Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Swello]

1 minute ago, David1979 said:

I agree with much of that.

There's a lot more that goes into the appraisal of a manager's performance than just league position. As you mention, bringing in younger players from the youth setup is important, as is being able to coach our current players to a level where at least one or two of them can bring in a few million quid in transfer fees.

Kettlewell bringing in Bair and developing him to a level where we could move him on for the money we received is a huge positive for him. He also worked pretty well with Van Veen, and his performances under Kettlewell helped secure a decent fee as well.

League position is obviously the most important measure of success, even if it isn't the only one. For me, we should be pushing for the top six every season where possible. Sure, 10th place is a minimum finish, and while I can accept that maybe once every five seasons or so, we shouldn't be making a habit of it.

Kettlewell has seen 7th and 9th place finishes thus far. Certainly not too bad, but I'd be looking for us to push on this season and at least challenge for the top six. A 7th or 8th place finish is acceptable if we've been in the race for the top six in the lead-up to the split.

The thing with the top six is that, by rights, we should see Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts, and Hibs take five of the six places. I'd throw Dundee United in there as well, but they've been a bit inconsistent at the top level of late.

By my reckoning, that leaves one place open to the rest of the league, barring a bit of a collapse by one of the Edinburgh two or Aberdeen, which has been known to happen. There's no reason why we can't be challenging for that.

St Mirren, Killie, and Dundee United will also fancy their chances.

I think it's important that we don't get suckered into thinking that a bottom 6 finish alone is some kind of abject failure/reason to sack someone - because for (probably) the most mid-table club in the history of the top flight - a normal season will often see us in 7th or 8th as much as it would 5th or 6th. I think where we are 10th or 11th, it's probably a different discussion.

I'm fully onboard with taking coaching ability and moving academy players through the ranks into account but the performance of the first team - especially at home - is going to be the standard by which any manager is ultimately judged. Last season, our home form was fucking abysmal and we spent an inordinate amount of time watching the team behind in games (usually after a soft goal conceded early on) and that has an effect on everyone's perceptions. 

[capt_oats]

45 minutes ago, DerekWatson said:

I hope I'm not speaking out of tongue but given you mentioned the Exec Board comment which was made in a video posted through the official club channels that referenced that the Society board think we should invest X in our media team, I thought it may be appropriate to reply to that.

Firstly, the time and effort that Scott and Ally (and now Euan) do to deliver consistent media output shouldn't be sniffed at. I think we've got a great team there who are working long hours and do very very well - Ally is incredible at what he does and has produced excellent content for MFC over a number of years now. That said, I was previously vocal about the need to recruit a replacement Head of Comms following the departure of both AB and GR so I didn't necessarily appreciate that public comment which felt like a slight dig. That said, my opinion hasn't changed and again, that's not a dig at the current crop.

In my opinion the Head of Comms is one of the most important roles at a football club, away from the playing squad and CEO. Our media team, in my opinion, needs more people. Our social output, again in my opinion, is one of the biggest opportunities we have to grow commercial income. Without sounding like a previous potential investor, with an effectively implemented social media marketing strategy we could drive growth both locally and globally, but more importantly we could develop deeper relationship with our fans and local partners. There's huge potential there and it wouldn't be fair to put more work on an already stretched team. I feel previously we had a very good content plan that resonated with our target audience and aligned with the club's values and brand. We've still got that to an extent but it could be better with someone a more strategic and targeted focus. For me it's not that the content we're putting out that I think could be improved, but how we better monetise that output or how we attach more commercial opportunities to it; player sponsors showcased each time said player scores, match sponsor logos on the starting 11 graphics, etc. etc. 

I certainly don't think you're speaking out of turn there Derek.

In fact, I'd say you and I are very much aligned with our takes. 

What I should add, for clarity, is that my post above (and others on this topic in The Thread) shouldn't be read as digs at Scott, Ally or Euan (on the off chance they happen to visit). For avoidance of doubt I think they do a great job in terms of the content creation side of things.

