Ayr United, What now 2016/17

[honestly united]

10 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

Every other Ayr manager has been expected to conjure up the players that were required at the time, it's actually quite bewildering how McCall appears to be beyond reproach amongst the Ayr faithful.

Difference being that in league one just about anyone would have improved the squads we have.

I dont think McCall is perfect, and think he has made mistakes, we are once again over loaded with centre mids when we are crying out for a proven goal scorer and someone to give the team width. Also he was probably over cautious in not clearing out a few more players that aren't quite up to the level required for the championship. He's also gambled probably a good chunk of what was left in the kitty to get Harkins in, and gave a contract to O'Connell as a panic measure as we didn't have enough options up top. Thomas looked good on paper (Welsh U-19 international, just signed up fairly big club) but was a disappointment and got punted, and Moore's been injured since the season kicked off.

 

But i'd rather have McCall in charge and in a position of winning our next two games and be on 22 points at the half way stage of our first season back in the championship, rather than being worried about being relegated into League 2.

I think there will be some movement in January, so wont start panicking until then

[ayrmad]

11 minutes ago, honestly united said:

Difference being that in league one just about anyone would have improved the squads we have.

I dont think McCall is perfect, and think he has made mistakes, we are once again over loaded with centre mids when we are crying out for a proven goal scorer and someone to give the team width. Also he was probably over cautious in not clearing out a few more players that aren't quite up to the level required for the championship. He's also gambled probably a good chunk of what was left in the kitty to get Harkins in, and gave a contract to O'Connell as a panic measure as we didn't have enough options up top. Thomas looked good on paper (Welsh U-19 international, just signed up fairly big club) but was a disappointment and got punted, and Moore's been injured since the season kicked off.

 

But i'd rather have McCall in charge and in a position of winning our next two games and be on 22 points at the half way stage of our first season back in the championship, rather than being worried about being relegated into League 2.

I think there will be some movement in January, so wont start panicking until then

Reid was routinely slaughtered for not having the right players in place in the Championship.

McCall's certainly not perfect, some of his substitutions or lack of them were bewildering on Saturday.

What has league 2 got to do with this season, Reid got us here twice and done fcuk all, McCall's got us here and we're on the verge of doing f**k all again, forget the wouldacouldashoulda crap about the next 2 games, we've managed 2 points and 3 goals in our last 6 games, that's what I'm judging on not fantasy football.

Regardless of any movement in January pointing out Ayr's shortcomings is not panicking it's being pragmatic and objective.

Some will say adding a striker won't matter as we don't create enough but we'll never know until we sign a player that knows where to go when others are bearing down on the box, it's like watching headless chickens in the box at times when Devlin & Co are heading for the box..

[pandarilla]

Every other Ayr manager has been expected to conjure up the players that were required at the time, it's actually quite bewildering how McCall appears to be beyond reproach amongst the Ayr faithful.

So two wrongs do make a right?

In your response to heathrowaufc on the last page you literally do suggest he should conjure someone up out of thin air.

You're also not just pointing out the shortcomings - you're demanding criticism of the manager for them. Every ayr fan can see that up front is one of our biggest problem areas. We've got strikers but they've not been good enough so far. Bringing in the first striker you can regardless of quality would not be good management; it would be desperation.

[honestly united]

20 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

Reid was routinely slaughtered for not having the right players in place in the Championship.

McCall's certainly not perfect, some of his substitutions or lack of them were bewildering on Saturday.

What has league 2 got to do with this season, Reid got us here twice and done fcuk all, McCall's got us here and we're on the verge of doing f**k all again, forget the wouldacouldashoulda crap about the next 2 games, we've managed 2 points and 3 goals in our last 6 games, that's what I'm judging on not fantasy football.

Regardless of any movement in January pointing out Ayr's shortcomings is not panicking it's being pragmatic and objective.

I mentioned League 2, as we are not long pasted staring relegation to it in the face.

So its fantasy football to say if we win the next 2 games (which are the ones that matter most against the 2 teams below us) would see us in a really good position at the half way mark of the season, but its not to say we've only picked up 2 points in the last 6 and ignore the rest of the season which see's us sitting in 8th (on goal difference). In the last 6 games we have lost to the top 4 teams, and picked up draws against the teams in 5th and 7th away from home. 

Granted its not great form, but its not bad either. The next 2 games are the most important ones.

[ayrmad]

1 hour ago, pandarilla said:

So two wrongs do make a right?

In your world everyone might be beyond reproach, that's not the place I populate.

In your response to heathrowaufc on the last page you literally do suggest he should conjure someone up out of thin air.

No, I'm looking for him to seek out a striker, if that's from thin air then so be it, that's his job,I'm certainly not coming on here and letting McCall's shortcomings slide just because everyone thinks he's a safe pair of hands, he's the best for ages blah blah blah, I'm judging him on what I see and it's not what a lot of others appear to see, we sign a midfielder with a bit of class and put players in front of him that couldn't read him if you gave them a manual.

