djchapsticks Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Fife Saint said: You get the sense its more personal than that for him rather than being a business decision. Oh definitely. I don't get the impression St. Johnstone is the destination Martindale has in mind but if they really wanted him, there's not a lot Livi could do to prevent that contact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Center half said: It was always going to be rejected by the board, no one would allow a manager to leave to a rival so simple answer is to reject it! Ball is in Davie court if he actually wants it however i do not think he will as he has previously said. Sorry, I mean more that if Martindale's remaining contract is worth, say £100k and Saintees pony up the full lot, that means Livi can't knock it back and St. Johnstone can basically buy it out, Livi knocking it back at that point would be purely symbolic. Isn't that how it works? I always thought it was. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmouth Strikes Again Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Center half said: Thought this was a busy night for you Bozo. Chapping on doors up Ardler! No on a St Johnstone fans forum! Wind your neck in pumpkin head. Thank you. eta It's also not a Perth dimwits forum. Edited October 31, 2023 by Bigmouth Strikes Again -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLIS Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: Sorry, I mean more that if Martindale's remaining contract is worth, say £100k and Saintees pony up the full lot, that means Livi can't knock it back and St. Johnstone can basically buy it out, Livi knocking it back at that point would be purely symbolic. Isn't that how it works? I always thought it was. He's working without a contract as is, it was never renewed. The new owner was talking about a long term deal for him though. He doesn't want to leave, he's always gave a blanket answer of 'speak to the guys upstairs'. If they say no, it's a no. Even if the contract was bought out it'd still be a no, he's just going with what they say. His quote that he always puts out is that he's 'at Livi, until those upstairs say he isn't anymore'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJFCtheTeamForMe Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: Sorry, I mean more that if Martindale's remaining contract is worth, say £100k and Saintees pony up the full lot, that means Livi can't knock it back and St. Johnstone can basically buy it out, Livi knocking it back at that point would be purely symbolic. Isn't that how it works? I always thought it was. I imagine Martindale is grateful if the opportunity Livi have given him so isn't willing to force a move, especially to Saints. Loyalty works both ways It's not like a move to Saints is life changing. If it was a better move no matter what the Livi fan is telling you though he'd be forcing it through. He's not just going to stay because the club say so. Edited October 31, 2023 by SJFCtheTeamForMe 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 You just have to see the reaction of some of our support to even being linked to Martindale to see why hes cautious about taking any step away from Livingston. He'll be hounded from day one bt sections at virtually every other club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Center half Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 33 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: Sorry, I mean more that if Martindale's remaining contract is worth, say £100k and Saintees pony up the full lot, that means Livi can't knock it back and St. Johnstone can basically buy it out, Livi knocking it back at that point would be purely symbolic. Isn't that how it works? I always thought it was. Yes it probably is how it normally works! I do get the sense that here is it different Martindale looks to me a bit like he needs the board to tell him to go/speak to others ! i don't think he will do anything on his accord TBH. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Center half Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 36 minutes ago, Bigmouth Strikes Again said: Wind your neck in pumpkin head. Thank you. eta It's also not a Perth dimwits forum. Was that your party piece tonight Bonzo! how much did you make? Not a Perth forum correct St Johnstone forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 59 minutes ago, SJFCtheTeamForMe said: I imagine Martindale is grateful if the opportunity Livi have given him so isn't willing to force a move, especially to Saints. Loyalty works both ways It's not like a move to Saints is life changing. If it was a better move no matter what the Livi fan is telling you though he'd be forcing it through. He's not just going to stay because the club say so. The only way a move to a club like St. Johnstone (or most other clubs in the league) is going to be attractive to a guy like Martindale is if he's allowed to permeate the entire club culture the way he has been at Livingston. Staying at Livi and bring able to run more or less the entire show, is a better proposition than going to a comparatively marginally bigger club like St. Johnstone, Killie or St. Mirren but having nothing like the freedom and influence throughout the fabric of the entire club. If a club like St. Johnstone could or would offer him that and the time to implement it, he'd likely be tempted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theyellowbox Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Respect to Martindale for the way he has handled this. On the pitch, it's a sideways move at best at the moment, but I suppose Saints would be able to offer a bigger wage and more stability than Livi. Unlike most other clubs in the league, if he wanted, he'd get near total control of footballing matters, maybe not as much overall as at Livi, but still more than average. There must have (and maybe still is) part of him thst is tempted. Like Tommy Wright, you can stay too long at a club at this level and turn down offers that might not seem immediately advantageous. Consider too that if he completely wants to move on from the discussions on his past, he probably needs to expand his managerial background. More to saints (or similar), be a success and he could find himself stepping up sooner rather than later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJFCtheTeamForMe Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Who do you reckon? Spoiler Dean fucking Sheils 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coventry Saint Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 12 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: You just have to see the reaction of some of our support to even being linked to Martindale to see why hes cautious about taking any step away from Livingston. He'll be hounded from day one bt sections at virtually every other club. I thought 'caution' was what came across loud and clear from that interview he did, when asked about McLean/the job. He talked