Clearly I don't know what discussions were as I wasn't in the room when the topic of replacing GR came up but from the outside looking in it feels like there's been a lack of appreciation and understanding of the role and its value on the part of certain members of the Executive Board.

Which I'd guess is quite relatable for any of the people in this thread who work in creative industries.

We're talking about different skillsets so it doesn't necessarily follow that someone who is talented at content creation will also be a good copywriter and from the outside looking in it feels as if the team (who, as you say, are stretched thin as is is) are being asked to double up in a way that isn't particularly helpful.

I'm kind of repeating myself a bit here, but for me as a fan owned club having clear comms with stakeholders (the fans) is hugely important and having someone with experience of telling our story adds value.

It's been mentioned on here before but it feels like a lot of what the club were doing when AB and GR were at the club influenced *a lot* of other clubs in Scotland. It's just a very weird energy that some of those on the Executive Board didn't see the value of what they were doing.

Edited July 30 by capt_oats

[Vietnam91]

1 minute ago, Swello said:

I think it's important that we don't get suckered into thinking that a bottom 6 finish alone is some kind of abject failure/reason to sack someone - because for (probably) the most mid-table club in the history of the top flight - a normal season will often see us in 7th or 8th as much as it would 5th or 6th. I think where we are 10th or 11th, it's probably a different discussion.

I'm sure we're the 5th best performer in the top league (in terms of placing) since the split was introduced, helped by the fact we've never dropped out of it. 4th if you discount Sevco.

[Cloontang]

33 minutes ago, MP_MFC said:

Just saw Killie are charging away fans £30 this year for an adult. 

That's mental. I believe we've frozen our prices but curious to see the rest of the league's pricing. £30 for any league game is scandalous.

Bowie trying to recoup some of that Van Veen cash back. We ended up footing the bill for their jolly to Tenerife after that game getting postponed in the fog. 

[Swello]

37 minutes ago, MP_MFC said:

Just saw Killie are charging away fans £30 this year for an adult. 

That's mental. I believe we've frozen our prices but curious to see the rest of the league's pricing. £30 for any league game is scandalous.

Since I started going, I've always loved going to away games - probably more than home games actually - but at £30, I'm out. 

I think for Central Belt clubs especially, away supporters are one of the best ways to increase your matchday revenues when your home support stubbornly stays quite static. Away supports tend to get treated like shite and no-one ever does *anything* to encourage them - it's just seems mental that it's never mentioned.

500 hundred extra home supporters per week is better than 500 away supporters but those away supporters could be a nice bonus while you are trying to convert the locals...

[Busta Nut]

Pricing is getting fucking insane.

[Swami]

Doesn’t help that Rugby Park is one of the worst stadiums to sit in. I can f**k my knees up for nothing rather and paying 30 quid for the privilege. I’ll probably still go, right enough, because I’m a fanny. 

[Ceiling Granny]

2 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

That's it for me exactly...to make myself sound very hypocritical, there are some differing opinions which can be tolerated - encouraged, in fact, as @StAndrew7says - but others are just so fundamentally contradictory to basic principles of an organisation, in this case the WS, there needs to be consequences.

I certainly don't see the need to call an EGM to bin him but he along with the other two need to go as soon as timing allows with a new structure and people in place.

Re the are we happy now with Lindsay and Caldwell remaining in place - short answer is yes. Club employees actually running the place as professionals have a different status to others and as long as we trust them to operate in good faith, we're not going to go to the considerable expense and reputational risk of firing them.

I agree.  It’s entirely possible however that some people putting themselves forward for the well society board will hold similar views towards investment as Feeley, and may even make similarly poor decisions/choices.  I don’t know how you avoid/mitigate for this. 

[standupforthemotherwell]

17 minutes ago, Ceiling Granny said:

I agree.  It’s entirely possible however that some people putting themselves forward for the well society board will hold similar views towards investment as Feeley, and may even make similarly poor decisions/choices.  I don’t know how you avoid/mitigate for this. 