You're also not just pointing out the shortcomings - you're demanding criticism of the manager for them.

It's not demanding criticism it's wondering why there's not much when every other manager has received their share.

Every ayr fan can see that up front is one of our biggest problem areas. We've got strikers but they've not been good enough so far. Bringing in the first striker you can regardless of quality would not be good management; it would be desperation.

Nobody has suggested we bring in the 1st available striker, I've certainly not heard anything that suggests we're out pursuing strikers every week never mind take the 1st one that appears.

 

[ayrmad]

24 minutes ago, honestly united said:

I mentioned League 2, as we are not long pasted staring relegation to it in the face.

So its fantasy football to say if we win the next 2 games (which are the ones that matter most against the 2 teams below us) would see us in a really good position at the half way mark of the season, but its not to say we've only picked up 2 points in the last 6 and ignore the rest of the season which see's us sitting in 8th (on goal difference). In the last 6 games we have lost to the top 4 teams, and picked up draws against the teams in 5th and 7th away from home. 

Granted its not great form, but its not bad either. The next 2 games are the most important ones.

League 2 is history, we're in the 2016/17 season.

I've spent a lifetime saying if we do this and we do that, that's fantasyland.

I've not ignored the rest of the season, 4 wins  5 draws 7 losses 15 for 29 against the last time,4 wins 4 draws 8 losses 13 for 23 against this time, not exactly stellar stuff.

It's not who we've played it's how many points we're leaving on the pitch against them that counts, Dundee United were as poor as we're going to see them this season and we still scored zero.

2 from 18 is bad form.

[HeathrowAUFC]

Every other Ayr manager has been expected to conjure up the players that were required at the time, it's actually quite bewildering how McCall appears to be beyond reproach amongst the Ayr faithful.

Completely understand your frustration but unless McCall is hiring a unit in the Kyle Centre & inviting the good people of South Ayrshire to swap their litres of tap cooncil juice for the equivalent in Rioja, I don't think McCall does miracles.

McCall is far from reproach, there is no McCall amnesty, just a healthy dose of reality. Our last visit to the Championship is completely incomparable to the situation we find ourselves in now. Different manager. Different players. Different budget. Different expectations. I think we covered this comparison elsewhere though.

[diegomarahenry]

Being level with Dunfermline in 7th place, 3 points away from the team in 6th is still probably higher than most Ayr fans thought we would be, 2 wins could see us sixth after the first half of the season, which doesn't warrant McCall getting abuse. 

We lose the next two games, against the two teams below us and then to a QOTS team in freefall we will end the year bottom and I am sure that the knifes will be out for McCall. 

[Butch Coolidge]

Interested as to what form this agreed level of McCall criticism should take.

Booing from the terraces? On here? Shut him in a big cage suspended above the North terrace until he brings a striker in and that striker has scored 5 goals? Or maybe a really wee cage?

Criticism rarely helps.

[itzdrk]

16 minutes ago, Butch Coolidge said:

Interested as to what form this agreed level of McCall criticism should take.

Booing from the terraces? On here? Shut him in a big cage suspended above the North terrace until he brings a striker in and that striker has scored 5 goals? Or maybe a really wee cage?

Criticism rarely helps.

The word striker written on his back in lighter fluid and set ablaze  

[AUFC 1910]

McCall has a vision and a plan for Ayr and he wants to be at the helm. That in itself is 2 steps ahead from most previous managers.

He appears to be reasonably good at what he does. He also is committed and wants the best for the club. Again, a couple of steps ahead.

If we piss him off and lose him, we are fu*ked big style. We would drop like a stone and would end up back to where we were under Roberts.

Back him, judge him on his record so far, which is pretty damn good.

We are all frustrated as we know we could have maybe done even slightly better with a top front man, but we don't have one, and they don't grow on trees, and they cost money, and we are propped up by the Chairman.

Think of where we were as opposed to where we could be. Steady progress is what is needed.

Crowds had dropped to 800 or less home fans. 1300 on Saturday, there is progress.

We were dancing with relegation to the 4th tier of Scottish football not too long ago, we are now holding our own in the bottom to middle of the 2nd tier, that is progress.

Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say, and neither will a mainstay championship club, which is what we initially aim to be.

We are on the up with McCall, no matter who or what way you look at him. Trust in him. Back him. We need to keep him. He has brought us success and will deliver a sustainable championship club.

[HeathrowAUFC]

FWIW if the squad isn't bolstered over the coming weeks, with the personnel at his disposal, I think it's screaming out for a 3-5-2.

Sometimes despite a manager's best intentions, he just doesn't have the players for a certain system. We lack width but if we played Boyle & Devlin as proper wing backs who got forward in support, we'd have more options in midfield and hopefully a regular supply of crosses into the box and more bodies in the opposition's final third.

