Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[shibbydoo]

Was impressed with both the new boys up front - they both have something about them.

Good to see Clark back.

Connor Smith looks like he has potential.

Mitov is a fucking legend.

A good afternoon in Dingwall despite it being fucking Baltic.

 

[derektaylor84]

Michael Stewart refusing to give any credit to Craig Levein here.

 

 

www.youtube.com/@DerekTaylor84

[Fife Saint]

Michael Stewart is an utter fanny.

[The Saintee]

What happened between him and Levein?

[Radford]

There is no doubt that Levein has got results. We've got 20 points from 14 games since MacLean was sacked, season form that's 33 points which puts you up there with Killie and St Mirren. He's only lost to the Old Firm and away at Hearts and Killie in the league. Folk will point out also how close we are to the top six.

But it's hard to get your head around because we are still so rubbish. This is the worst Saints team, IMO, in two decades. They make attacking looking so difficult and struggle to build any sort of possession. The width issue was better yesterday but still there for was no one with an ability to worry an opposition full back.

I appreciate we've been blessed with the teams put together from Coyle up to the double winners, but having to accept this being what have we to look forward to is s struggle, i can't lie. Can only hope that Levein intends to put far more of a mark on things.

[Broon_100]

12 minutes ago, Radford said:

There is no doubt that Levein has got results. We've got 20 points from 14 games since MacLean was sacked, season form that's 33 points which puts you up there with Killie and St Mirren. He's only lost to the Old Firm and away at Hearts and Killie in the league. Folk will point out also how close we are to the top six.

But it's hard to get your head around because we are still so rubbish. This is the worst Saints team, IMO, in two decades. They make attacking looking so difficult and struggle to build any sort of possession. The width issue was better yesterday but still there for was no one with an ability to worry an opposition full back.

I appreciate we've been blessed with the teams put together from Coyle up to the double winners, but having to accept this being what have we to look forward to is s struggle, i can't lie. Can only hope that Levein intends to put far more of a mark on things.

I think you have to look at Saints in the perspective of the entire league and for me the standard has dropped off a cliff.

Motherwell, Hibs, Aberdeen, Livingston and Ross County will all be saying this is their worst team in decades. Even the much lauded St Mirren, Killie and Hearts don't actually worry you when playing them, same with the OF. Given how bad we are, even small improvements are enough to start climbing the league because it's that bad.

Watching some highlights from when Saints beat Rangers 25 years ago and the quality of player on the pitch, for both teams, was night and day to what we have now.

Completely agree that the standard of Saints attacking play is brutal but at least with him bringing some pace into the team we might be able to get teams on the back foot. We'll need to work with our CMs to get them to move the ball into the final 3rd quicky though otherwise it's pointless having pace. 

[johnoswald2712]

40 minutes ago, Radford said:

There is no doubt that Levein has got results. We've got 20 points from 14 games since MacLean was sacked, season form that's 33 points which puts you up there with Killie and St Mirren. He's only lost to the Old Firm and away at Hearts and Killie in the league. Folk will point out also how close we are to the top six.

But it's hard to get your head around because we are still so rubbish. This is the worst Saints team, IMO, in two decades. They make attacking looking so difficult and struggle to build any sort of possession. The width issue was better yesterday but still there for was no one with an ability to worry an opposition full back.

I appreciate we've been blessed with the teams put together from Coyle up to the double winners, but having to accept this being what have we to look forward to is s struggle, i can't lie. Can only hope that Levein intends to put far more of a mark on things.

If you look at Levein’s teams over the years this is what they are and as we all know a leopard doesn’t change its spots. 
 

If Levein puts far more of a mark on things, it will be more of the same defensive turgid uninspiring stuff. Only positive I can take is he gets results but it’s absolutely brutal to watch 

[perthsaint1977]

His Dundee united team once he got it his way was pretty easy on the eye and played some lovely attacking football. 

Same with Hearts. Think we need to let him keep us up, gut this entire squad and rebuild it with better younger players which will allow him a bit more flexibility in formations etc. 

He's not been scared to change games to a back 4, a diamond etc, unfortunately we just do not have the individual players to pull it off.

[Valentino Bolognese]

6 minutes ago, johnoswald2712 said:

If you look at Levein’s teams over the years this is what they are and as we all know a leopard doesn’t change its spots. 
 