a lot about job security, and I don't think he was just referring to McLean. He's pretty much the only unsackable manager in the top flight, if not the whole of Scotland. Would he fly closer to the sun at this stage? The flip side is, perhaps he knows this season isn't going the same as previous. Maybe he's sick of propping up Livingston. Maybe he feels he might finally be sackable at Livi. FWIW I think you'll get him, and I think he'll keep you up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, djchapsticks said: Sorry, I mean more that if Martindale's remaining contract is worth, say £100k and Saintees pony up the full lot, that means Livi can't knock it back and St. Johnstone can basically buy it out, Livi knocking it back at that point would be purely symbolic. Isn't that how it works? I always thought it was. I don't think that is correct. I mean it might make Livi change their mind but legally that wouldn't wash as an automatic right. I'm not entirely sure what Livi fans mean when they say he is 'working without a contract'. Unless he is volunteering then he has a contract of employment. Edited November 1, 2023 by Alert Mongoose 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Center half Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 21 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said: I don't think that is correct. I mean it might make Livi change their mind but legally that wouldn't wash as an automatic right. I'm not entirely sure what Livi fans mean when they say he is 'working without a contract'. Unless he is volunteering then he has a contract of employment. It does seem a strange set up there at the minute, even talk of Martindale paying players out of his wages?. I would think it will depend how bad the Board of directors want him and how much they are prepared to spend to get him. The regime in the St Johnstone board the now are back again to not really spending money on transfer type fees i personnaly cant see any movement on that front. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankChickens1 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 36 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said: I don't think that is correct. I mean it might make Livi change their mind but legally that wouldn't wash as an automatic right. I'm not entirely sure what Livi fans mean when they say he is 'working without a contract'. Unless he is volunteering then he has a contract of employment. Yes but you can have a verbal or ad hoc contract perfectly legally. More likely they mean he's on a rolling continuation of a previous expired contract, terminable by either party. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Alert Mongoose said: I don't think that is correct. I mean it might make Livi change their mind but legally that wouldn't wash as an automatic right. I'm not entirely sure what Livi fans mean when they say he is 'working without a contract'. Unless he is volunteering then he has a contract of employment. Not everyone has a contract of employment - some folk are happy to work without one and rely on employment law to protect their rights. I do agree though that an employee's contract cannot automatically be bought out by a new employer. Plenty of examples where senior folk in companies leave but are prevented from working for a new employer for XYZ period of time as stated in their contract even a new employer would be happy to pay off the contract. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 hour ago, hk blues said: Not everyone has a contract of employment - some folk are happy to work without one and rely on employment law to protect their rights. Not disputing this but I'm a bit confused. Say Livi only paid him a salary of £100 when he would (per the 'contract') due to be paid £10,000. Unless he has a contract of employment to refer to how would employment law protect him? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooj Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said: Not disputing this but I'm a bit confused. Say Livi only paid him a salary of £100 when he would (per the 'contract') due to be paid £10,000. Unless he has a contract of employment to refer to how would employment law protect him? There's all sorts of principles like 'custom and practice' and any court would test whether an individual had a reasonable expectation to receive a certain payment. If you have been turning up to work and receiving a certain amount into your bank account every month over a period of time, and then that just changed to a much smaller amount, no-one would suggest that the employer has acted reasonably. Also, I think there may be assumptions about T&Cs continuing when a contract ends but the individual remains in post. And even for fixed term contracts there are processes that an employer must follow to end that individual's employment. [not a lawyer] 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Dooj said: There's all sorts of principles like 'custom and practice' and any court would test whether an individual had a reasonable expectation to receive a certain payment. If you have been turning up to work and receiving a certain amount into your bank account every month over a period of time, and then that just changed to a much smaller amount, no-one would suggest that the employer has acted reasonably. Also, I think there may be assumptions about T&Cs continuing when a contract ends but the individual remains in post. And even for fixed term contracts there are processes that an employer must follow to end that individual's employment. [not a lawyer] All sounds fair enough. Though to be fair if I was going to put myself in that situation, I'm not sure Livingston FC would be my preferred employer... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLIS Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 9 hours ago, Alert Mongoose said: I don't think that is correct. I mean it might make Livi change their mind but legally that wouldn't wash as an automatic right. I'm not entirely sure what Livi fans mean when they say he is 'working without a contract'. Unless he is volunteering then he has a contract of employment. His last one expired and we've kept it rolling monthly, he said he wasn't bothered and would've preferred that the club sorted out the takeover first 9 hours ago, Center half said: It does seem a strange set up there at the minute, even talk of Martindale paying players out of his wages?. I would think it will depend how bad the Board of directors want him and how much they are prepared to spend to get him. The regime in the St Johnstone board the now are back again to not really spending money on transfer type fees i personnaly cant see any movement on that front. He isn't paying players out of his own wage, not a clue where that's come from. We've said he's not going and I'd expect it to be the end of the matter - I can't see it developing any further 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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