With everyone fit, I'd obviously have Fleming in goal, 3 centre halves of Meggatt, Balatoni & McKenna if his loan is extended until the end of the season. Boyle & Devlin as wing backs, Doc & Adams protecting in midfield with Harkins playing ahead of them as a playmaker. Moore up front alongside either McGuffie or Forrest both of whom who'd have a free role along the 18 yard box.

Easy on the sofa though.

[ayrmad]

19 hours ago, AUFC 1910 said:

McCall has a vision and a plan for Ayr and he wants to be at the helm. That in itself is 2 steps ahead from most previous managers.

He appears to be reasonably good at what he does. He also is committed and wants the best for the club. Again, a couple of steps ahead.

I've not heard or read anyone saying different, I'm actually hoping he stays long after he's had his managerial stint to help put down firm foundations for the club going forward.

If we piss him off and lose him, we are fu*ked big style.

That just sounds pathetic, I certainly don't think he's that weak a guy that he'd bolt due to a few folk on an internet forum asking for him to sign a striker.

We would drop like a stone and would end up back to where we were under Roberts.

Aye,if we signed a shite manager again.

Back him, judge him on his record so far, which is pretty damn good.

His record is good but like Reid it's only a few bad results away from turning (we were 4 points off 4th with 10 games to go in this division under Reid, it was seemingly laughable that I thought we could have been in the top 5 that season).

We are all frustrated as we know we could have maybe done even slightly better with a top front man, but we don't have one, and they don't grow on trees, and they cost money, and we are propped up by the Chairman.

Nobody is disagreeing with any of that but I've never been nor will I ever be a stump up and shut up kind of guy.

Think of where we were as opposed to where we could be. Steady progress is what is needed.

Crowds had dropped to 800 or less home fans. 1300 on Saturday, there is progress.

Nah, if you only use his starting point all the time then we've just to put up with anything as long as we're better than that point.

We were dancing with relegation to the 4th tier of Scottish football not too long ago, we are now holding our own in the bottom to middle of the 2nd tier, that is progress.

Similar to 2011/12.

Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say, and neither will a mainstay championship club, which is what we initially aim to be.

And the lack of a striker is seriously jeopardising that, if the worst came to the worst and we go back down this season there's nothing that the board or manager could do or say that will bring fans back short of redeveloping Somerset.

We are on the up with McCall, no matter who or what way you look at him.

So far.

Trust in him. Back him.

I think he's had a decent time of it from the fans.

We need to keep him. He has brought us success and will deliver a sustainable championship club.

Here's hoping.

 

[pandarilla]

FWIW if the squad isn't bolstered over the coming weeks, with the personnel at his disposal, I think it's screaming out for a 3-5-2.

Sometimes despite a manager's best intentions, he just doesn't have the players for a certain system. We lack width but if we played Boyle & Devlin as proper wing backs who got forward in support, we'd have more options in midfield and hopefully a regular supply of crosses into the box and more bodies in the opposition's final third.

With everyone fit, I'd obviously have Fleming in goal, 3 centre halves of Meggatt, Balatoni & McKenna if his loan is extended until the end of the season. Boyle & Devlin as wing backs, Doc & Adams protecting in midfield with Harkins playing ahead of them as a playmaker. Moore up front alongside either McGuffie or Forrest both of whom who'd have a free role along the 18 yard box.

Easy on the sofa though.

That team looks good, other than left wing back. Is Boyle capable of that role?

I think old man Murphy would be better in a back 3. He would have more freedom to nip in and read the game, without having to worry as much about runners in behind.

[pandarilla]

Can I ask, is ayrmad a big Brian Reid fan?

[ayrmad]

25 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Can I ask, is ayrmad a big Brian Reid fan?

No, glad to see the back of him after his last season.

[pandarilla]

No, glad to see the back of him after his last season.

Then have you ever been happy with the manager?

[ayrmad]

25 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

Then have you ever been happy with the manager?

 

I was quite happy with Reid until he decided to play mustn't lose football against the lesser lights in the Championship that season and his shameful tactics at Hampden.

Apart from him and McCall so far we've not had many worth talking about for a long while.

I take it you're just happy with any old shite going with your line of questioning.

1991–1993	George Burley
1993–1995	Simon Stainrod
1995–2002	Gordon Dalziel
2002–2004	Campbell Money
2004–2005	Mark Shanks
2005–2007	Bobby Connor
2007	Neil Watt
2007–2012	Brian Reid
2012–2014	Mark Roberts[6]
2015–	Ian McCall

There's what the under 30's have had to put up with at Somerset, we've had more than our share of shite, we must be the unluckiest club in the country, we get the cash and give it to a clown.

[eez-eh]

Were those same tactics "shameful" when they saw us past Hearts and St Mirren?

[ayrmad]

27 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

Were those same tactics "shameful" when they saw us past Hearts and St Mirren?

I certainly don't remember the Hearts game being all about defending.

A big difference when you've 10,000 there against your arch rivals, it's one of those games that keeps them in the house nowadays, who can blame them.