If Levein puts far more of a mark on things, it will be more of the same defensive turgid uninspiring stuff. Only positive I can take is he gets results but it’s absolutely brutal to watch 

I'm not so sure that this is the case though, based on signings so far.

McLean (at first) was talking in the media about front-foot attacking and exciting football. Then signed players who were not that.

By contrast, Levein with the reputation he has, has recently signed mostly strikers and the last two are noted as being rapid. In the midfield he's given space to more progressive players and with Keltjens we've also got a player that looks to like getting up the park and taking people on. We're even seeing our wing-backs in scoring positions in the box.

Now that's not to say he can't suck all the joy out of a game - clearly he can and 1st half vs Aberdeen showed that but I would say that he's smart enough to see that there's little defensive pace in this league and quick strikers and rapid countering is a winning approach. I do have a worry that this could send him down the long ball route.

On another note, with Dhanda going, if County go down and if avaialble, who would be worthwhile taking from that side? Would Simon Murray improve us? Possibly, remains to be seen. Brown might be an upgrade on Keltjens but again, we don't really know yet. I thought Harmon looked OK. Point being, I've just never bought into the 'worst squad in the league' narrative. To me it's probably the strongest of the current bottom 4, which gives me bit of hope.

[Kyle]

1 hour ago, Radford said:

There is no doubt that Levein has got results. We've got 20 points from 14 games since MacLean was sacked, season form that's 33 points which puts you up there with Killie and St Mirren. He's only lost to the Old Firm and away at Hearts and Killie in the league. Folk will point out also how close we are to the top six.

But it's hard to get your head around because we are still so rubbish. This is the worst Saints team, IMO, in two decades. They make attacking looking so difficult and struggle to build any sort of possession. The width issue was better yesterday but still there for was no one with an ability to worry an opposition full back.

I appreciate we've been blessed with the teams put together from Coyle up to the double winners, but having to accept this being what have we to look forward to is s struggle, i can't lie. Can only hope that Levein intends to put far more of a mark on things.

I don't disagree with any of this, but we've brought in Levein when we've got a poor squad filled with dead wood and with the club going through a period of cutting back the budget because of the horrific mismanagement by those previously at the club all whilst marooned at the bottom. I wanted a wide player in the window but seems Levein prioritised other things, feel he's earned the right to make that decision given where we are with this squad. 
 

This season is all about staying up for me, by any means necessary. I won't hold that view next season when the incompetent squad building will more or less be washed away but I think Levein and Kirk have earned the right to build a squad that's more exciting and can take games to teams more than the one we currently have is capable of. 

[RandomGuy.]

I hate the 5-2-3/5-2-2-1 shape when you dont have a wide CB getting up the park and wing backs taking people on. But Levein seemed to make it clear the back 3 stays because the CB options are paceless and he doesnt seem to trust Gordon in a back 4 (which is interesting, as he always dropped out instead of Kerr or McCart under TW when the shape changed). Guess the plan is "protect the CBs, use pace up front to counter", and when it doesnt come off we'll look clueless? 

If we could get a defence similar in profile to the double winning one, with a Kerr type in there charging forward and pace in the wing back positions, i think it would look completely different. As suddenly we'd be able to open up more and worry less about being countered. I think there will be an attempt at that in the Summer.

Have been wondering if Kerr Smith is here for 5 months to get used to everything then we'll loan him again for next season if Levein/Kirk stay, and he'll replace McGowan with Considine replaced by a quicker LCB.

Big thing with Levein is he seems to have clearly planned for the January window, and known exactly what he wanted. Id be amazed if they dont already have a list of targets for the Summer and know roughly who'll be leaving and who they want to stay too.

We desperately need a season where we're safe by the end of February/March, and have a plan in place before the Summer window opens with ideally some players already approached. It looks roughly like Levein is on track to do that.

A season or two of rubbish, not losing, football to help stabilise the club and get us back on track is fine. We need to stop this changing everything every window, and build foundations again like Coyle did all those years ago, but this time its in a higher division. Was the squad as overloaded with shite back then too?

Edited February 4 by RandomGuy.

[The Marly]

15 minutes ago, perthsaint1977 said:

His Dundee united team once he got it his way was pretty easy on the eye and played some lovely attacking football. 

Same with Hearts. Think we need to let him keep us up, gut this entire squad and rebuild it with better younger players which will allow him a bit more flexibility in formations etc. 