Do they not usually have hustings for well society elections? "Can all candidates please give their opinion on the previous takeover offer and whether they would have accepted it"

[Handsome_Devil]

17 minutes ago, Ceiling Granny said:

I agree.  It’s entirely possible however that some people putting themselves forward for the well society board will hold similar views towards investment as Feeley, and may even make similarly poor decisions/choices.  I don’t know how you avoid/mitigate for this. 

The legalese is beyond me but I would hope there are ways of tightening the AoA to prevent office bearers acting against the fundamental existence of the organisation, e.g. I've not looked but I can't imagine you can run for the board of the NRA while wanting to ban guns. Similarly there should be hurdles and then due removal procedures in place for running for office in an organisation devoted to fan ownership and then attempting to end fan ownership.

I would forgive virtually all poor choices made in good faith but, ignoring the valuation etc, Feely approved the initial deal which dropped the Society to a minority stake and excluded them from active decisions in the boardroom. You simply cannot continue to hold office after that, it's not a disagreement over strategy, it's acting in direct opposition to the whole raison d'etre of the Society and an insult to everyone who has coughed up hundreds or thousands of pounds in pursuit of that cause.

[well fan for life]

There is not a game of football I would pay £30 to watch in this league. Wild pricing.

[Gianfranco]

Aye £30 is ridiculous. Im still raging the east stand got above £20.

I quite enjoy Killie away as well. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Prices are obviously mental across the board but I honestly think games on plastic pitches should be capped at a lower price than ones on grass.

[ropy]

McGinn, Sparrow and Kaleta getting a run out tonight.

[tonicg]

Two former players in the East Stirlingshire side. Sam Campbell who was sent out on loan to Annan but failed to make an appearance for our first team and Morgaro Gomis. Mind him? 

[Cloontang]

I see Partick's request for a replay of the LC game has been rejected.

[Vietnam91]

Appreciate the media team have been getting a lot of rightful plaudits on here today.

However, who thought it would be a good idea to announce Stama like the stranger you've synchronised your pee schedule with in a nightclub corridor?

[ropy]

The young boys are better at penalties but not good enough.

[capt_oats]

12 hours ago, tonicg said:

Two former players in the East Stirlingshire side. Sam Campbell who was sent out on loan to Annan but failed to make an appearance for our first team and Morgaro Gomis. Mind him? 

I hadn't seen the East Stirlingshire teamline last night but I wondered if it was Gomis. He still has his quite distinctive playing style and he scored his penalty with a Panenka dink.

Fwiw, I thought it was an enjoyable enough game (for a 0-0). #YoungMotherwell were tidy, got the ball in decent areas and created a few good chances but in the end didn't really force any saves from their keeper although there was one good effort that hit the bar.

Assuming Mikey Booth was #8 (going by the boy sat a couple of rows in front of me who was giving a running commentary calling all the players by their first names) "Mikey" looked good in midfield.

Tbh, there weren't any of the Young Team who looked out of place although Ferrie has a definite Craig Moore/Bob McHugh sort of "Motherwell Academy striker" energy about him.

Also, got a sighting of Tam Sparrow in the wild and he was...fine. Got about the park, kept the ball moving. Absolutely not a solution to our creativity but he wasn't tripping over the ball or anything.

Clocked Liam Kelly sat with the first team who were in attendance (SOD, Halliday, Slattery, Miller, Blaney, Seddon, Koutroumbis, Stamatelopolous, Connelly - there may have been others I missed).

[tonicg]

I liked the look of Zack Flatman who played in the middle of the back 3. Seemed really comfortable on the ball and tried to play intelligent passes. 

Luca Ross went off with a head knock early on and was replaced by Nathan Lawson who was born in 2008. I think he was the youngest on the pitch but had some nice touches and should've scored at least 2.

 

2008.....deary me.