bit of jeopardy thrown in. We're not going to win the league and while final placing can bring Europe, Cup progression is key to us. It is also another of the three factors that affect our financial fortunes. Games like that really should be as much about improving our goal difference as minutes in the legs. That result last night has meant we're probably going to be unseeded, Hibs showing with a 5-1 win over Queen's Park what needs done. Airdrie got an 8-0 win over East Kilbride. I genuinely wonder if Ketts would have started a game vs EK as a 5-4-1 too. The fact we can't say for certainty no, is worrying. Comments last night and today that the players only came to life at the equaliser and our inability to see out any game without conceding are lessons we all hoped would have been learned by now. Both of those were major factors in the overall malaise that was last season. If in a post match presser said he was looking to develop parts of Paton or Halliday's game and to trust the process there may be a modicum of patience since he's earned it with Bair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 2 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said: If in a post match presser said he was looking to develop parts of Paton or Halliday's game and to trust the process there may be a modicum of patience since he's earned it with Bair. Saying that about Paton would have raised an eyebrow but possibly, Halliday is 33 in a couple of months - he'd get sectioned for claiming he was the project to be a 10 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Surely he's not signing another striker- taking us to 4 in the squad- to then play one up front all season? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil86 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Don't think Sods or Wilson had a bad game, but they didn't affect the game as much as they could/should have. I don't recall too many balls into the box from either. Everything we done was quite narrow, Robinson dropping deep, No support, ball goes back, rinse and repeat. A lot of sideways passing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 33 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said: The team is absolutely, definitely being built around Lennon Miller. I keep seeing /hearing people say this but I don't see any evidence of it. There is no one for him to pass to further up the field. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vietnam91 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 4 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said: Saying that about Paton would have raised an eyebrow but possibly, Halliday is 33 in a couple of months - he'd get sectioned for claiming he was the project to be a 10 100%, I don't think Halliday offers much at all but saying he's getting game time in a position he's not played regularly in the past few year to offer a backup/cover may help mitigate the tsunami of criticism he's getting. 3 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: Surely he's not signing another striker- taking us to 4 in the squad- to then play one up front all season? You underestimate the number of personnel required to throw bodies on in the last 10 minutes to earn a draw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said: I actually had this convo privately the other day and I think, while understandable to an extent, it's actually quite risky. When Turnbull was the man, you had worker bees and he'd wally it into the net. If you had McFadden, he'd score or set up 100% chances. Miller, in contrast, doesn't and in his current position, won't. He'll certainly tip the balance of games towards us but in terms of winning, there's way too many more potentially weak links in the chain to rely on him creating goals. He can play all the stunning cross-field through balls he wants but if they go to SOD or Wilson, who promptly cross it into the stand, the impact on the goals for column is limited... Ofc, it's ridiculous panicking when we're struggling in a system which needs both pace out wide and a genuine 10 when all three of those guys are injured...which is why my concern, which we'll only know is justified by autumn, is less the actual performances from the last two games than SK's attitude and approach. I agree with all of that. There are some (gaping) holes in the tactics right now. Not to be too disparaging to Ketts but if we can see how fucking uselessly they are being implemented, why can't he? He's definitely restricted by a lack of personnel right now; I said earlier that of the back three that started last night I only expect one of them to start regularly; Gordon. That's the same for the wing backs and the 10s; SODs and Wilson shouldn't be starting regularly if that's the standard of width and running they provide. SODs did better in the second half because the ball was actually given to him; he made numerous runs in behind in both halves that weren't exploited - particularly by Casey chopping back in and passing it sideways to Gordon or Blaney. We just weren't at the races in terms of exploitative/incisive passing. You'd expect Nicholson to start at 10 over both Paton and Halliday when he's fit, alongside Stuparevic (or him playing as a shadow/support striker to Robinson or Moses) or Callachan/another to be signed. 13 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: I keep seeing /hearing people say this but I don't see any evidence of it. There is no one for him to pass to further up the field. Yeah, which I think is the problem we're all speaking about in slightly different ways; perhaps I should change that to the team should be getting built around Miller but it hasn't being done effectively thus far. Edited July 17 by StAndrew7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFadden Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 I cannot do another season of watching Harry Paton. He is a backup player at best and playing him in an attacking midfield position is horrendous from Kettlewell. The system is rotten and we are badly missing any sort of creativity. I would say please sign some wingers but Kettlewell is too stubborn to ever concede that his system is utterly gash. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real-name-hidden Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 2 hours ago, Bakero said: I’ve been really impressed with the hard work and good humour you’ve shown in defeating Barmack’s “investment offer”, and now “toast Stonehenge” has made me proper burst out laughing. Well done all round Motherwell fans, you’re a great bunch of folk. As a gesture of your gratitude, £10 a month to the well society and we’ll keep you entertained for life… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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