He's not been scared to change games to a back 4, a diamond etc, unfortunately we just do not have the individual players to pull it off.

Yes, I agree. Levein has built some good football teams at previous clubs and might well do so with Saints. 

But he once played a 4-6-0 formation and some people are not willing to let that go. I feel Johnoswald is one of them. 

[The Marly]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I hate the 5-2-3/5-2-2-1 shape when you dont have a wide CB getting up the park and wing backs taking people on. But Levein seemed to make it clear the back 3 stays because the CB options are paceless and he doesnt seem to trust Gordon in a back 4 (which is interesting, as he always dropped out instead of Kerr or McCart under TW when the shape changed). Guess the plan is "protect the CBs, use pace up front to counter", and when it doesnt come off we'll look clueless? 

If we could get a defence similar in profile to the double winning one, with a Kerr type in there charging forward and pace in the wing back positions, i think it would look completely different. As suddenly we'd be able to open up more and worry less about being countered. I think there will be an attempt at that in the Summer.

Have been wondering if Kerr Smith is here for 5 months to get used to everything then we'll loan him again for next season if Levein/Kirk stay, and he'll replace McGowan with Considine replaced by a quicker LCB.

Big thing with Levein is he seems to have clearly planned for the January window, and known exactly what he wanted. Id be amazed if they dont already have a list of targets for the Summer and know roughly who'll be leaving and who they want to stay too.

We desperately need a season where we're safe by the end of February/March, and have a plan in place before the Summer window opens with ideally some players already approached. It looks roughly like Levein is on track to do that.

A season or two of rubbish, not losing, football to help stabilise the club and get us back on track is fine. We need to stop build foundations again like Coyle did all those years ago, but this time its in a higher division. Was the squad as overloaded with shite back then too?

Oh yes, Connolly signed a right load of shite.  But he also signed Sheerin and Ando, so it wasn't all bad. Much the same as Macca really, Mitov and Smith are good signings. 

[tree house tam]

10 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

On another note, with Dhanda going, if County go down and if avaialble, who would be worthwhile taking from that side? Would Simon Murray improve us? Possibly, remains to be seen. Brown might be an upgrade on Keltjens but again, we don't really know yet. I thought Harmon looked OK. Point being, I've just never bought into the 'worst squad in the league' narrative. To me it's probably the strongest of the current bottom 4, which gives me bit of hope.

Simon Murray is a right ugly, manky Dundee fucker who has properly fucked legs but yet still looks far more dangerous than Chris Kane and Stevie May. I'd rather we didn't but if he came in as the 4th or 5th choice striker then I'd be okay with that. Mainly because our other four would be better.

[DC92]

58 minutes ago, Broon_100 said:

Motherwell, Hibs, Aberdeen, Livingston and Ross County will all be saying this is their worst team in decades. Even the much lauded St Mirren, Killie and Hearts don't actually worry you when playing them, same with the OF. Given how bad we are, even small improvements are enough to start climbing the league because it's that bad.

Hibs and Aberdeen have had plenty similar or worse teams over the last couple of decades and Livingston were lower league strugglers only a few years ago. The standard of the league is shite but it has been for ages.

Watching Levein's most recent Hearts team was soul-destroying aside from a couple of months in 2018. Some of the most clueless, boring football I've seen, so I'm not surprised it's a hard watch for you guys.

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, DC92 said:

Watching Levein's most recent Hearts team was soul-destroying aside from a couple of months in 2018. Some of the most clueless, boring football I've seen, so I'm not surprised it's a hard watch for you guys.

Are we watching a Levein side though? Or an Andy Kirk side?

[DavidReid01]

27 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I hate the 5-2-3/5-2-2-1 shape when you dont have a wide CB getting up the park and wing backs taking people on. But Levein seemed to make it clear the back 3 stays because the CB options are paceless and he doesnt seem to trust Gordon in a back 4 (which is interesting, as he always dropped out instead of Kerr or McCart under TW when the shape changed). Guess the plan is "protect the CBs, use pace up front to counter", and when it doesnt come off we'll look clueless? 

If we could get a defence similar in profile to the double winning one, with a Kerr type in there charging forward and pace in the wing back positions, i think it would look completely different. As suddenly we'd be able to open up more and worry less about being countered. I think there will be an attempt at that in the Summer.

Have been wondering if Kerr Smith is here for 5 months to get used to everything then we'll loan him again for next season if Levein/Kirk stay, and he'll replace McGowan with Considine replaced by a quicker LCB.

Big thing with Levein is he seems to have clearly planned for the January window, and known exactly what he wanted. Id be amazed if they dont already have a list of targets for the Summer and know roughly who'll be leaving and who they want to stay too.

We desperately need a season where we're safe by the end of February/March, and have a plan in place before the Summer window opens with ideally some players already approached. It looks roughly like Levein is on track to do that.

A season or two of rubbish, not losing, football to help stabilise the club and get us back on track is fine. We need to stop this changing everything every window, and build foundations again like Coyle did all those years ago, but this time its in a higher division. Was the squad as overloaded with shite back then too?

Agree with everything here, and the point made further down the thread. It finally seems like we’ve had a window where there was a plan on which positions needed signed but also the profile of player for each position.

Hopefully we can start to plan for next season sooner rather than later.

 

The Smith loan is a strange one, Levein has been quite open he’d need to work his way into the team, so it seems strange for Villa to let him go somewhere on loan where in all honesty it looks like he may not feature much. It’s either A. Panic loan after Robinson went, or B. Long term loan for next season too where he’s expected to come in and start.

[John Bonham]

2 hours ago, Radford said:

There is no doubt that Levein has got results. We've got 20 points from 14 games since MacLean was sacked, season form that's 33 points which puts you up there with Killie and St Mirren. He's only lost to the Old Firm and away at Hearts and Killie in the league. Folk will point out also how close we are to the top six.

But it's hard to get your head around because we are still so rubbish. This is the worst Saints team, IMO, in two decades. They make attacking looking so difficult and struggle to build any sort of possession. The width issue was better yesterday but still there for was no one with an ability to worry an opposition full back.

I appreciate we've been blessed with the teams put together from Coyle up to the double winners, but having to accept this being what have we to look forward to is s struggle, i can't lie. Can only hope that Levein intends to put far more of a mark on things.

I think tbh you have to look at the quality of the whole league. It’s so very poor and imo has dropped considerably in last 2/3 years. The teams around and above us are just as bad, the standard of the OF has dropped considerably etc. 

Appreciate everything you say but quite honestly the entire league stinks

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, Broon_100 said:

I think you have to look at Saints in the perspective of the entire league and for me the standard has dropped off a cliff.

Motherwell, Hibs, Aberdeen, Livingston and Ross County will all be saying this is their worst team in decades. Even the much lauded St Mirren, Killie and Hearts don't actually worry you when playing them, same with the OF. Given how bad we are, even small improvements are enough to start climbing the league because it's that bad.

To add to @DC92's post, this is nowhere near the worst Motherwell team in decades.

[Kyle]

Goalkeepers 

Dimitar Mitov - 2025

Dave Richards - 2024 - on loan from Crewe Alexandria 

Ross Sinclair - 2026

Jack Wills - 2024 

 

Defenders/wing backs

James Brown - 2024 - free to leave 

Olusadare Olufunwa - 2025

David Keltjens - 2025

Sam McClelland - 2025

Ryan McGowan - 2024 

Liam Gordon - 2024

Kerr Smith - 2024 - on loan from Aston Villa

Andy Considine- 2024

Liam Parker - 2024 - on loan at Edinburgh City

Callum Booth - 2024  - on loan at Spartans 

Luke Robinson - 2024 - on loan from Wigan

Tony Gallacher - 2024

 

Midfielders/wingers

Drey Wright - 2024

Fran Franczak - ??

Diallang Jaiyesimi - 2024 - on loan from Charlton Atheltic 

Sven Sprangler - 2025

Connor Smith - 2025

Max Kucheriavyi - 2025

Daniel Phillips - 2024

Cammy McPherson - 2024

Matt Smith - 2025

Ali Crawford -2024

Cammy Ballantyne - 2024 - free to leave 

Alex Ferguson - 2025 - on loan at Queen of the South

Graham Carey - 2024

 

Attackers

Stevie May - 2025

Nicky Clark - 2025

Chris Kane - 2024

Benjamin Kimpioka - 2025

Adama Sidibeh - 2026

Taylor Steven - 2024 - on loan at Alloa Athletic